Getting through to sons that hard work is important

Parent Cafe
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<p>I have twin boys, high functioning autism/aspergers, very bright. 11th graders. I have tried to get them to understand that getting good grades now is so important, that this is their future. That they need to work harder, put in more effort instead of just "being done". They are both bright, one excels to a greater degree and is in a few honors classes. I have taken them to visit some colleges to focus them - get their eye on the ball, all for naught. They are both capable of getting straight As but they are only interested in finishing. Getting to their computer, tv time, etc. I took away computer and tv so they wouldnt have anything to rush to..(they only get video games on the weekends) and their guidance counselor told them that I was going overboard...that they need to be able to relax. Hey thanks for having my back. NOT. I did give back to them when their grades started to climb again, as a reward but i know this will make them go back to their old tricks... </p>

<p>My older daughter was the opposite, so I didnt realize how spoiled I was that she was such a self starter and very hard on herself - always wanting to excel. </p>

<p>Help, any ideas?</p>

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<p>Is the difference between “working hard” and “just being done” the difference between A and C (or lower), or A and A-, in terms of quality of work?</p>

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<p>If the guys are focused on “getting done”, are they also ready to be “done” with school? Do they want to take a gap year? Join the military? Get a job? Or do they truly want to go to college?</p>

<p>Given the amount of persuasion you’re having to apply, are they better off staying local?</p>

4

<p>Firstly, I think it’s good to make clear what your expectations are. Secondly, emphasize that you’re looking for quality effort, the striving to do one’s best, not for a particular result. (This seems to work better.) And finally, point out that choices determine outcomes – long-term outcomes, like what kind of life you are planning to have.</p>

<p>At least, these exhortations worked for my bright-but-sometimes-lazy child.</p>

<p>And at the end, don’t forget to emphasize that it’s love and caring that’s driving you to the lecture, not ambition.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>I have 5 sons and none of them have been dxed with aspbergers or anything of the sort. And I have not been able to get the message through to them. I’ve been told that sometimes it take having their kids to get this through their heads. Not very encourageing I know.</p>

6

<p>Choosing your parents well is much more important than hard work.</p>

<p>(not that this helps you much).</p>

<p>Do they program? Their computer time may be more important than anything else (other than the right parents) - think Bill Gates and Larry Ellison and Steve Jobs (LSD would also help - they may currently be on the wrong drugs).</p>

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<p>cpt,
Your post cracked me up. I have 2 Ds who were nearly perfection defined in almost every way…then came the S, who is exactly as OP described.</p>

<p>This made me conclude a few things, which may or may not be true but I hope they are because this is how it was for me: Boys and girls really are different. School caters to girls. Children of the same parents are different and somewhat random. Boys mature later than girls (I hope). Grades and test scores are not the most important things in the world (I hope). There is only so much we parents can do. I’m pretty confident about the last one. :)</p>

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<p>I have two boys that fit the description minus the ‘gaming’ and one that is so on-point sometimes he’s more on-point than I. My oldest, I sent off to college and worried like a good mother during his freshman year and finally stopped worrying. He graduated (to which my H and I at the college graduation were singing hallelujah. He’s working etc. etc. Number is two is on his heels and will graduate a semester early. Double hallelujah. Love the kid(s) on the couch.</p>

<p>School is all about busy work, raising your hand in class, turning homework in religiously, chatting up the teacher…stuff that makes some teenage boys crazy (like my first two). My third is a two letter athlete and he attacks school like a sport. He’ll do everything that is asked and then some…the goal line is a 4.0. Everything about high school appeals to his competitive nature. He totally games the system. </p>

<p>I’m a big believer that within reason…and I mean that…let them be who they are going to be. All three of my kids knew that they "owed’ me a couple hours of study time. One and two would grudgingly and generally in a non-focused manner give me the two hours. My competitive one I’ve never had to ask…he routinely spends more than a couple hours studying. But remember ALL kids need downtime, need exercise, need to do something rather than have their face glued to a computer screen or TV screen…so put some ground rules in place and then stand back and let your boys be who they are going to be (or at least for the next year or so).</p>

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<p>OP, I support you with removing the TV. The GC is right that people need to relax, but who says we need TV to relax? There are many better ways, without the drawbacks. TV seems to hypnotize.</p>

<p>As parents, we must realistically assess the maturity level, and how much our kids depend on us to serve as a superego, before sending them into situations where they will be over their heads. It’s hard to know, because sometimes they do rise to the occasion when Mom’s not around and they have to. But in general, I believe that a HS transcript is generally a fair measure of a kid’s personal combination of ability and willingness, and that it is a reasonable indicator of what that kid can handle immediately after HS. Even when it’s less than what might seem possible if intellect alone were the deciding factor.</p>

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<p>I have a D who always give 200% … and an S who does what he needs to do to get by. It’s frustrating, because he is so smart. He got a 33 on his ACT without any prep or even any thought that it was important (he took it in school, as it is a state requirement). He is in college, and he does fine in his classes … but he isn’t motivated enough to do the things that it takes to distinguish himself in any way. I also hope that “boys mature later than girls.” Just so long as it’s not TOO late … we do want to keep our basement free of adult children. ;)</p>

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<p>Sounds like typical boys to me. Stop taking things away from them, it won’t help at all. Get them busier so they don’t see that they have 6 hours after school to get things done. They can get a part time job or join another sport or club. They will do better if they are busier.</p>

<p>As for getting straight A’s, does that REALLY matter? Are their grades good enough to get them into 90% of the colleges out there? Do they NEED to go to a “top” school, no. As long as they are B students or better and get reasonable scores on their SAT/ACT they will be JUST FINE. I suggest you back off and let them own the remainder of their high school career. If they don’t turn something in, they pay the consequence at school with a lower grade. Yes, it’s difficult, but if you keep doing what you are doing, they will keep doing what THEY are doing…into college…and that is an expensive time to learn this lesson.</p>

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<p>"As for getting straight A’s, does that REALLY matter? Are their grades good enough to get them into 90% of the colleges out there? Do they NEED to go to a “top” school, no. "</p>

<p>I agree. My parents/teachers complaining that I could be getting A’s was not a motivator. I knew A’s were not the end all be all. If my parents tried to punish me for it, I’d resent them for not giving me the respect that I deserve. I was very aware that they didn’t approve of me (given that my sisters always got straight A’s and I was just as smart as they were) and they did not even try to hide it. It was insulting. </p>

<p>At that age, I knew my plan was to go to community college and knew that doing the busy work at school was pointless (most of it really is just that, busy work). My focus was on work and play, school was last on my list as I was able to get Bs without trying. I ramped it up when it mattered, and got As in college. </p>

<p>Also, I was very sensitive about my parents treating me unfairly/disrespectfully at that age. I viewed myself as capable of making my own decisions (I was) and I think alot of smart & responsible 16-17 year old boys feel the same. This age is the perfect time for parents to start to back off, especially if their children have proven themselves responsible to this point. </p>

<p>Your children are young adults and are capable of making their own decisions. If they are “getting things done”, great, be happy that they are doing that. It doesnt sound like you have anything to worry about. High school grades are not really that important at the end of the day. </p>

<p>If you want to provide an incentive, positive reiforcement is good. Perhaps a certain amount of $$ per A, and then an even larger amount if they get straight A’s. Then they can buy video games.</p>

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<p>Yes, I could not have “beaten or bribed” all As out of my oldest even though he was perfectly capable of getting all As. It was not important to him or where he was going in life. He went to college. He graduated in four years and high school is merely a blip on his life trajectory. After senior year in high school no one really cares how you “did” in high school. That said, I do think kids owe it to themselves and to their poor parents some effort and to take classes they are interested in and that challenge them (and my oldest did that.) For my oldest it was Latin, English and history. Math and science he could have “given a rip about” so I backed off him about that. Even getting through the one math class that was required in college was painful for him. Pick your battles and let your kids pick theirs is another mantra of mine.</p>

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<p>Our favorite high school history teacher offered two grading tracks…She did this in all of the classes she taught, from remedial through AP.</p>

<p>Track One had very few grades, and each component counted heavily. Usually one or two exams, a couple of papers, and the grading period (10 week) “final” exam.</p>

<p>Track Two had a lot of grades…in addition to the exams and papers for Track One, there were grades for homework, posters etc.</p>

<p>The first day of each grading period, the teacher passed out copies of the syllabus, which showed both tracks. The student had to choose a track by signing the relevant line on the syllabus…and the parent had to sign as well.</p>

<p>Students could choose which track to follow every 10 weeks, and they could change tracks for each grading period. But whichever track they chose, they were stuck with for the 10 weeks.</p>

<p>Students each could play to their strengths. And they learned a lot about themselves. </p>

<p>And…they learned how to actually study and learn, because, my boys being boys–they all chose the track without the daily busy work. And each crashed and burned on the first big test because they hadn’t really kept up in the way they needed to. But…the thought of possibly having to switch to the “busy work” track if they didn’t maintain adequate grades motivated them to actually study the way they needed to.</p>

<p>Actually, this approach has served them well in college, too, because they were acquainted with not having a zillion random extra points to bring up sub-par exam grades.</p>

<p>And also–the teacher also noted that this system worked to her advantage as well–she did not have to spend all those additional hours grading/recording as many homework assignments on a daily basis, and she was not wasting time contacting parents about students not turning in busy work etc. </p>

<p>This teacher actually preferred having fewer and more meaningful assignments, but it was her experience that if she did not offer students the chance to pad their grades with lots of extra points she got lots of complaints from students (and parents), and demands for random extra credit" projects.</p>

<p>For example, she fully expected all students to learn the vocabulary/identify the persons and events in each unit–and that students would use the exercises after each unit to check their knowledge. But only students in Track Two turned in written work from the exercises for credit. Students in Track Two who did not turn in anassignment got dinged with a zero …no late work accepted. But of course, there were a zillion small assignments.</p>

<p>Another interesting point–We noticed that a lot of the students with serious after school activities (sports, drama) generally chose Track One. It was wonderful for my sons not to have to worry about doing so many piddly assignments on nights when their team bus did not pull back in to the school parking lot til 10 pm., or when rehearsals for a show did not end until late in the evening.</p>

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<p>Kudos to your son’s history teacher. Why don’t other teachers try this. </p>

<p>Reminds me of a math teacher my son had who at first he really didn’t like but he later felt he learned the most math from her. She did not give the kids endless math problems to practice only the amount needed. She refused to repeat things she had taught if others were talking and they knew it so they shut up and paid attention since they would only hear the info once.</p>

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<p>While getting straight-As in high school or even college isn’t everything, I have encountered countless students…especially suburban middle-class and up boys who were content with Cs and felt if they needed to work harder than minimal effort for a B or an A…they just won’t do it. </p>

<p>This caused the parents of a few older cousins and younger friends to pull their hair out in exasperation. While I was only a slightly better student in HS, I never understood that mindset as even among old neighborhood kids who dropped out, having a C average was something to be ashamed of…not something to be content about. Especially considering that unlike my urban public magnet, it wasn’t really that much more effort to get a B/A at their high schools…or sometimes even their colleges. </p>

<p>Granted, I was raised in a family which had a strong respect for school/education and in conjunction with some hard charging role models in my old NYC working-class neighborhood like some Vietnam Vets who were drill sergeants or junior officers, an attitude which doesn’t tolerate open expressions that mediocrity is fine and dandy among the kids. </p>

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<p>Out of curiosity, has she received much whiny complaints from other parents for “not teaching” at P-T conferences because such parents expect teachers to repeat things endlessly for their daydreaming/doodling/staring at the ceiling/texting? </p>

<p>Just asking as this has not only been a common experience among friends who teach K-12, but even undergrad Profs/TAs at universities. </p>

<p>I was astonished at how even in the '90s such undergrads felt entitled to regularly having Profs repeat information that they didn’t get because they dozed off or weren’t paying attention much to the annoyance of the rest of us more attentive students.</p>

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<p>She was real direct with the kids from the start that she would not repeat things if they were talking. I remember my son at first complaining but it did not seem to take too long until his opinion of her shifted. He even stated that he thought Mrs R should teach other teachers how to teach which really was quite a compliment. I don’t remember if any parents complained. </p>

<p>I think she was a very clear precise teacher and did not meander around or change her mind mid way while working the equations on the board. So the students knew, she knew her stuff.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that when people (students) are made responsible for their learning, they can rise to the challenge.</p>

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<p>It’s funny when I look back to my sons’ experience with their history teacher…even though each student could pick their own track, there were always those who claimed “not fair!” when their choice was not working for them. A student who slacked off on a couple too many assignments would suddenly not want the resulting zeroes to count against them; a student who chose to rely on just the big grades would all of a sudden demand a chance to earn extra credit.</p>

<p>Thank goodness the teacher always stuck to her guns. </p>

<p>Some parents really didn’t like her because she could not be manipulated. Her two track method–and the fact students could switch every 10 weeks–stopped a lot of them in their tracks. She used to say it was her job to teach her students US History, not to give them As…but that if she did her job, and they learned US History, the As would come.</p>

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<p>I am an identical twin. When we were in school my brother was the proto-typical A student, study, turn in papers early etc. Me, not so much.</p>

<p>He , of course was accepted into his 1st choice school. Me, wait-listed and off to a state college.</p>

<p>Along about junior year of college, the light bulb went off in my head. I actually got interested in what was being taught, read the books (ahead of time to prepare for class) studied a little every day. Low and behold graduated with Honors. </p>

<p>Went on to earn another degree from #1 choice college in a field of study I was interested in.</p>

<p>Bottom line is boys do mature later, I’m a shining example.</p>

<p>PS: Both my brother & I have very successful careers in our respective fields of study.</p>

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<p>gerbilmom,</p>

<p>what I forgot to say is that it’s not that boys don’t work hard–it’s that a lot of them don’t see the purpose of working hard on something they perceive as stupid. They don’t worry about being “pleasers” as much as most girls do.</p>

<p>IF your boys are learning the material they need to learn, I wouldn’t worry too much as long as the grades are B-range (and better on the exams).</p>

<p>That’s what I loved about the history teacher–she focused on learning. My boys didn’t need to worry about doing a pretty poster for points, or even a less pretty poster for less than full points–they didn’t need to do a poster at all! (and they knew they had better do well on the tests and papers, otherwise mommy could insist they needed the grade-padding from the busy work). And spending less time on posters meant more time writing the paper comparing how Hiroshima was covered in different countries, both immediately after, and how it is viewed today. My son worked really hard on that paper.</p>