3/1: Deleted since this is all just debating now and not a discussion. I hope everyone has a good day.
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Deleted.
I’m out.
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This discussion is hanging on by a gossamer thread. Are we really trying to get it closed by responding to an earlier post with snark?
I’ve really been thinking about the original question - within the admittedly limited confines - of my own kids and their cohorts. Of their friends I’ve met - and there have been quite a few - I’m just not seeing a high level of existential angst. None of these kids (yes, to me they will all - always - be kids) are sticking their heads in the sand. It isn’t a case of being unaware. Some have launched more successfully than others. Some are still struggle with really standing on their own two feet.
So…I wonder if the angst isn’t another example of a social contagion.
Years ago I had a very close friend. In retrospect I see things in that friendship which weren’t good for general mental health - and that could be a thread in and of itself. When Friend and I were together we groused. About everything and anything. I found fault and disharmony in my marriage. I was angry at politicians. I saw us running off a cliff from environmental destruction. And the list could go on. I was what I chose to surround myself with…
So…maybe the kids that are seeing mainly darkness in the world are reinforcing those thoughts by surrounding themselves with like minded individuals. As I said before - we do so love our echo chambers. They give us validation and they provide a tribe.
Maybe certain college environments reinforce this type of ‘all is poo’ thinking. Maybe certain paths of study (grievance studies) reinforce the thinking. I’m tempted to expound on that theory but am enjoying the thread and don’t want it closed 
And I do wonder if ones’ own geography plays a roll. It’s pretty hard to be down on life if your attending - say UCSB - and you spend 4 years looking at the beach and birds and sunshine and beauty. On the other hand…a dreary exterior (looking at you North East) could be challenging in the best of times. Now add the lock downs of COVID and it seems like a recipe for a group case of ‘the blues’.
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Dreary exterior? You do know that we have parks and woods and mountains and hiking trails and yes- beaches- too cold to swim, but plenty of trails and boardwalks beside the water (which is GORGEOUS in winter) and of course- our world famous foliage which attracts tourists from all over the world in September/October and November?
And Arnold Arboretum in Boston, Bronx Botanical Garden, Brooklyn Botanical Garden, the entire Berkshire region, Acadia National Park, bike trails galore- do you really think the entire Northeast is “dreary”?
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I’ve lived here my entire life and about this time of year I’m over it!
I’ve been thinking about this thread a lot since my earlier comments about how geopolitics impacted ME growing up, but never mentioned how they impact my D. For her, I think she is not so much impacted by geo-political events, but instead by threats of violence in our own country.
When she was in middle school we lived the town over from a mass shooting, and while that was unfolding the police surrounded her school because they didn’t know whether the shooting was part of a bigger terror plot. And of course the teachers were trying their best but were crying, and the kids had iPads and were watching it unfold. This was a huge blow to our peaceful community. Many of the area families became very involved with volunteerism and making the community a better and stronger place.
The next threat of violence came after we moved, and my H started working in a violent neighborhood, so we were constantly worried about him. And even at my D’s new HS which was in a nice area, they shut down multiple times because there were armed robbers being chased by police in the area. And even at the mall we go to all the time, there was a shooting the day after we were there shopping.
My D let me know that Freshman year at college, she was outside walking with friends and heard popping sounds. Her friends started laughing at her because she hit the ground immediately and scrambled behind a brick wall. She’s got a great attitude because she was immediately able to come back and let them know that they’ve got to get real.
And then in college her friend was raped. By another student, but with force.
So, it’s not the “geo” that’s shaped her world, but what’s happening right here. I think that for her, she was positively influenced by her middle school experience, because she saw the community rally together and a commitment to volunteerism. For my D, the way she is trying to make an impact is through all her volunteering as a EMT during the pandemic, and her goal of being an ER doc to help save lives. Her experiences have not negatively impacted her desire to have kids and move forward with her life, and I attribute that to the response of “let’s make a difference”.
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Dreary exterior…
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Always amazed at the number of people who are pretty much miserable for 3-4 months every year where they live. I love our midwest winters. North of 50 inches a year of snow is great. Skiing, sledding, hiking, etc. Love the change of seasons. Wouldn’t want to live anywhere without that. But different people prefer different things.
Ultimately, I think geopolitical events always shape young adults (older adults too). There is a certain ebb and flow to it though. And some will be more impacted than others. Perception and reality play roles (as they do in so much of everything else). I think there are a lot of societal changes as well that have big impacts. My son has been dating someone longer than I did my wife before we got married. But he is still younger than I was when I got married. Assume at some point they will get married and likely have kids but not sure they have decided at this point. They are both in stable jobs and doing well. To me, I would wait a little longer to settle into life but that is their decision. Daughter in grad school who isn’t really thinking about kids at this point though she has said she would like to have at least one. We shall see.
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Sorry this was not intended as a insult. FWIW…I go thru an internal down period every year when the days get shorter…and then another slump when the clocks get change in winter.
My home town of San Francisco becomes a ‘dreary exterior’ for months upon months in the summer…when the fog rolls into certain areas and seems to stay forever. It is just all grey.
I, and I know there are others, would have a difficult time in a more nordic attitude. SAD is a very real thing.
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Peace. But even here in the Northeast we know how to counteract SAD. I live in a neighborhood where you can walk… 10 minutes to a supermarket, drugstore, excellent bakery (so you have to walk to counteract the muffins!), library, etc. Or just a quick walk around the block, when even during Deep Covid (masks and for some of the older neighbors, surgical gloves) you could stop for a socially distanced chat. It is rare to get two days in a row of weather so bad you can’t walk… even after a snow, the sun comes out and it’s glorious as long as you are bundled up!
I’ve got in-laws in the Sunbelt and they comment that we get more outdoor time (all four seasons) than they do. They go to the gym, they walk at the local mall-- but nobody is outside. They live in subdivisions where there is no place to go! I once said 'Don’t you just wander over to the library in the early evening?" and they hooted with laughter.
SAD is real but in New England folks go outside!!!
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I’m in the process of reading an Historic Mystery series call the “Maisie Dobbs” novels by Jaqueline Winspear. They start in the late 1920’s in London. There are a lot of flashbacks to pre WW1 England, the war, the results of the war etc. I’m now about 9 books in and we are seeing the rise of Naziism in Germany but also it’s influence in England. What I like about the novels is my sense of omniscience. I know what is happening (and is going to happen geopolitically wise) but the author does a good job of presenting the material from the standpoint of the population of the times.
What I get out of this is that I feel like we all live like this in times of stress. We don’t know but we speculate. It’s important to be as vigilant as possible while living productive lives. The uncertainty shouldn’t make us withdraw from the world. That won’t change or take away our problems. It is also true that these times, pandemic, wars and rumors of wars do shape us both young and not so young. What we can’t do is use it as an excuse.
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@melvin123 This x1000. My son chose a similar path, on a similar timeline. He sees some of the worst things society can throw at a person. He’s reached a point where it’s difficult to rattle him. Everything he does with the rescue squad is completely unpaid. He is doing what he’s wired to do for the benefit of his college town and the surrounding county. When you’re administering NARCAN to practically dead twenty-somethings, or treating a GSW while S.W.A.T. runs by, it tends to put things into perspective. He’s less focused on polar ice cap integrity and distant despots than he is on the “golden hour” for his patients, and how to best help them reach the medical care they desperately need. He can’t stop sea level from rising 10" by 2030, but he’ll deliver your baby in an ambulance doing 60 mph, or bring your dad back to life at the mall. Everyone needs to find a way to contribute to the world they inhabit. Control what you can control. Apply your knowledge and skills where and when they’re most needed. Make a difference in the best way you are equipped to help.
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There are, today, many reasons to feel pessimistic.
The world goes through these cycles. The 1930s were a time of extreme pessimism, which turned out to be justified, but so were the 1970s. People who are only families with the 1970s through TV shows of the period, or TV shows set in the period, are not always familiar with just how pessimistic the mood was in the USA.
However, most of the fears of the 1970s turned out to be unfounded. Crime dropped, there is extensive revitalization of cities, the Cold War ended without a nuclear holocaust, and new sources of energy, especially renewable energy, means that countries and organizations which control access to petroleum have a lot less influence on world politics.
Whether it turns out to be the 1970s or the 1930s remains to be seen, but this is not some new phenomenon.
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I would not characterize most of my kids or their friends who are concerned about climate change as consumed by existential angst over the future. They live their lives, see friends, proceed with careers, have fun and are not consumed by this. One of mine can get very triggered with anxiety over climate change and what it may mean, but has been better able to control it lately. One can be concerned and aware, but not consumed. They are not seeing mostly darkness. They are not down on their lives, but concerned about what we are doing to the planet and frustrated by those that pretend it is not happening.
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I don’t remember pervasive pessimism in the 70s. I was around then. I mean there was some but that was not the main vibe I remember.
I easily recall being in a school play in 3rd grade.
We all placed a large black trash bag over our head and cut out arm holes to fashion ourselves as “ oil drops”.
This was 1977-78.
I recall thinking at the time how odd it was to dress up as an oil drop and dance across the school stage….but had no clue of the context. I would love to know how the teacher introduced the theme to us and how the parents reacted, etc. 
High unemployment, high inflation, high oil (gasoline) prices (when cars struggled to get 10mpg), high pollution (very obvious out of car exhaust pipes), increasing crime (now known to be associated with emissions from leaded gasoline fueled cars), the usual threat of nuclear war, recent memory of an unpopular failed war that many unwillingly fought in, the recent memory of a President resigning under threat of impeachment for obviously corrupt acts.
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