Gay Smithies - Once and for All

<p>{Likewise, it was eye-opening to see 1/4 of the 70% straight first-years "become" either gay or bi by sophomore year.}</p>

<p>If this would be true, that's when the inside jokes come alive:</p>

<p>"First year, guaranteed that you'll be at least bi/gay by the end of the year or your money back."</p>

<p>"LUG-Lesbian Until Graduation"</p>

<p>So there. LOL I still get a kick out of those because it did feel that way when I was there. I'm sure that the fact that my house was almost 50% non-straight had to do something with it...</p>

<p>I come from the San Francisco Bay Area, presumably gay capital USA, and I think the numbers mini gave are somewhat exaggerated. I would say that the total percentages of gays and Bi's are less than 10 percent total. Sure, there are many people who are mostly straight but occasionally are attracted to people of the same gender. However, I don't think this should be considered "bi". It's also hard to distinguish between emotional, romantic, and sexual "attraction". </p>

<p>Let's just settle this issue: Smith college, percentage wise, has a far greater gay population than the country as a whole. In fact, it's probably one of the highest percentages of any college in the nation. To deny this is on the same level as someone from Dartmouth or Colgate denying that his school has a higher percentage of binge drinkers than the population as a whole. It's just the way it is. What I don't understand is why anyone would truly want to deny it. It's simply nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, Smith should be proud of having a community so accepting of a group that typically faces appalling amounts of discrimination throughout much of the country. So there're a lot of lesbians at Smith, gay men at Yale, Asians in the UC system, conservatives at Brigham Young, etc. Take your pick.</p>

<p>there's no proof from this survey that firstyears 'become' gay. just that the class of '09 is straighter than the other classes. in a couple years, when they're seniors, they still might be the straightest class on campus. maybe the class of '11 will be 70% gay. maybe it'll be 80% straight. who knows? but since this wasn't a longitudinal study, it would be hard to say what staying at smith 'does' to a class' sexual orientation.</p>

<p>"I come from the San Francisco Bay Area, presumably gay capital USA, and I think the numbers mini gave are somewhat exaggerated."</p>

<p>Not my numbers. They come from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,and they use them in program planning. I do think that, at 1 out of 8, Smith DOES have one of the largest lesbian populations of any school in the country. (Though I think it is far from having the largest gay population, not with gay males generally outnumbering lesbians 5-6x to 1.)</p>

<p>But I don't think that's a bad thing at all. It's just what it is.</p>

<p>"So there. LOL I still get a kick out of those because it did feel that way when I was there. I'm sure that the fact that my house was almost 50% non-straight had to do something with it..."</p>

<p>If you apply the CDC numbers to Colgate, you find out something "very interesting". Of course, the cultural differences at Colgate are very different, regardless of whom one has sex with.</p>

<p>Geez! Where are the CDC or AA or Surgeon General's statistics that Colgate has a higher percentage of binge drinkers??????????</p>

<p>Couldn't you just say that, " To deny this is on the same level as someone from Dartmouth or Colgate denying that his school has a higher percentage of straight collar popping jocks than the population as a whole."</p>

<p>Then we could all just slip on our North Face Fleeces, and go back to our own Colgate Forum, pop a Keystone and watch the Colbert Report.</p>

<p>Hi Mhc, how have you been? How'd you know about the conversation here? TMP tip you off so the Colgate massage board attorney in resident could come over with a point or five? :)</p>

<p>Don’t take this so personally friend. You and I both know Colgate is a great college. </p>

<p>Fwiw--You guys have to ditch the North Face. The truly beautiful people wear Patagonia. ;)</p>

<p><em>Only</em> 12% of Smithies are lesbian?<br>
Wow. As a prospie, I have to admit I was kind of bummed to read that, haha. But 30% queer in general def. isn't bad at all.</p>

<p>Funny that on this board, you always hear about straight girls worried about the queer population, but never about girls who are interested in Smith <em>because</em> of its queer-friendly rep. Any ideas as to why that's so?</p>

<p>Lol...
That's a different perspective. I don't know why it is never adressed but as a straight girl, i don't know why people are so worried about this gay thing...so what if there is a large gay community? That's not why we- at least I- are going to smith. People lose perspective sometimes of the impoertant things!</p>

<p>For what it's worth, Princeton Review ranks Smith behind the following coed schools for "Gay students accepted" - New College of Florida, Macalester, Eugene Lang, St. John's (both Maryland and New Mexico), Lawrence, Emerson, Harvey Mudd, Olin Engineering, Wesleyan, Marlboro, and Carleton.</p>

<p>I wish it were first! ;)</p>

<p>Hey_la, I think there's never a question about gay life at Smith because it is well-known to be lesbian-friendly. All women's colleges attract a significant portion of gay applicants, so, really, it's a matter of fit as to which college a gay women chooses. Likewise, a gay woman may choose to attend a coed school - and many of them do.</p>

<p>I think there's an "issue" not because the people here care so much about it, but because we are faced with it nonetheless. If it truly made a difference for those of us posting on this thread, we wouldn't be associated with Smith, either as students or as parents of Smithies.</p>

<p>That said, it is an issue, and sometimes even a surprise, for prospective students. I know that my conservatively-raised, Midwestern niece would probably think that her parents would approve of a single-gender college until she arrived at Smith. She probably would be shocked at what she saw. It's not in anyone's best interest to hide the open homosexuality at Smith. More socially conservative tudents who arrive on campus not knowing might have a tough time adjusting.</p>

<p>Accepted students who haven't thought about whether they would be bothered by the open expression of affection among lesbians and/or the lack of men must confront this issue as they decide whether to attend.</p>

<p>So . . . the percentages are no big deal, even though they are interesting.</p>

<p>I've been scarce on the board for a bit due to a confluence of a burst of work, an indispostion of health, and a funeral, the last two unrelated, but I've a couple of quick comments.</p>

<p>MWFN, it's not even the socially conservative students. Best quote I've heard was, "I thought I was liberal until I came here." Smith is an institution where many students have two hands: Left and Far Left, and that plays out in gender expectations as well.</p>

<p>Unforgiven, some folks "worry" because either they're concerned about "conversion" or, more likely, an atmosphere of reverse discrimination, given that the GBLT community is very vocal by reputation. Fwiw, I've never known someone to be "converted" against their will, as it the issue is not one of a lifestyle "choice."</p>

<p>RLT, I think the stats support my position that you took issue with: if only 58-70 percent of Smith students are straight, 30-40 percent aren't, I don't care whether it's LUG, BUG, or other. When you consider that it takes effort to develop male companionship, at lot of those who checked "bi" are going to be functionally "gay" in terms of the Smith social environment. The non-straight population casts a large shadow, witnessed in everything from the hoo-hah about the "gender neutral" bathroom to the use of the word "heteronormative."</p>

<p>Btw, my take on the junior-year figures is that "straights" probably go on JYA programs in slightly disproportional numbers, getting a year of "co-ed break, thus reducing the "straight" numbers slightly for those remaining on campus.</p>

<p>It's not in anyone's best interest to hide the open homosexuality at Smith. More socially conservative tudents who arrive on campus not knowing might have a tough time adjusting.]]</p>

<p>I made that very point recently and used as an example a woman from a small farming village who indeed was shocked when she arrived at Smith. </p>

<p>What I believe needs to be conveyed when describing Smith is give the facts but discontinue the assertion the lesbian population has a huge influence on the Smith campus. Such fabrications are dissuading far too many students from giving Smith a chance, when in all likelihood if they were to visit after being informed/shown the actual atmosphere, and disregarded message board chatter, might very well become future Smithies. I know women who have experienced the latter also. </p>

<p>I spent 3 hours in the SC (don’t ask) and never would have known there was a gay presence at Smith.
Oroh- I walked to another location on campus and witnessed a couple of women showing affection for each other. No big deal either way. </p>

<p>Smith is a conglomeration of far too various different types of women than I have time or the inclination to categorize, or for that matter, care one way or the other.</p>

<p>All I’m trying to say is Smith is much more than percentages. No one group defines the Smith environment or experience, and to profess otherwise is an insult to the every student.</p>

<p>Smith is an institution where many students have two hands: Left and Far Left, and that plays out in gender expectations as well.]]
at lot of those who checked "bi" are going to be functionally "gay" in terms of the Smith social environment.}}[[</p>

<p>LOL--That's BS...When did you become such an expert on the sexuality at Smith? I believe I have far more years than you watching the interactions on campus, not to mention I lived there</p>

<p>Your daughter has been <em>on campus</em> how long? 12 months? And on Green St at that. :)
How many /hours/have you been on campus? </p>

<p>And even if what you say is true, which it isn't, bi women are for the most part a reserved group and don't have a "huge" influence on campus or elsewhere.</p>

<p>If you’re so sure you're correct, I suggest you call admissions and have a chat. Ask them if they appreciate your representation of Smith. It would be interesting to see if they condone your opinion of the college.</p>

<p>[[The non-straight population casts a large shadow, witnessed in everything from the hoo-hah about the "gender neutral" bathroom]]</p>

<p>Ridiculous, the neutral bathroom was the result of a /very small/ number of transgender students /not/ the gay population. You would be hard pressed to even see a transgendered student unless you really went out of your way to find the dozen or so on campus.</p>

<p>fwiw- there are neutral gender bathrooms on every campus.</p>

<p>I'm sorry about your health and the funeral. I hope you're well and welcome back ;)</p>

<p>"Once and for All" --- Who said that???!!! :-)</p>

<p>PS-There were always neutral gender bathrooms at Smith. What do you think visiting guys used in many of the houses? :)</p>

<p>The <em>new</em> transgendered bathrooms are in the SC</p>

<p>All bathrooms have to be neutral, even in the houses. Where do you expect boyfriends and guy friends take their nature's calling? :P I still remember my first shock at seeing a BOY after three solid days of orientation with only the ladies.... LOL one of my best memories at Smith.</p>

<p>TD- I love the hands comment, that passage sums up really well in my opinoin.</p>

<p>Good point about JYA and Smith- it's one of the primary reasons why straight Smithies want to escape: to find hot foreign men to marry and to bring home.</p>

<p>Yes, I was bombarded with concerns about the gay population at Smith when I was seriously considering it. As hey_la and unforgiven said, it's quite an experience and different from your day-to-day life. It's one of the reasons why I chose to go to Smith for my first year. American U would've been high school all over again in terms of student population/diversity so going to Smith with its high diversity and different culture would bring a real experience to my first year. Boy... I would never trade it for anything else! Even right now, I don't feel strong about studying abroad to experience a different environment because I compared my first year at Smith as "going abroad."</p>

<p>I honestly recommend any woman to just try going to an all-women's school for a year if they're not looking to go abroad but to study off-campus. College may be college but that's only the frosting on the cake.</p>

<p>TD- I love the hands comment, that passage sums up really well in my opinoin.}</p>

<p>Using your view of painting a campus with a broad, if not incorrect, stroke, you would agree the vast amount of binge drinking and prevalent Greek scene, and all that entails, pretty much sums up Colgate? I guess I can accept that definition</p>

<p>[[in terms of student population/diversity so going to Smith with its high diversity and different culture would bring a real experience to my first year]]</p>

<p>Let me get this straight, you believe Smith has a student population that is highly diverse with many different cultures? How can you then believe everyone is left of left (hand comment) but also highly diverse, as well as representing the views of dozens of different nationalities? Last time I checked the views of the Asian, et al, students could hardly be qualified as far left, or even left. Many students are very traditional in their views. Additionally, by stating the student body is highly diverse, wouldn’t you also agree you're implying the students represent a vast spectrum of beliefs and opinions, etc.?</p>

<p>I would have thought you would be the last person to allow any college to be defined by stereotypes.
And you know I don't believe that Colagte should be defined by its drinking issues, so take my comment in the humerous vein it was intended.</p>

<p>Many bathrooms weren't intended to be gender neutral, (they just are) any more than guys are supposed to live in the houses, but they do for extended periods.:)</p>

<p>[edited out- Mod JEM] To most of the population considering Smith, the difference between "gay" and "bi" is like the difference between "Orthodox" and "Reformed," a hairsplitting that doesn't signify. Admissions doesn't have to "condone" anything I've said, for nothing I've said represents a transgression that needs to condoned or forgiven, nor is my representation a fabrication. </p>

<p>For your edification, I <em>have</em> discussed various aspects of the "gay" image of Smith with both current and former admissions reps, alumni reps, ordinary alums, and numerous current students. None have suggested that I'm off track in general assessments, though many have added various layers of texture and nuance to the view as these discussions have accreted.</p>

<p>You seem to view discussing the heavy GBLT presence at Smith as a fabrication that prevents well-qualified women from applying. You seem to find it difficult to accept, as TMP and I and others have indicated, that there are a lot of concerns "out there" about the GBLT presence at Smith that percolate around and come to prospects' attention when they first begin to investigate Smith.</p>

<p>An honest approach pretty much works: it's there but it's not a big deal but you have to be tolerant with respect to orientation. In one sentence, that what it boils down to. But trying to minimize the effect is counterproductive and trying to hand wave away the fact that 30-40 percent of the students are non-straight--which matches up pretty well with my guestimate of one-third--is dishonest.</p>

<p>And you can stop waving your "service stripes" with Smith in my face, I'm not impressed. I've pretty well done "total immersion" on all-things-Smith for the past four years and while I'm not infallible, I'll put my take on the current conditions up against anyone's. I'm sure it would provoke a spirited pro- and anti- on DailyJolt.</p>

<p>TMP: I've heard nothing about marrying the hot foreign men and bringing them home. The concerns were of a more immediate social nature.</p>

<p>[edited out - Mod JEM]</p>

<p>Does Smith have a vocal lesbian presence? Yup. Does Smith accept gays with open arms? Yup. But even here, as the Princeton Review demonstrated, Smith isn't near the top. Are there more gays at Smith than most other colleges? Certaintly. Are gays the driving force behind the atmosphere and Smith experience? Nope</p>

<p>I’ll make this simple, if anyone would like another opinion, call admissions. Let the college speak for itself.(800) 383-3232. Ask if bi women are functionally gay for their college years; if there is no difference between bi, questioning, and vocal lesbians; if the GLTB women and issues cast a large shadow and have a “huge” influence on the campus life; if the gay population forced the college to create gender neutral bathrooms, etc., etc.</p>

<p>[edited out - Mod JEM] It's time to let Smith speak for Smith</p>

<p>[[which matches up pretty well with my guestimate of one-third--is dishonest.}}</p>

<p>You’re calling a third of the Smith students dishonest?
Wow, that certainly doesn’t speak well of the integrity of Smithies. But, hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion</p>

<p>[[I <em>have</em> discussed various aspects of the "gay" image of Smith with both current and former admissions reps, alumni reps, ordinary alums, and numerous current students]]</p>

<p>So have I. I have just talked to two alumnae who are recruiters. They feel as I do.</p>

<p>Before you deleted it from your post, you stated no women were dissuaded from Smith b/c of misrepresentations, in the eyes of some, regarding the influence of the GLTB community on the social aspects etc. at Smith. I respectively disagree, as I know of two personally. Had a visit no taken place to dispel some of notions promulgated on this board, Smith would have lost an outstanding student.</p>

<p>Here is what I suggest to all students. Understand there are gay students at Smith. They will be a part of your everyday life. </p>

<p>Take anything anyone says with a serious grain of salt, (except current students e.g. Borgin ) especially parents who never have all the facts, including me. Visit the campus. Talk to students at the SC working at the deli. Talk to the women on the 1st floor at the info booth. Hang out at Green st, Elm st, and the Quad. You’ll see girls in heels and pearls, women in capes and goth, women eating tofu who are self proclaimed tree huggers. Find numerous women like yourself, and not, and ask them their opinion of the prevailing sentiments on campus. Do the same in town. You’ll be able to spot a Smithie. Visit Starbucks and talk to a Smithie ( some work there) or one doing homework.</p>

<p>A current Smithie will inform you of more than any well intentioned parent and tell you things they would never dare speak about to an adult.:)</p>

<p>College is a life changing experience and where to attend shoudn’t be taken lightly. Spend hours at Smith and try to do an overnight with a student who is like you.</p>