Gay Smithies - Once and for All

[hey_la]

<p>I guess I should've made my question a little bit more clear--everybody who's posted on this thread is straight/has a straight daughter. How do the queer girls feel about the large gay influence? And maybe more importantly, how would a queer Smithie react to reading this thread? </p>

<p>I don't know. I can't quite put my finger on why exactly it's so, and I certainly have <strong><em>far</em></strong> less experience with Smith than anybody else posting here, but something about this thread kind of bothers me. I guess I kinda wish that the gay thing wasn't an issue at all, except for queer girls choosing to go to a college where they know they'll have plenty of opportunity to date other girls (similar to a straight girl choosing the single sex or coed option, kinda). </p>

<p>My experience with the Smith admissions office re: the queer deal has been fabulous, actually. I asked one of them upfront about the supposed significant gay presence without making my intentions for asking clear (I'm <em>seriously</em> girly and give off no gaydar vibes, unfortunately), and she gave me this terrific answer about how yes, there were a lot of girls who liked girls on campus, and if I was uncomfortable with it, I should basically go elsewhere.<br>
As compared to the MoHo admissions office (note: I'm not bashing Mt Holyoke, it's a terrific school, and I will prob. apply there), where the admissions officer tried to act like gay presence wasn't there, and just kind of looked embarrassed when I told her I was asking because I <em>wanted</em> a campus with a decent sized gay presence. </p>

<p>Fwiw, I'm pretty gosh darn queer and pretty gosh darn leftist socially. I'm also fairly religious, and <strong>incredibly</strong> Asian. </p>

<p>Anyway, thank you all for the honest dialogue! :)</p>

<p>P.S. TD, though I don't post often at all, I've really appreciated the anti-homophobe posts you make on the Smith board and elsewhere. Thank you.</p>

[BJM8]

<p>
[quote]
Take anything anyone says with a serious grain of salt, (except current students e.g. Borgin ) especially parents who never have all the facts, including me. Visit the campus. Talk to students at the SC working at the deli. Talk to the women on the 1st floor at the info booth. Hang out at Green st, Elm st, and the Quad. You’ll see girls in heels and pearls, women in capes and goth, women eating tofu who are self proclaimed tree huggers. Find numerous women like yourself, and not, and ask them their opinion of the prevailing sentiments on campus. Do the same in town. You’ll be able to spot a Smithie. Visit Starbucks and talk to a Smithie ( some work there) or one doing homework.

[/quote]

I have been very quiet regarding this thread, but...after reading this quote from RLT, I can honestly say it is the best advice. My D, although accepted ED and can't wait to start up in the fall, simply agrees that there are "many, many girls just like her" at Smith. (She happens to be of the "straight" variety.) Since being accepted, she has visited numerous times and had these same questions running through her mind for months. Her last visit put it all in perspective for her. She spent the day with two Smithies who clarified the "Smith experience" for her, and that's all she needed. She loves the diversity of Smith and all that it offers. (very different from our suburban high school in town). She has met and talked to girls who have similar interests, has received great advice and not so great advice on "life at Smith." Bottom line...no matter who you are or what your lifestyle is like, you will be fine. You will ultimately befriend girls of the same ilk and interests. They are there...whether you are straight or not! Whatever rocks your boat...cause that's what makes Smith great IMHO! Plus, let's not forget the the education received there is second to none...and...isn't that why you're going to college in the first place?</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>[[I kinda wish that the gay thing wasn't an issue at all,]]</p>

<p>Great post, I couldn’t agree with you more, that’s why I said future students should realize gay students will be part of their life on a daily basis, period. Being gay should no more be a topic of conversation than having freckles.</p>

<p>By the very fact we find it necessary to discuss the perceived huge influence of any group ad nauseum, I’m sure translates to some there must be a problem, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth </p>

<p>The comment the admission officer gave you regarding gays is exactly what is said at our prospective or accepted students parties. There is absolutely no reason to elaborate or make editorial comments.
No parent is truly qualified to express what it's like to study, learn, play, love and live on the Smith campus. Even the Smith students themselves will never come to a consensus on how to describe the Smith experience b/c everyone’s is different</p>

<p>Smith attracts the very brightest women from around the world. They’re very capable of researching and talking to other students either by visiting, email, or PM’s etc. They certainly don’t need to told by me, or any adult who never attended the college, what the atmosphere is like or if Smith is good fit for their views and expectations.</p>

<p>Students will also have as part of their life women who wear pearls and blazers (no joke) capes, Goth, preppy pink, women who are Democrats, Republicans, Buddhists, Muslims, Catholics, et cetera, et cetera.</p>

<p>No one makes a huge issue of the preppy, granola, Republican, Muslim, et al, contingencies on campus, so why make the gays, or any group, the focal point or create in anyone’s mind one group influences the atmosphere on the Smith campus over another when it might or might not be correct at best, or dissuade a woman from looking any further at Smith at worst b/c they never take the opportunity to learn the truth for themselves? I’ll agree what one person perceives as the <em>truth</em> or true Smith may be entirely different from another-- all the more reason to refrain from generalizations, innuendoes or perceived influences.</p>

<p>The sexual persuasion of a woman, whether it be straight, bi, gay, or transgender is, imo, irrelevant to the experience and education Smith provides, except to the degree students get to know, appreciate, and, yes, even admire and learn to love the diversity in the world.</p>

<p>True equality, in my mind, will come to fruition when everyone is so accepted--whether they're Black, Brown, gay, straight or in between--that no one consciously or unconsciously is cognizant a difference exists in the first place.
There should never again be a thread discussing <em>how gay</em> Smith is any more than there should be one about which house has the straightest students.</p>

<p>I pray that day is close at hand and any comments regarding any group become obsolete.</p>

<p>In another life, I worked in an industry where 80%++ of the men were gay. At one time, my roommate was gay, as well as many friends. It was a non issue.
It should always be a non issue.</p>

<p>As I said, from now on let's let Smith speak for Smith.</p>

<p>It's my hope this converstion is finished forever on this board.</p>

<p>]]I'm pretty gosh darn queer and pretty gosh darn leftist socially. I'm also fairly religious, and <strong>incredibly</strong> Asian.]</p>

<p>LOL—Your point is well taken. I know an Irish Catholic, Republican gay male. Talk about being contrary to the generalization. :)</p>

<p>Nothing is more fun than having a manly, (no ice) Irish whiskey with a guy in a 3 piece suite, who while at the same time is advocating the benefits of the 15% capital gains tax is checking out the waiter. :)</p>

<p>Bjm8, thanks for your usual great words of wisdom. ;)</p>

[BJM8]

<p>
[quote]
Great post, I couldn’t agree with you more, that’s why I said future students should realize gay students will be part of their life on a daily basis, period. Being gay should no more be a topic of conversation than having freckles.</p>

<p>By the very fact we find it necessary to discuss the perceived huge influence of any group ad nauseum, I’m sure translates to some there must be a problem, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth </p>

<p>The comment the admission officer gave you regarding gays is exactly what is said at our prospective or accepted students parties. There is absolutely no reason to elaborate or make editorial comments.
No parent is truly qualified to express what it's like to study, learn, play, love and live on the Smith campus. Even the Smith students themselves will never come to a consensus on how to describe the Smith experience b/c everyone’s is different</p>

<p>Smith attracts the very brightest women from around the world. They’re very capable of researching and talking to other students either by visiting, email, or PM’s etc. They certainly don’t need to told by me, or any adult who never attended the college, what the atmosphere is like or if Smith is good fit for their views and expectations.

[/quote]

Agreed!! Intersting, isn't it, how Yale is not perceived to be having many "gay" males???? Why? Because they don't make a big deal out of it, that's why! (I love answering my own questions) :)</p>

<p>The President of Smith must refocus her attentions on the academic product, not a group(s) of women who are "different" for lack of a better word. I have said all along that Smith is a great college, in a great college town, with great profs, an advising and housing system second to none, and bright, articulate students who attend. Let's discuss that point for awhile, and all this other talk will go away. We have been to Wellesley twice; didn't like it at all (our opinion), and didn't hear a word about the gay community. Just about how great the academics are, and how dedicated their profs are to undergraduate learning. (I'm sure that part is true!) Smith better re-focus their energies on the academic side soon, as they will be much better served. We as parents, should be doing the same thing. On previous posts that I have made, not once have I wanted to discuss the gay issue. To us, it's a non-issue...period! I have always touted Smith as a school for young women that meets their needs in a very unique manner. For women, by women! So, what do we say we get off this subject (as I'm sure other schools who compete with Smith for students, must love to read these posts), and concentrate on what Smith does best...educate women like no other school in the nation.</p>

[mini]

<p>"We have been to Wellesley twice; didn't like it at all (our opinion), and didn't hear a word about the gay community."</p>

<p>And Wellesley ranks third on the Princeton Review index (based on student surveys) of "gay accepting colleges"; Smith ranks 16th. (Yes, Wellesley IS ranked higher. ;))</p>

<p>Carol Christ has made it very clear - in all her meetings with alums (you can actually read the records of the conversations on the Smith site), that it is a non-issue as far as she is concerned, and much more a concern for alums than for the students themselves.</p>

[ticklemepink]

<p>I disagree. It will ALWAYS been an issue on this board and out there, no matter what. It's only not an issue if you're already a student living on the campus or a recent alum. When you're in one of these two positions, you're more focused on your academics, your friends, and your time at Smith- just trying to make the most of your freedom and learning from your peers about the world.</p>

<p>Alums are concerned because Smith isn't the same as it was and they're concerned that the huge vocal from the "large" gay population will drive the best students away from applying to Smith because the campus can feel overwhelming gay with sound speakers that loud.</p>

<p>High school students... see above. Also I suspect that many come from co-ed schools where homophobia tends to be in the rage as kids are learning about their sexuality and don't want to question because it's just not the "norm" to be gay. High schoolers may want to keep that kind of atmosphere as they go through with college or fear of what their peers may think when they go to a single-sex school. Remember those "You go to Smith? Isn't that a lesbian school?"</p>

<p>No wonder why the students are so self-selected, they can STAND UP for themselves and repeatedly correct the misconceptions of Smith. I stand up for Smith- even when I'm asked why I transferred out and they assumed that I left because of the lesbian population, which is pretty much dead-wrong. I don't think it's easy to speak out for Smith when YOU KNOW that it deserves an amazing name recognition, not a degrading one, because it does provide amazing education and experiences to the women who go there. I still get excited when I hear about a Smithie out there somewhere and without even meeting her, I tell that person that she's bound to be an amazing woman because I know what that place can do for many.</p>

<p>I don't think Christ should veer far away from the current issues because she will want to keep first year retention high. In order for that to happen, she must recruit women who believe in Smith and will accept it for what it is, (no matter what) rather than bring in women blindly (like me in a way) and let them discover for themselves or experience some sort of culture shock that the campus isn't what it's all about. I can name some bright women who left for that reason only and one of them was my best friend at Smith (not anymore because of her narrow, more negative opinions about it- we spent nights discussing and crying over this- her ranting and me trying to put things in perspective). Christ just needs to put things in perspective if first year retention is more important than marketing to bring in more applicants who will eventually left upon discovery.</p>

[TheDad]

<p>So much to respond to. Let's clear out some underbrush first.</p>

<p>Hey_LA, my guess is that queer girls in all their varieties find Smith almost a life raft in that its acceptance of queer is such a contrast to so many places. Fwiw, I'm on the "anti" side of the transgendered argument, figuring that if you want to live as male, Smith <em>isn't</em> where you should be...the only counter-argument that gives me pause at all is that a place like Smith is going to be more accepting of transgendered than most other places. (Not wanting to open up a flame war, just getting into nuances that I see.) </p>

<p>I'm not sure how queer girls would react to this thread: at least part of my own position is that there's nothing in the least bit wrong with the degree of Smith's acceptance of queer. But think that most queer would also agree and understand that straights have various degrees of comfort level with queer and that some may need a "heads up" and attitude adjustment <em>before</em> they get to Smith instead of having a heavy landing when they get there.</p>

<p>As for my anti-homophobe stance across the board, thank you. I admit that my <em>personal</em> response to gay sex ranges from "Eeew!" to "what a waste" depending on the configuration--unreconstructed Archie Bunker in some ways. But I have too many clients and friends, including close friends, who are gay and I could not look them in the eye if I did not speak for them when they could not speak for themselves. In some ways, my politics are very feudal in that I put a high premium on personal obligations...I simply can't betray my friends, or the friends of my D. Etc. </p>

<p>Mini, the "gay friendly" rating in PR is fairly volatile. In the 2003 edition of PR, Smith was #4. I <em>think</em> that a year or two before that it was #2 but I can't swear to it. I don't pay much attention to the fine detail in any event, it's the broad brushstroke that's of import here.

[quote]
I have said all along that Smith is a great college, in a great college town, with great profs, an advising and housing system second to none, and bright, articulate students who attend. Let's discuss that point for awhile, and all this other talk will go away. We have been to Wellesley twice; didn't like it at all (our opinion), and didn't hear a word about the gay community. Just about how great the academics are, and how dedicated their profs are to undergraduate learning.

[/quote]
BJM, I've been tirelessly flogging these virtues of Smith for nearly four years. I account your D as one of the people I've assisted in snaring for the Cause. But those elements, while necessary to a complete picture of Smith, are not sufficient.
[quote]
Bottom line...no matter who you are or what your lifestyle is like, you will be fine. You will ultimately befriend girls of the same ilk and interests. They are there...whether you are straight or not! Whatever rocks your boat...cause that's what makes Smith great IMHO! Plus, let's not forget the the education received there is second to none...and...isn't that why you're going to college in the first place?

[/quote]
All this is true but irrelevant. <em>Your</em> D and <em>my</em> D may have arrived at Smith with no problems with dimensions of the gay environment, but for others it was quite a shock. Imo the <em>best</em> way to get young women, of any persuasion to Smith, is convey an accurate picture of Smith's strengths and what campus life is like. A statement, or a paragraph, or a dialogue, to the effect of "Some of you may have reservations about X...we're here to tell you that it's not a problem" is much stronger than pretending X does not exist. For many students X will not be a problem. Those for whom it's a problem won't be apply in the first place. It's the middle of the triage that deserves the attention...this <em>is</em> what Smith is like but you shouldn't have a problem with it and here's our experience with it. Fwiw, Smith has a reputation of being a <em>lot</em> more out there than Wellesley...I've read some of the comments on the Wellesley board where students have visited both.
[quote]
Are gays the driving force behind the atmosphere and Smith experience? Nope

[/quote]
I defy anyone to find where I've said any such thing. Sloppy reading. What I've said is that the gay population at Smith casts a disproportionate shadow over the campus culture in proportion to its [high] numbers. That's a far cry from "driving force...influence." The gay presence is felt in everything from as mundane things as social drama (sure ain't much about guys), preponderance of sexually oriented posts on Jolt, and public displays of affection (which I <em>know</em> have stunned some visiting prospies and parents who were unaware) to some of the [overly PC, imo] gay filters that pop up in classes in the social sciences. Am I condemning any of this? Well, not more than any part of the other parts of PC that get a bit tedious. But is this part of the Smith "atmosphere" and should prospective parents and students be pre-acculturated where possible? Hell yes. Btw, just last week I got an e-mail from a prospect who said that I'd made both her and her parents so much more confident about her choosing to go to Smith this Fall.
[quote]
Ask if bi women are functionally gay for their college years; if there is no difference between bi, questioning, and vocal lesbians;

[/quote]
Distinctions that matter to a social scientist that would be mostly opaque to many visiting students and parents. See also, true but irrelevant.
[quote]

By the very fact we find it necessary to discuss the perceived huge influence of any group ad nauseum, I’m sure translates to some there must be a problem, when in reality nothing could be further from the truth

[/quote]
I think you convey a bigger sense of "problem" by trying minimize, handwave, and squelch than any discussion otherwise would accomplish.
[quote]
They certainly don’t need to told by me, or any adult who never attended the college, what the atmosphere is like or if Smith is good fit for their views and expectations.

[/quote]
Funny thing, but reasonably informed parents make reasonably accurate judgments on this board along these lines along the time.
[quote]
Before you deleted it from your post, you stated no women were dissuaded from Smith b/c of misrepresentations, in the eyes of some, regarding the influence of the GLTB community on the social aspects etc. at Smith. I respectively disagree, as I know of two personally. Had a visit no taken place to dispel some of notions promulgated on this board, Smith would have lost an outstanding student.

[/quote]
I didn't delete any post and I take umbrage at the suggestion. I did make an edit but I didn't say any such thing, though I did use the word "dissuaded" in making another point; I let my final text, not a penultimate draft, stand for me...otherwise I wouldn't have revised it, would I?</p>

<p>But:
[quote]
from TMP: I disagree. It will ALWAYS been an issue on this board and out there, no matter what.... and</p>

<p>High schoolers may want to keep that kind of atmosphere as they go through with college or fear of what their peers may think when they go to a single-sex school. Remember those "You go to Smith? Isn't that a lesbian school?" and</p>

<p>I stand up for Smith- even when I'm asked why I transferred out and they assumed that I left because of the lesbian population, which is pretty much dead-wrong.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You presume that there is <em>nothing</em> Out There because you believe <em>nothing</em> exists. TMP's experiences say otherwise. My experiences say otherwise. The girl from my D's high school who was a junior at Smith say otherwise. Others who have posted on this board say otherwise. </p>

<p>You don't have to share the experiences. Frankly, you don't even have to believe them. But neither are you entitled to bludgeon others simply because you want what you see as a non-issue to go away. I don't put up with bullying, not even from people I like, not even from someone participating in the same cause.</p>

<p>When other parents came up to me with the "Aren't there are a lot of lesbians at Smith?", my: "1. Yes. 2. We know. 3. She's not. 4. It's not a problem." was the answer. It's that Part 4 that some prospects and students need to hear. And that requires an extended dialogue about what Smith is all about, from multiple sources.</p>

<p>A poster who still frequents this board sent me a long e-mail on the subject when my D was investigating Smith. I can't pay that poster back, but I've forwarded the e-mail with my own comments to several others since then. And I don't know of anyone who has shied away from Smith as a result. And I know that several for whom it helped them on the road to making a decision for them or their D to attend.</p>

<p>If I had my way, Smith would be getting 10,000 applicants/year.</p>

[TheDad]

<p>
[quote]
I’m too exhausted to waste my time answering your entire diatribe. Hopefully our posts will be the <em>last</em> on this issue. No one wants to hear about it anymore, period.

[/quote]
Heavens, I'd hate to see how long you'd post if you weren't exhausted. "Diatribe"? "Diatribe?!" There's no "diatribe" there. There's a response in temperate language to several points that you and others raised.</p>

<p>
[quote]
You might also want to retract your statement 1/3 of Smith students are liars.

[/quote]
You know, this really puzzled me and I had to go back and re-read my own posts several times. The only point where I said anything about 1/3 was:
[quote]
But trying to minimize the effect is counterproductive and trying to hand wave away the fact that 30-40 percent of the students are non-straight--which matches up pretty well with my guestimate of one-third--is dishonest.

[/quote]
Which doesn't say anything at all about Smithies being dishonest. It says that anyone who handwaves away the fact that [my estimate of 1/3] of Smithies are gay is dishonest. If that statement was received with disgust, it was by people who misread as badly as you do.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Since you beleive you have “immersed” yourself in all thing Smith--and with all due respect, I’m not sure how as you live 3000 ++ miles away, only visited the campus a couple times for a few hours and talked to 12 or so students, alumnae etc.--I suggest you should try a different immersion technique b/c your current one isn’t working. If you truly had a pulse of the Smith campus, you’d know the students are sick and tired of having the gay issue posted all over the message boards time and time again, gays included, and Smith woman <em>hate</em> being called liars. Smihties take great pride in their honor code and ethics

[/quote]
Please take your rhetorical geek act elsewhere. You're attacking me: immersed, issue of distance [irrelevant], misrepresenting, minimizing, and ridiculing the amount of time I've spent on campus (more than a couple of times) and number of students I've talked to (more like 80, plus more than a dozen alumnae, plus former and current admissions officers, including one of the co-owners of this site), and your sneer if you truly had a pulse of Smith, and accusing me of things I haven't said, such as calling Smithies liars. </p>

<p>I responded to points you made, point by point. Whereas it seems the best you can do is make personal attacks instead.</p>

[arianneag]

<p>I wondering---</p>

<p>Does anyone here know if certain parts of campus may have more lesbians than other parts? If so, that may affect the "lesbian influence" on one's experience.</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>LOL--So much for letting the issue die. Oh well.</p>

<p>i[[s make personal attacks instead.}}</p>

<p>LOL--You had an ad hominem attack edited by the mod. What color was that kettle? Smile ;) It's not a bid deal.</p>

<p>Even our gay friend, hey_la, said “I kinda wish the gay thing wasn't an issue at all” Hmm, a wonderful woman, who happens to be gay, doesn't want to make an issue out of the /gayness/ at Smith but some don't seem to be listening. Why?</p>

<p>Ok, point by point response. It's not personal, TD, and you know it. It's a different of opinion and who has the right to speak for the Smith student body, and if one is going to make proclamations the veracity of their knowledge.</p>

<p>If you want to keep beating the drum, fine, but you’re certainly not doing the GLBT cause any favors, and all you're doing is solidifying the stereotype of Smith. </p>

<p>Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if other competing colleges interest in the Smith message board hasn’t been piqued and they’re cataloging all this bs and toasting each other b/c they’re bound to get a bump due to some students fleeing the perceived Smith environment .
If Princeton can hack Harvard’s puter systems looking for admission stats anything is possible-lol</p>

<p>}}I've talked to (more like 80, plus more than a dozen alumnae, plus former and current admissions officers, i}}</p>

<p>You say you talked to them but you didn't even know administrators were reading this board when I told you they were. Again, I believe everyone should call admissions and ask for themselves what the gay influence is before they visit. </p>

<p>And counted how many students you talked to? That's great. You an accountant? :) </p>

<p>{Funny thing, but reasonably informed parents make reasonably accurate judgments on this board along these lines along the time.}}</p>

<p>What-lol This board is for students to make informed decisions. And accurate in whose mind?
What is accurate to you may be a total falsely to another. As I said, no parent can possibly know what’s it like to be a Smithie and to claim otherwise is being disingenuous.</p>

<p>{{which matches up pretty well with my guestimate of one-third--is dishonest.}}
[[You know, this really puzzled me and I had to go back and re-read my own posts several times. The only point where I said anything about 1/3 was:}}Snip</p>

<p>Fair enough, but if it puzzled you and you had to re-read you post several to understand what you meant, don’t get upset with me or Smithies who read what you wrote and took it at face value or the fact it appeared you were calling 1/3 liars. i.e. dishonest</p>

<p>You claim to have “immersed” yourself in all things Smith, however, I suggest you should try a different immersion technique b/c your current one isn’t working. If you truly had a pulse of the Smith campus, you’d know the students are sick and tired of having the gay issue posted all over the message boards time and time again, gays included. That's not personal, TD, I'm simply saying you're in error :)</p>

<p>[[Imo the <em>best</em> way to get young women, of any persuasion to Smith, is convey an accurate picture of Smith's strengths and what campus life is like.]]</p>

<p>That’s all well and good, but, again, with all due respect, how long did you attend Smith to get this acurate picture what campus life is like? I lived there and have been around Smithies for decades, but I’d never presume to be able to tell others what is was like to be a student, gay, straight or purple. Everyone has a different experience.
Life in the Quad is totally different than life as a Tenneyite etc. We have no right as parents to pontificate about the feelings, influences, likes or dislaike, of any student or Smith as a whole until we ourselves become students and live on campus for--and that tain’t happening</p>

<p>TD, I think it’s great you got an email and helped someone. I wish I could post privates PM’s and emails b/c, I, too, have received PM’s from students sacred to death by comments made here. One I personally know of crossed Smith off her list until I was able to arrange a visit. She sent her deposit to Smith a couple of weeks ago. How many other students were lost that we don’t know about? Fwiw--The woman turned down an Ivy for Smith. Yeahhhhh :)</p>

<p>The fact this woman no longer would consider Smith b/c of scare tactics, or wishful thinking by some, however, thankfully changed her mind after visiting Smith should solidify in everyone’ psyche there should longer be any discussion or editorials about the gay issue going forward except to say there are gays on campus, some have no problem showing intense affection in public, you need to visit, talk to students, recent alumnae, and decide for yourself if gays have the “huge” influence, as some proclaim (it's easy enough to find the posts) on Smith’s student life. Seriously, TD, I realize men want to believe everything is huge but your idea of huge could very well be nothing more than a ho hum to others.</p>

<p>[[pIf I had my way, Smith would be getting 10,000 applicants/year]]</p>

<p>Then let’s get back to discussing education, Strides, great houses, brilliant women, fun pond (some know what I mean. :) and leave sexuality to those who visit the campus, or contact other students, so they can decide for themselves what to expect and if Smith is right for them. After all, many things posted on this board would /never/ be utterd by an admission officer of or most students. What gives us the right to do so ?:)</p>

<p>I, and most Smithes, still believe it's sad Smith is the only board with extensive gay threads.</p>

<p>I'm finished and I know you love to have to have the last word, so have at it</p>

<p>In my best Paul Harvey voice –Goood day ;)</p>

[stacy]

<p>hey_la,</p>

<p>I'm a queer smithie who's graduating this year. The presence of a large gay population on campus was a big reason why I decided to apply to Smith. So many people (my parents included!) meet the people they spend the rest of their lives with in college, and I wanted to have the best chance to date and meet other gay women. As it turned out, I ended up applying to lots of other schools (no other liberal arts colleges, though) and the decision to come to Smith came down to many factors other than the queer scene--financial aid, research opportunities, the town of Northampton, friendliness of the profs, etc. I basically felt that I'd be happiest at Smith. And I am happy--part of that's due to the queer scene (I didn't meet the love of my life, but I was able to date and had good relationships) but there's a lot more to it than that. I like my professors, and the beauty of the campus, and the ability to succeed here that's helped get me into grad school, and the semester in washington program, and i especially like my friends.</p>

<p>Many of my friends are gay--it's probably about half and half. But it doesn't really matter...my friends have met women I've dated, I've met men and women that they've dated, and there's really no big difference in how a boyfriend v. a girlfriend is treated. I'm happy when my friends are in relationships that make them happy, and they feel the same about me. And our friendships are based on a lot more than who we date--I can talk with my friends about property tax reform or how we feel about graduating or why it would be awesome if one of us got rich one day and endowed a sauna on campus. They're wonderful people who have shaped and enriched my life in ways I probably don't even fully appreciate yet. </p>

<p>So how do I feel about the large gay community at Smith? It's great, but it's more like icing on the cake than the cake itself. How do I feel about reading this thread? I wish people were nicer to each other on it. </p>

<p>Yes, Smith has a reputation as a school with a large gay population. Yes, Smith IS a school with a large gay population. I wouldn't recommend it to a student who is uncomfortable discussing or seeing same-sex relationships. I would urge straight prospective students to consider how important dating is to them, and what they're willing to do meet men (note: it will almost definitely involve going off campus). I'd hope that students of all sexualities would consider what it will be like to not have guys in most of their classes (I'm in an Amherst class this semester that's 2/3 male, and it's different...probably good preparation for the 55/45 male/female ratio in my grad school). What people believe the exact percentage of queer smithies is compared to what it actually is seems pretty tangental.</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>[[So how do I feel about the large gay community at Smith? It's great, but it's more like icing on the cake than the cake itself ended up applying to lots of other schools (no other liberal arts colleges, though) and the decision to come to Smith came down to many factors other than the queer scene--financial aid, research opportunities, the town of Northampton, friendliness of the profs, etc. I basically felt that I'd be happiest at Smith]]</p>

<p>Great post. Love the cake anolagy. Where to after graduation?</p>

[stacy]

<p>ann arbor...joint jd/master's in urban planning. orientation starts 10 days after commencement (eek!)</p>

[recent_alumna]

<p>[[It's not personal, TD, and you know it. It's a different of opinion and who has the right to speak for the Smith student body, and if one is going to make proclamations the veracity of their knowledge.]]</p>

<p>you know who has the right to speak for the smith student body? no one. you have a right to speak about your experience. but that doesn't make you, TD, or anyone else here, including me, an authority. even if someone COULD speak "for the smith student body," it would be a student or an alumna, but even that really isn't possible.</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>ann arbor...joint jd/master's in urban planning. orientation starts 10 days after commencement (eek!)]]</p>

<p>LOL- My roommatefrom a very long time ago was a UM alum. Great school and I luvvvv Ann Arbor.
I did, however, get tired of his insipid complaining about Michigan State though ;)</p>

<p>Another Smithie attorney. Yippee. Great field too. Good luck. :)</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>you know who has the right to speak for the smith student body? no one. you have a right to speak about your experience. but that doesn't make you, TD, or anyone else here, including me, an authority]]]</p>

<p>Thank you, you're absolutely correct--we /can't/ speak for Smith. I’m glad we have settled this. And I’ve never said I was an authority, quite to the contrary. If you have noticed, I’ve <em>never</em> relayed my wife’s experiences because they were her experiences and might or might not be the same as others. Nor have I ever said anything about my daughter's experiences, that's for her to relay. Mine are of a male so are irrelevant, and no one want's the hear about them anyway :)</p>

<p>I have said repeatably /no parent/ can come close to knowing what attending Smith is like and to let Smith speak for Smith. e. g. Admission officers, but mostly the students themselves or very recent alumnae.<br>
When a friend needed some help understanding the culture at Smith, I said nothing but there was more to what she has heard and experienced and said <em>visit</em> again.</p>

<p>Here is also what I said on another post, " I lived there and have been around Smithies for decades, but I’d never presume to be able to tell others what is was like to be a student, gay, straight or purple. Everyone has a different experience.
Life in the Quad is totally different than life as a Tenneyite etc. We have no right as parents to pontificate about the feelings, influences, likes or dislaike, of any student or Smith as a whole until we ourselves become students and live on campus for--and that tain’t happening"</p>

<p>[["for the smith student body," it would be a student or an alumna, but even that really isn't possible.]]</p>

<p>Sure it is, that’s exactly why I encourage a visit and an overnight. After meeting dozens of students and, one would hope, experiencing all the diversity Smith has to offer, a student can then decide if the ‘feel’ of the campus is where they could see themselves for the next 4 yrs.</p>

[recent_alumna]

<p>"I have said repeatably /no parent/ can come close to knowing what attending Smith is like and to let Smith speak for Smith. e. g. Admission officers, but mostly the students themselves or very recent alumnae.
When a friend needed some help understanding the culture at Smith, I said nothing but there was more to what she has heard and experienced and said <em>visit</em> again."</p>

<p>i appreciate hearing that. it's a sentiment i don't hear much from folks here. i hang out on the board occasionally to answer questions for prospectives--i am also an alumna volunteer for admissions--but the stuff i read, often from parents, really raises my blood pressure sometimes.</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>[[appreciate hearing that. it's a sentiment i don't hear much from folks here. i hang out on the board occasionally to answer questions for prospectives--but the stuff i read, often from parents, really raises my blood pressure sometimes.]</p>

<p>I know who you are, and I wish there were dozens more like you. :) </p>

<p>I suppose it's your personal affair, but I'm sure some current and future students would love to hear what you're doing after Smith.</p>

[recent_alumna]

<p>[[I know who you are, and I wish there were dozens more like you.]]</p>

<p>really?! i thought i was opaque about it, but i suppose not. you've probably read something i've written while working for smith. i know a couple current students who post here, too. (hi, stacy.)</p>

<p>i'm working for a nonprofit right now but am starting my Ph.D. in a humanities discipline at a major research university in the fall.</p>

[roadlesstraveled]

<p>[[thought i was opaque about it]]</p>

<p>An opaque Smithie--Don't believe that's possible :)</p>

<p>[i'm working for a nonprofit right now but am starting my Ph.D. in a humanities discipline at a major research university in the fall.]</p>

<p>LOL--Had a friend over last night who has worked for non-profits for 25 years. She wouldn't have it any other way. She does miss Northampton though. She lived there for years. Thanks for the info, I'm impressed. Students like you, Stacy, Mini's kid, are a great represention of what Smithies can accomplish.</p>