<p>As is customary around this time of year, a lot of people in my senior year are talking about applying to university. I overheard one of my colleagues saying that he wants to apply to Princeton, and he thinks he'll get in based on just being a good lacrosse player. I asked him how that will help his chances, (besides being a nice EC) and he says that he's knows that it'll lower the required SAT for him. He said something about just getting an 1800 and he'll feel confident about his chances.</p>
<p>Now, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought none of the Ivy League schools accepted applicants based on their sports? I understand that a long time sports player may have something to right about when it comes to extra curriculars, but isn't that where it ends? I'm interested in understanding how it works just to see how the process works for those who dedicate a lot of time to athletics. </p>
<p>Ivies recruit athletes just like any other school. Ivies do expect all recruited athletes to have strong academic records, but athletes are generally given more leeway when it comes to test scores and GPA. If one is a good enough athlete to get recruited, it means much more than just another EC. It’s an enormous hook and can very well be the reason they’re accepted.</p>
<p>The Ivy League has a policy that every recruited athlete must meet a minimum Academic Index (AI) number, and the average AI of all recruited athletes must meet a different minimum number, which varies by school and is a function of the AI of the general student population. Harvard, Yale, and Princeton students have the highest overall AIs, so the standards for athletes are higher there than for the other Ivy League schools. Some recruited athletes have AIs higher than the average for their school, some about the same, and others lower. Generally speaking, football players have the lowest AIs of all athletes, but of course there are exceptions.</p>
<p>The real benefit of being a strong athlete comes when your AI is at or above the schools average. That was the case with my son. His AI was higher than the average at any school, and he was highly ranked in his sport. Students like him have the luxury of choosing where they’d like to study.</p>
<p>The Harvard coaches throw an expression around: “Other schools recruit. Harvard chooses.” But it’s hardly true. Harvard recruited DS, but HE chose Princeton.</p>
<p>Edited to add: The elements that go into the AI calculation are GPA (or class rank), SAT( or ACT), and Subject Test scores. In my son’s case they were 1/330, 35, 800/790. If he hadn’t have been a recruited athlete, he would have had decent chances, but athletics can be a game changer.</p>
<p>Ahh, I see. Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. This does slightly modify my views of these schools. I don’t think schools with credentials such as Ivys should allow certain students to fly under the radar when it comes to grades just because they’re good athletes. But to each his own. </p>
<p>Building on this, are the lowered expectations as low as my buddy was saying? He was shooting for an 1800 on the SAT (he never mentioned subject tests). From what I garner going through the application process myself and reading this forum for a while, an 1800 is basically a death sentence to any Ivy League application.</p>
<p>@CheesyMonkey: your LAX player friend is blowing smoke. Top programs are eying freshmen and have top recruits committed as juniors. </p>
<p>Although Princeton isn’t a tippy top program, they aren’t talking to him. Why?
Princeton is in clear communications with a select few who will BE recruited. At best, your buddy, if somehow he attained the fantastical SATs and GPA and got admitted, MIGHT be a walk-on for Princeton – and he’d be eclipsed by the starter-recruits who have been excelling for 10+ years.</p>
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<p>They have to meet standards. No one is flying in under the radar.</p>
<p>As far as nods to athletes, to the Ivies (and many LACs), this is just one sub-group. Would you agree that it’s terribly difficult to find a super high performing opera singer as a college applicant? If available, would a college be amiss to not compare her with the bulk of 30K applicants and instead ensure that she has a minimum level of academic achievement and potential and try then, to woo her to be part of that college’s community? Is this wrong? Many private colleges practice what’s called “category admissions”</p>
<p>Basically, the college decides in advance, how many slots go to which teams or which other sub-groups such as international applicants. They are not available to the general applicant. If you applied to Princeton, you’d NEVER be in the same pool as the int’l students. That last marginal int’l applicant Princeton decides to admit did not take away a slot from a “general” applicant. He took the slot of the next int’l applicant who was just one excel cell lower than his.</p>
<p>@CheesyMonkey “This does slightly modify my views of these schools. I don’t think schools with credentials such as Ivys should allow certain students to fly under the radar when it comes to grades just because they’re good athletes.”</p>
<p>Believe me, nobody is flying under the radar. Sherpa gave a great overview on the academic requirements of Ivy athletes. My daughter graduated from Harvard with honors and was a recruited athlete. Like Sherpa’s son - her academics in HS would have given her a decent chance in the general applicant pool, but being a nationally ranked athlete in addition to strong academics was a powerful combination. </p>
<p>You have to understand, the subset of top athletes with great academics is very small. Harvard (and the rest of the league) believes that these individuals can bring value to the college and student body. If that lowers your opinion of the Ivy League (which is an athletic conference), there are colleges out there that admit almost solely on test scores and GPA without consideration of the other unique talents that the applicant may bring. </p>
<p>I know that the minimum AI for the Ivies is something like 176. I also understand that there are program and team averages that get derived from the average AI of the non-athlete population, and the concept of bands. One question that I have that I haven’t been able to answer is, is there an individual minimum AI for each school, based on the overall AI of the school?</p>
<p>In other words, just as program AIs and team AIs are based on X number of standard deviations below the school’s norm, is there a minimum AI value that applies to all athletes that is based on the school’s overall AI that is above the Ivy minimum of 176?</p>
<p>My son is in the enviable position of being recruited for athletics by HYP in addition to other Ivies and DI schools. GPA 4.0. ACT 34 SAT II 780/780. Each coach asked he apply to their school and he has applied for admission to the 2019 class with HY&P. EA to one and RD to the other two. I’m curious why all three Ivy League coaches were begging him to apply EA? What difference would it make? </p>
<p>cocotoo - The Ivy’s have an early admission feature commonly referred to as a “likely letter”. These letters, when used for recruited athletes, are only sent out during the early admission process. The letter essentially states that the school will be offering admission in December and the letters go out well before that date. Likely letters are also used for regular admission but not for athletic recruiting. My frame of reference is Yale although the peer Ivy’s probably do the same. I believe at Yale about 25% of the early admits are recruited athletes. Pretty much all of Yale’s athletes come in through early admission. You can assume that your kid will get admitted to his EA choice but is not likely to be admitted as an athlete at the other two schools since they will have completed freshmen recruitment by then.</p>
<p>@notjoe, the league-wide rule states that the mean AI of all recruited athletes must fall within 1 standard deviation of the mean AI of the general student body at each particular school. It also stipulates that no athlete can be recruited with an AI below 176. Within those parameters, each school, athletic department and team may set their own guidelines. It may be that Yale swimming, for example, doesn’t go after kids under 210 but maybe Yale hockey can take a couple guys in the 180s. (Just picked those teams at random, I don’t know their actual guidelines). </p>
<p>I think the truth of the matter is that while a 176 is theoretically possible to recruit and remain in compliance, you’re unlikely to find many Ivy athletes that are anywhere near that floor. </p>
<p>Okay, thanks. So, what I’m getting is that the only floor that absolutely applies to any individual athlete is 176. I imagine that there would be few, if any athletes, that would be that low. Using a calculator available on the Internet, that computes to something along the lines of a 3.0 with a 1700 SAT and 570+ on two SAT subject tests.</p>
<p>There were two gentlemen in my son’s graduating class this year who were recruited to Ivies, and I know that their objective scores and grades looked a lot closer to the overall average of their schools than to the scores that would yield a 176.</p>
<p>From what I’ve seen at our high school, folks who are recruited to the Ivies are just moving from one group - “qualified applicant with a typical [low] chance of admission” - to another group - “qualified applicant who is all but guaranteed admission.” It’s a big step up, but we’re still dealing with the universe of top-tier students.</p>
<p>“From what I’ve seen at our high school, folks who are recruited to the Ivies are just moving from one group - “qualified applicant with a typical [low] chance of admission” - to another group - “qualified applicant who is all but guaranteed admission.” It’s a big step up, but we’re still dealing with the universe of top-tier students.”</p>
<p>There are a few exceptions, but in general I think that’s an accurate statement.</p>
<p>Athletes don’t “fly under the radar.” If anything, it’s the opposite. The athletes at each of the schools are required, by league rules, to have certain AIs. The schools is allowed to have a certain number within 2 SDs of the school average, and certain number within 1 SD.</p>
<p>If a student isn’t an athlete, the school can do anything it wants.</p>