<p>My son has a classmate who has 1900 SATs and is barely in the top fifth of his class; but is one of the top juniors in his sport.
He just got accepted by a college whose average SATs are 2250.</p>
<p>I went to a similar college and the jocks were academically well qualified; but that was a few years ago. Have things changed dramatically, or is this an anomaly?</p>
<p>well, that does sound odd but not impossible depending on the quality of the athlete and the particular sport. The ivies do have to meet an academic index (there is an objective formula by which to calculate this) but i’m not sure if the AI is for individual player, team, or athletic department overall. For sure, the academically stronger athletes are often used to balance the less qualified…I know of a Princeton recruit who was encouraged to apply ED so that they could use his fantastic academic scores to help recruit a significantly less academically qualified (academically) athlete who was much more desirable as an athlete.</p>
<p>Also, there’s no question that the averages are not the same for all sports. The “prep school sports” such as: fencing, squash, rowing have higher AI requirements than say, football. </p>
<p>Essentially, one needs to accept that excellence means different things to different ppl. Clearly athletic prowess is duly considered a form of achievement worth pursuing.</p>
<p>It is a major Ivy and a prep school sport; which is why I thought it was so queer. I might have understood if it was basketball.</p>
<p>Responding a bit to your issue of how AI is distributed; 6 years ago a major Ivy coach in a prep school sport hoped my older son would improve a bit so he could be recruited. Since he was fully qualified academically it would enhance his chances of getting marginal recruits in; so apparently it is by the team. </p>
<p>But the boy I was talking about doesn’t seem even marginal. He is really good though.</p>
<p>Seeing an athlete with a 1900 SAT get into a top flight academic school is not uncommon depending on the sport. I wouldn’t say this practice is new either. Since the school you are mentioning is an Ivy League, your son’s friend’s acceptance shouldn’t be a surprise to you since his stats match up nicely to what the AI(Academic Index) equate to a recruitable athlete. You will usually find athletes with lower stats in the revenue sports like football, basketball, hockey, and sometimes baseball. The sports such fencing swimming, squash, and the like usually have athletes with higher stats to balance out those athletes with lower stats.</p>
<p>Ivy coaches will sometimes sacrifice a bit on an athlete with weak academics if he or she is REALLY talented. Ivy coaches don’t like taking these risks, because if the recruit doen’t get accepted, the coach loses some credibility with the admissions office. Ivy coaches play a fine line when it comes to recruiting.</p>
<p>Yes, the coach will certainly try to get the most gifted player that he/she can but at the academically competitive schools they do actually think ahead and try to avoid situations where a player will cause problems down the road…that said, they will do all they can to recruit the best.</p>
<p>In the ivies in particular, it is rare for there to be a surprise regarding admissions since they all get pre-read in the admissions office and so many of the prospective athletes are issued likely letters. parents need to beware of a coach who “assures” admission but hesitates to get the kid a letter. the letter can only be given by admissions! </p>
<p>my guess is the kid is a top talent and perhaps had a strong gpa? it is true that some schools, when considering gpa for athletes do not care about the rigor of the courseload. it’s a numbers game; an A in basic is better than a B in AP or honors. of course at other schools, they can get it all, grades, scores, and talent. the way of the world…</p>
<p>korona: care to name either sport or school? both would be great but may be tmi??</p>
<p>
Mythbuster time: Fencing isn’t a prep school sport. It seems like it should be, but the truth is, there isn’t a prep school in the country with a competitive program. There are no decent public HS programs, either. It’s a club sport. Unlikely as it may sound, ALL college recruits come from club programs.</p>
<p>thank you, i stand (en guarde) corrected…guess the perception is there. assuming it’s expensive however - lots of private lessons and far flung tourneys?? also, without support of a school program - even more$$</p>
<p>some sports such as squash do field hs teams but the competition for recruiting is almost entirely individual - again, private lessons, lots of family traveling to trnmts etc.</p>
<p>korona,</p>
<p>I’m also a little surprised in reading this thread. Non-revenue sport with 1900 SAT super-score just isn’t the norm in my experience. As grizzman25 suggests he may be super-talented. I can’t help to wonder if the student/recruit has another hook?</p>
<p>My son had a HS classmate who was recruited by Harvard for football last year, and he barely broke 1800 on his SAT’s.</p>
<p>That doesn’t sound too farfetched, korona. A 1900 SAT could conceivably be 650 math and CR scores. Every Ivy coach we talked to wanted 700 or better - but in certain sports at certain schools, a big impact player could be welcome with those marks.
(Although he may not be a happy camper once the schoolwork begins)</p>
<p>I am being deliberately vague; can’t risk blowback from either the student or the school.</p>
<p>He has taken a very easy schedule, so the GPA is artificially high. If they ignore the easy schedule, he might look more qualified.
God help him once he gets there, as I don’t think the school will do anything special for him. Will they? I know an equally talented boy who went to the same school, but was somewhat better qualified; maybe 2100 SATs. He struggled badly because the sport took up so much time.</p>
<p>Generally no special tutors or study sessions for athletes that one might find at a scholarship school. But it’s hard to predict academic success based on SAT scores. If he’s a self-disciplined kid with a good work ethic - he’ll probably do just fine. (He’ll be working his *ss off, no doubt)</p>
<p>With respect to AI, I believe that football is handled differently from the other sports. In any sport, AI is compared to the median AI of the current freshman class. In football, 8 recruits can be within 1 standard deviation of that mean, 13-14 can be 2 standard deviations from the mean, and 7-8 more can be 2.5 standard deviations from the mean. Then there can be two “anchormen” who simply are above the League minimum of 171. What that might mean practically is that, say, at Brown, the median freshman AI is 208. 8 recruits can be between 194 and 208 (that’s roughly about how much a SD might be in that population). 13-14 can be between 180 and 194, 7-8 can be between 174 and 180, and 2 can be between 171 (again, the league minimum for football) and 174. The reason for this “banding” is to keep teams from cheating by having a handful of really high AI kids so that the whole team averages out within acceptable levels.<br>
The way it works for all other sports is simply that the aggregate of all slotted, recruited athletes must be within one standard deviation of the mean. That means, in the example cited above, the whole group must average at least a 197 AI.<br>
In the case of your friend, only 2/3 of that 1900 SAT score is relevant: the CR and Math scores. That comprises 1/3 of the AI. Another third comes from his SAT II scores–do you know what those were? The last third comes from his class rank. If he got 640s on his CR and Math, got 650s on a couple SAT II’s, and was in the top 10% of his class, his AI would be in the low 190’s.
I’m no genius on this topic. Just know what I’ve read on the Internet and in talking with coaches. Here’s a link to my source for the numbers in the example above [Calculating</a> the Ivy League Academic Index](<a href=“http://home.comcast.net/~charles517/ivyai.html]Calculating”>http://home.comcast.net/~charles517/ivyai.html)</p>
<p>Why would an athletes score/gpa higher or lower than the avg. or mean be any different from a legacy admission? I see throughout this thread the assumption is made that athletic admissions are tainted and everyone else is deserving, which nothing can be further from the truth. In a typical class of 400,only 15 or fewer athletic admits are truly below the mean, whereas 50-80 spots are reserved for legacies regardless of their qualifications, then you your truly qualified admits which don’t all get the remaining spots so roughly 60% of any years admits are in are truly qualified at any school—especially Ivies the military academies where legacy/traditional admits are so imortant. </p>
<p>So, it’s not the athletes it’s the legacies that are taking the spots that marginal athletes and superstar students aren’t getting.</p>
<p>From what I’ve seen it’s a little different than what schoolhouse is saying. I think athletes, especially in the helmet sports, are given a little more leeway than legacies. Of course I might be wrong.</p>
<p>@ Sherpa:</p>
<p>For the most part, that is correct. However, there are many High School programs in the North East that produce competitive collegiate fencers, specifically those in New Jersey.</p>
<p>…regarding post #7</p>
<p>legacies have only a tie-breaker advantage–that’s all. many legacies to ivies are admitted bc-- they come from bright families, they have gone to good schools and the have been pushed since early childhood–just the type of kid, regardless of the legacy background that would appeal to an ivy adcom. the data – as opposed to the anecdotal stories-- doesn’t support otherwise. there may be the occasional development office kid (and by that i mean a family who as given HIGH 7 and even 8 figures (yep THAT high)) but how many in a class of 1400 do you think they are???
Many colleges-- Brown and Yale are the most recent examples, are reducing significantly the number of athletic “tips” in their entering classes. Of course that will still mean that some applicant with numbers that are out of the mainstream of the class average will be admitted (and not always in so-called “helmet sports”) but these kids are becoming more the exception than the rule.<br>
In the NESCAC schools, no coach can even look at a kid unless the adcom has given a green light that the applicant is within the profile of the class–not a standard deviation below, but within the profile. the ivies are going that way for all but the unusual recruit.<br>
so how much does athletics mean? given that about 70% of applicants to HYP or AWS are within the profile, and very few of them get admitted regardless, actually quite a good deal. It is still more than the french horn player or the talented poet. The only other group would be the IMO type kid whose verbal scores are horrible but is clearly, as in Harvard’s case, a Math 55’er. They get a break. (actually the harvard math department gives a list of their top kids–much like the hockey coach would do–to the adcom…)</p>
<p>It is NOT in a coach’s best interest to have a athlete who is not adequately qualified for the academics. Students with truly sub-par credentials aren’t worth the trouble because either they will lose their academic eligibility from failing classes and won’t be able to play for the team anyway, or they will have to regularly burn the midnight oil in their struggle to pass. If the latter, their bodies will break down in exhaustion and/or injury and they won’t play for that reason.</p>
<p>That said, a 1900 SAT student at an Ivy or Stanford will likely be able to pass with C’s and B-'s. It’s very hard to get A’s at a top school, but similarly it’s really hard to fail out too, from anecdotal reports.</p>