<p>At some point, DS will be applying to graduate school in the hard sciences. For those of you who have kids who have already been down that road, what are some tips about what was most important for success in that endeavor? What does it take to get into a selective graduate school? What would your son/dau do differently, given the choice?</p>
<p>[Yes, I know, getting my offspring into graduate school is not my job, or, strictly speaking, my business. I just like to know these things.]</p>
<p>The single most important thing my Dd did that eased her way into grad school was establishing a relationship with a mentor professor in her junior year in college. After two years of coursework, an advanced class or two and a senior project with this prof, she established herself as a serious student with something to offer within the field.<br>
Dd had excellent grades and gre scores, but it was this prof’s rec ( along with two other strong recommendations) that made the difference among the many other equally qualified candidates, in her opinion.</p>
<p>Get excellent grades (3.6 and up) and get at least a summer’s worth of research experience. Getting reasonably high GRE scores is important too (~2100 out of 2400.)</p>
<p>If you get published that will help a lot.</p>
<p>If you are doing something theoretical, grades become more important. For engineering, I think grades are more important than research experience. For chem and bio, research is very important.</p>
<p>If your kid isn’t already in college, choosing a university which has a good grad program will help because the professor’s recs will carry more weight. These aren’t necessarily “top” colleges. In fact, about half of the top 10 schools in many science depts. are state flagships; it’s probably more than than that for engineering.</p>
<p>For chemistry, I know a guy with 3.3/4.0 at a state school (with a top 10 chem program.) He had some research experience, although I don’t know if he got published, and his GRE general scores were very high. He got into a top 3 grad school in chemistry.</p>
<p>The GRE subject scores can really separate the wheat from the chaff in chem and physics. They are fairly hard, so you can distinguish yourself there. It’s a good idea to take a look at how hard it is a few years before you take it–basically, to nail it you’ve got to basically remember every orgo reaction you encountered, plus of course some other topics. </p>
<p>It would help if you had an idea of what field you are talking about. The fields are a all a little different; some people have specific knowledge about certain fields.</p>
<p>My husband interviews people for the PhD part of a MD/PHd program. He’s always amazed at how many of the students he interviews who have worked in labs don’t seem to be explain how what they did fit into the big picture. Some of the students had good letters, but if they can’t talk about their work in an intelligent way they are out.</p>
<p>If by grad school you are talking PhD, your transcript and GREs seem to be a threshold component, once you meet that grad school’s threshold and those numbers are a less critical part of the admissions process. Rather they seem to focus on your fitness to the program, your research experience, strong LORs (specific to your goal, not just ‘he’s a great kid’); they seem to want to see that you have taken time to know what you are getting yourself info, that you are prepared to be a successful PhD student. Some professor’s funding will be paying your stipend, they want someone who has explored the field, who will be a productive member of the lab and not some one who drops out.</p>
<p>Agree with collegealum314. It’s a good idea for your son to gain research experience during the academic year, if at all possible, in addition to summer research. The academic-year research could be done for credit, or on a voluntary basis. Your son can probably be paid to do research during the summer (depending on the number of years of undergrad work completed), but it’s worthwhile for him to do it, even if unpaid. It is not essential to have publications in print from undergraduate research, but it does help if the letters of recommendation indicate that the student will be a co-author on a manuscript down the road.</p>
<p>Aside from a primary mentor, it is useful to have additional professors (preferably at least 2) who have some knowledge of your son’s accomplishments.</p>
<p>Your son should plan to apply for fellowships, particular the NSF Pre-Doctoral fellowships and others that may be applicable, depending on field. Normally students apply for the NSF fellowships in the fall of the senior year in college. Students can also apply as first-year graduate students. It is worthwhile for a student to have his “own” funds, even though science Ph.D. programs tend to be fully funded. A faculty member has to have $60,000+ in annual research support for a single graduate student. A student who brings his own money with him will have easier access to join the particular research group he wants.</p>
<p>It would be a good idea to visit the grad schools of interest ahead of time. Summer after the junior year is fine for this. Your son can talk with faculty he might work with, talk with grad students about the program, and get a feel for the area and the living costs.</p>
<p>When application time rolls around, it is a good idea for your son to be specific about the particular faculty member(s) (maybe 2 or 3) whose research is of interest to him, and whose groups he’d like to join. This information can be included at some point in the application, normally in a statement of research interests. This is also the place to mention how the undergraduate research that the student has done relates to future research plans/interests.</p>
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<p>It’s always worthwhile to understand how one’s research fits into the big picture. However, I would just mention that biology and biochem are the only technical fields I am aware of that have an interview. </p>
<p>To expand on QM’s post, I’ve heard NSF Fellows can go anywhere they want for grad school. Even if a school rejects you, you can call them up and say “I just won the NSF,” and they’ll let you come (or, like I said, that’s what I heard.) Of course, this is partly because the NSF Fellowship is pretty exclusive, but not everyone who gets this is really academic star (though most have GPA’s 3.8-4.0 range.) </p>
<p>A year’s worth of research experience, including one summer, is considered a decent amount of research for applying to grad school.</p>
<p>It was very helpful for me to contact professors whom I was interested in working with, briefly introducing myself, my experience and my research interests. I have little doubt that I would not have been accepted at the number and calibre of programs I was if I hadn’t made that effort. Note that the process is not about asking “will I get accepted?” but about “am I a good fit with your program?”</p>
<p>The usual caveats apply - this is anecdata and probably field-specific. I am a (funded) master’s student in outdoor recreation management, and have heard from others that in some fields, it’s considered taboo to contact professors prior to being accepted.</p>
<p>Also, a correction to a previous poster - GRE scores are not out of 2400. Historically, the top score was 1600 - the writing score was on a separate system with half-point increments topping out at 6.0. That component of the GRE was widely considered useless by gradcoms and unless you got a score indicating illiteracy (sub-3, mainly) it was essentially ignored.</p>
<p>The new GRE is in a range from 130 to 170… why, I couldn’t tell you. And nobody knows what “good” and “bad” scores are yet, because they haven’t been normed.</p>
<p>I can’t tell you how much I appreciate all the thoughtful responses here. I watch the grad school section of this site, but somehow I always fall back on the Parents Forum to find what I need. I don’t know whether many of the actual grad students are just too busy to write much on that forum, whether parents just understand better from other parents, or maybe after some age we integrate the information into more clearly understandable chunks.</p>
<p>Whatever, it is, once again, thank you.</p>
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I don’t think the new GRE is graded lke that - so you want the equivalent I suppose (whatever that is).</p>
<p>[GRE</a> Revised General Test: Scores](<a href=“http://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/scores/]GRE”>GRE General Test Scores)</p>
<p>I’ve never applied to a grad program in the sciences, but from what I’ve noticed on assorted physics and engineering message boards many of the applicants to the top schools have perfect or very near perfect general math scores. THey don’t seem to think it’s that tough. I always seem to miss something in math, but I agreee that conceptually it’s not that tough. Verbal scores, OTOH, are all over the board.</p>
<p>As far as the subject exams - I’m not sure how it is graded now, but back when I was reading about them they were 900 points and most successful applicants had 800+. At least that’s what I rememb er. THey have plenty of message boards around for people applying specifically for these exams.</p>
<p>Here’s one for physics,</p>
<p><a href=“==> Sticky: 2011 Applicant Profiles and Admission Results - Physics GRE Discussion Forums”>==> Sticky: 2011 Applicant Profiles and Admission Results - Physics GRE Discussion Forums;
<p>I’m sure there’s something similar for chem -
(I just found this googling Physics gre (obviously, since that’s the name of the site)</p>
<p>And now that I read this, it doesn’t look like 800+ is that common on the physics GRE. Not sure where I got that? Not even sure it’s out of 900 anymore. But it looks like you need to be above the 70% to have a decent shot.</p>
<p>I think it is all about orientation: why should the person reading the application think you’ll be a good future colleague. Good GPA, GREs, etc., get you into the game, but don’t answer that question.</p>
<p>Another bit of advice is to write that you are going to do research in the subfield in which you did your undergrad research. Plenty of people switch, but you really have no idea if that is going to pan out, so they want to admit people who are excited about doing what they have experience with.</p>
<p>As far as research goes, look into the NSF’s REU program. My DS passed on more lucrative internships to participate in one every summer. In addition to the research experience he gained, it broadened his pool of possible recommenders.</p>
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<p>It depends on the subject test. Some are curved harder than others. For the general test, you should get an 800 on the math; the critical reading part people don’t care about too much as long as you do ok (above 550/800.) The writing no one cares; just try not to do atrocious.</p>