Gay Smithies - Once and for All

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
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<p>
[quote]
This is not intended to be a put down of Colgate, but simply my own opinion. I would much rather have my D attend Smith, who openly has some gay/bisexual students, rather than attend other schools with huge drinking issues that are out of control.

[/quote]
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<p>Well it was a put down of Colgate, and doesn't reflect what's going on on that campus these days (old reputations die hard). The Colgate administration has been paying a lot of attention to campus life and culture, with results that make some old alums unhappy. As a parent of a Colgate kid, I like what's going on. I wish my own alma mater would be as thoughtful and proactive about these issues.</p>

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<p>Ahem. Mini, if anything, binge drinking rarely occurs at Colgate. Okay, maybe there were probably some episodes over the Spring Party Weekend last weekend...</p>

<p>Back on the topic- ah, yes, my house didn't smell any different on Sunday mornings... No breakfast though :( Additionally, I have to point out that it's actually illegal in Northampton to have beer cans and bottles on the lawns! or so my HR said to us.</p>

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<p>Agreed! I think from what I know from a distance, Colgate is at least wrestling with these issues at a level not seen among most of the northeastern non-urban LACs. </p>

<p>I haven't seen any new data from there recently, but it will be interesting to see how effective the new initiatives are.</p>

<p>(Ahem. Mini, if anything, binge drinking rarely occurs at Colgate. Okay, maybe there were probably some episodes over the Spring Party Weekend last weekend...)</p>

<p>Hate to break it to you, TMP, but the data collected by the school itself (as part of the Harvard School of Public Health Survey) indicates you have been staying in your room too much (it's well higher than the national average, though only average among northeastern LACs) ;) (That's why the new initiatives, which I think are terrific.)</p>

<p>At any rate, my first statement still stands. In fact, it isn't close.</p>

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<p>True! Just too wise to comment! ]]</p>

<p>Lol---After a very short time of dating a Smithie, one very quickly learns you can demonstrate your brilliance much more by what you /don’t/ comment about.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Well it was a put down of Colgate

[/quote]

NO!!!! It Wasn't!!! Notice how I mentioned "rather than attend other schools with huge drinking issues that are out of control". Don't be so sensitive! I tried to clarify it because Colgate was mentioned in another thread. I know nothing of Colgate, therefore have no opinion on the matter. However, Mini does!</p>

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<p>I mentioned "rather than attend other schools with huge drinking issues that are out of control"]]</p>

<p>My previous comment about beer in the dorms was about an urban campus. We also visited a top rural LAC the day before Thanksgiving. Because it was almost a holiday there weren’t too many kids on campus, but we ran across a couple of women who were kind enough the have a conversation with us. Long story short, they showed us their dorm suite. Littered everywhere were hard liquor bottles. It’s absolutely amazing what one can discover on unannounced visits.</p>

<p>This is the same college were numerous women soccer players, including the captain, were arrested for serving underage students.</p>

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<p>Of course that may be just because you are only dealing with half a sampling. That is, there are no men at Smith. National studies of alcohol have found that women are less likely than men to drink or to be heavy drinkers than men. So the lower drinking rate at Smith may have nothing to do with anything except the fact that there are only women there.</p>

<p>An interesting question might be... what about the rate of binge and heavy drinking amongst the lesbians at Smith?</p>

<p>According to research done in Chicago and elsewhere in the U.S., lesbians and bisexual women are more likely than heterosexual women to drink. Some of the reasons include fewer roles and responsibilities—such as parenting—that tend to limit heterosexual’s women’s drinking; fewer cultural norms that discourage drinking; greater reliance on bars for socialization; and stress related to societal stigma and discrimination. These factors make drinking an important lesbian health concern.</p>

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<p>Yes, ticklemepink, the combined numbers are what gives Smith the reputation. I saw "58% straight" of the seniors and thought, "Just over half are straight." That means that, unless you are number crunching, it will appear as though Smith is half lesbian. This is why Smith has that reputation. </p>

<p>Likewise, it was eye-opening to see 1/4 of the 70% straight first-years "become" either gay or bi by sophomore year.</p>

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<p>Likewise, it was eye-opening to see 1/4 of the 70% straight first-years "become" either gay or bi by sophomore year.</p>

<p>Where did you get that? I have the survey and there is no mention or question regarding 1st years and their subsequent choices later during their college career.</p>

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<p>I didn't really get that, which is why I put "become" in quotes. It's just that the 70% straight in the first-years contrasts with the rather stable numbers in later years (55-59%).</p>

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<p>It's just that the 70% straight in the first-years contrasts with the rather stable numbers in later years (56-58%).]]</p>

<p>I’m not disputing your number but where did you get it? It’s not part of the survey, and I’m not familiar with a survey given solely to the 1st yrs asking their sexual orientation.</p>

<p>The survey has started a great deal of discussion on campus however.</p>

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<p>of FYs: 15% are bi, 70% straight, 6% gay, 5.5% questioning
of soph's: 21% are bi, 59% straight, 10.4% gay, 5% questioning
of juniors: 24% are bi, 55% straight, 13% gay, 3% questioning
of seniors: 24% are bi, 58% straight, 13% gay, 2% questioning</p>

<p>I assumed that FYs meant "first years"?</p>

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<p>"According to research done in Chicago and elsewhere in the U.S., lesbians and bisexual women are more likely than heterosexual women to drink. Some of the reasons include fewer roles and responsibilities—such as parenting—that tend to limit heterosexual’s women’s drinking; fewer cultural norms that discourage drinking; greater reliance on bars for socialization; and stress related to societal stigma and discrimination. These factors make drinking an important lesbian health concern."</p>

<p>Drinking is an important health concern for everyone. That's why I think it is terrific that the binge drinking rate at Smith is less than half of its coed neighbors (Amherst/Williams), and about 2/3rd that of Swarthmore. </p>

<p>By the way, the binge drinking rate at coed colleges in U.S. is relatively equal for women and men. They are, however, less likely to become heavy (i.e. daily) drinkers, or, in the future, alcoholics.</p>

<p>"Yes, ticklemepink, the combined numbers are what gives Smith the reputation. I saw "58% straight" of the seniors and thought, "Just over half are straight." </p>

<p>See, and I read the numbers and saw that fewer than 1 in 8 are lesbian, which was a little lower than what I thought (I thought 15%), but not by that much. The "bi" surveys at coed colleges would also yield a much lower "straight" population. Nationally, though, one has to remember that the percentage of the male population that is gay is roughly 5-6X that of the female population that is gay. I expect, however, but I have not seen surveys, that the percentage of women who might claim they are "bi" is higher than that of men - but many more of them will end up in heterosexual marriages or relationships (or at least used to), simply because it is "easier". Changing social norms might change that over time (wouldn't bother me in the least).</p>

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<p>I see you got the numbers from the Jolt. Where did the poster get them ?
The only page dealing with sexual orientations is page 3</p>

<p>"GOV 312 Survey, Spring 2006 </p>

<p>The GOV 312 Survey was administered to Smith College students between April 6 and April 16, 2006. Respondents took the survey via internet. Overall, 1,469 undergraduate students took the survey"</p>

<p>"Sexual Orientation</p>

<p>Although the definition of sexuality is very personal and unique to each individual, society tends to place people in certain categories of sexual orientation. Which of the following categories BEST characterizes you?</p>

<p>N=1467 respondents</p>

<p>asexual 1.2%
bisexual 20.4%
heterosexual 61.2%
gay/lesbian 10.6%
questioning 3.7%
other 2.8% </p>

<p>Estimate of Smith -- Heterosexual</p>

<p>Estimate the percentage of Smith College students that would identify as: Heterosexual (attracted to people of other sex)</p>

<p>N=1465 respondents</p>

<p>less than 15% 1.0%
15% to 29% 7.4%
30% to 49% 22.8%
50% 16.3%
51% to 69% 39.1%
70% to 84% 12.4%
85% or more 1.0% </p>

<p>Estimate of Smith --Gay/Lesbian</p>

<p>Estimate the percentage of Smith College students that would identify as: Gay/lesbian (attracted to people of same sex)</p>

<p>N=1463 respondents</p>

<p>less than 15% 11.1%
15% to 29% 44.4%
30% to 49% 31.4%
50% 6.2%
51% to 69% 5.5%
70% to 84% 1.3%
85% or more 0.1% </p>

<p>Estimate of Smith -- Bisexual</p>

<p>Estimate the percentage of Smith College students that would identify as: Bisexual (attracted to people of both sexes and/or genders)</p>

<p>N=1463 respondents</p>

<p>less than 15% 16.3%
15% to 29% 42.0%
30% to 49% 24.9%
50% 5.9%
51% to 69% 6.8%
70% to 84% 2.8%
85% or more 1.4% </p>

<p>GO TO NEXT SECTION, P. 4</p>

<p>This is also interesting:" but i definatly have the sense that the class of 2009 is both more conservative and straighter than other classes, and will remain that way no matter how long they stay here"</p>

<p><a href="http://smith.dailyjolt.com/forum/read.html?id=254728%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://smith.dailyjolt.com/forum/read.html?id=254728&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"it just shows that the first year class is an incredibly straight class. the other three years are relatavely close statistically in </p>

<p>percentages. "<a href="http://smith.dailyjolt.com/forum/read.html?id=254734"&gt;http://smith.dailyjolt.com/forum/read.html?id=254734&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"the first-year class is really straight. i worked a pre-o and remember thinking that then.... "</p>

<p><a href="http://smith.dailyjolt.com/forum/read.html?id=254752%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://smith.dailyjolt.com/forum/read.html?id=254752&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Possibly Smith, consciously or unconsciously, is attempting to enroll more traditional students as they did in past decades. In fact, there may be no basis for assuming 1st yrs become bi/lesbain as they progress through the classes. It does seem silly to think a woman is straight at 18 but a lesbian by 19</p>

<p>Another intriguing thought would be, as more and more women are being rejected from the co-ed LACs and Ivies, Smith is experiencing a much larger percentage of straight women enrolling.</p>

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<p>"It does seem silly to think a woman is straight at 18 but a lesbian by 19."</p>

<p>Who knows? The difference between 6.5% and 10% in aggregate numbers is not that very large, and could easily be reflective of students who entered as "non-sexual" and discovered they were lesbian during the later years of adolescence.</p>

<p>My own personal belief is that definitions of sexuality -- and sexuality itself - are highly fluid. There was no term for gay folks before 1860-1870, yet homosexual behavior (including homosexual marriage within the Catholic Church, see John Boswell's work, and catamite relationships by Popes) has been around for a very long time. The Greeks and Romans (especially the males) had homosexual (and sometimes pedophile) relationships, and considered them as a healthy part of being a patriarchal family man. Among the Spartans, it was considered a requirement among the fighting troops, including among the women in support. Native tribes have not only had folks in what we would think of as gay relationships, but often also honored transgendered folks. As I intimidated above, non-specificity among women's sexuality (what we call "bi"), might actually be closer to the norm in a society not structured along patriarchal nuclear family lines. </p>

<p>Within our society, though, maintaining gay/lesbian relationships among adults has been hard, for a whole host of social, economic, and political reasons. It would sure be easier NOT to be gay within this society, though my gay friends tell me it is now generally easier for men than for women. As a result, one finds many gay folks in heterosexual marriages - and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.</p>

<p>I doubt Smith has made any attempts along the lines you suggest whatsover. I sure hope not. What's exciting to me about Smith is that it embraces women - ALL women - as potential scholars and leaders - and allows them to develop into who they are meant to be.</p>

<p>Back in the dark ages, when my alma mater was all men, we had lots of gay students. Only one who was "out", though. There was lots of homo-erotic behavior. One or two suicides a year, four or five attempted ones. College counseling center had no idea how to deal with it, especially as many students didn't even have a language to use. Some dropouts of folks who couldn't stand "the closet". No one ever talked about it. Those were the bad old days.</p>

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<p>No, it was 70% straight and 58% straight. But the big difference is in the "bi" population, not the lesbian population. 87% still have sex with men if they have sex and find the right man, if it matters. I suspect some women decide to try lesbian sex, think it's okay, find it politically acceptable to define themselves that way (and, if alumnae trends hold), will end up in heterosexual marriages or relationships. My personal view is that more than a quarter of the women I know are or would be "bi" in a society without heterosexual boundaries and limits. (and I wouldn't be surprised to see similar numbers at a coed college among women, though I think lower among men.) </p>

<p>I see this as an "honest" thing, if not a good one.</p>

<p>(whoops, you erased your post to which this was a response, but that's okay, I'll let this one stand.)</p>

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<p>Who knows? The difference between 6.5% and 10}}</p>

<p>I'm speaking of the difference between 70% straight 1st yr and 58 % straight in subsequent yrs.</p>

<p>I’m well aware of past histories. The Chinese and Japanese had interesting relationships too. However, usually if any particular behavior is a benefit to the species it proliferates, the opposite has occurred.
I'm speaking more about the pedophile relationships and not making an editorial comment about being gay etc.</p>

<p>{[whoops, you erased your post to which this was a response, but that's okay, I'll let this one stand.)}]</p>

<p>Sorry, I wanted to add and make a correction and wasn't sure I had time, so I started over.</p>

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<p>Homosexuality (among males) was useful to Greek and Roman societies as they allowed for greater bonding among fighting men and teaching relationships between old and young. (As they do you, those "pedophilic" relationships make me uncomfortable, but I don't fully understand their cultural context to determine whether they were in fact "healthy" or not.) They were useful within the Catholic Church at a time when they were concerned about ownership of goods being passed down into families rather than back to the church. They were useful among tribes as it resulted in a greater number of caregivers for the young. It could be argued that they are useful today in providing greater outlets for society's creativity (unfettered in many cases by childrearing), and at a time when the world is threatened by overpopulation.</p>

<p>I'll admit, I'm not much into the utilitarian argument myself. If there are evolutionary strains within expressions of sexuality, they would likely have been created long before current social, economic, and political norms. The only case I like to make is that the definitions are highly fluid (and hence to see 24% of women defining themselves as "bi" might in fact be closer to the honest truth about women in the society as a whole.)</p>

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<p>(unfettered in many cases by childrearing), and at a time when the world is threatened by overpopulation]]</p>

<p>That's what birth contol is for. I can see the argument now, "but judge, I only slept with the 10 yr old girl b/c I wanted to do my part for world population control"</p>

<p>Time to leave this topic</p>

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<p>A study published by the CDC in 2005, "Selected behavior and selected health behaviors: Men and women 15-44 years of age, United States, 2002" found that, of women ages 18-44:</p>

<p>12.9% were attracted to both sexes
10.2% were attracted mostly to men (but did not define themselves as heterosexual)
1.9% said both
0.8% mostly female (but did not define themselves as gay.)</p>

<p>Add 'em together, and, guess what? The percentage of "bi's" reported in the Smith population is THE SAME (actually, a hair lower) as the population as a whole. (So again, all I think the survey is reflecting is honesty.)</p>