<p>Well, I wouldn't favor very early marriage, either. I mean, I certainly don't think its a good idea when non-college bound kids marry straight out of high school. The whole point is that it's not necessarily a good idea to rush through life. The irony is that people who are afraid of "losing time" are the ones who are, in a sense, throwing the time that they've got away.</p>
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I actually don't have any problem with the idea of early high school graduation -- I just think that kids in that circumstance should seriously consider a gap year. It's the combination of full grade accelleration with a rush to early college that I think leads to the end result of being a rueful 32-year-old, saddled with the burdens of career, a mortgage, and a couple of young children.... wondering why it was so important to skip right past the "fun" part of one's youth.
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<p>Gap years are a terrific idea for many students (not just the ones who are young or graduating high school early), but it's not obvious to me why the gap year needs to come between high school and college.</p>
<p>The timing seems like a highly individual matter. A young person could just as easily decide to take a gap year in the middle of college, or after college and before grad school or serious professional plans.</p>
<p>A 16-year-old taking a "gap year" between high school and college may not have as many interesting options as a 20-year-old taking a "gap year" between college and grad school or college and professional life.</p>
<p>I know someone who went to college at 14, graduated at 18, took a few years off, and then went to grad school. Apparently it worked for him.</p>
<p>I So SO concur with Calmom's analysis of "rushing through life". What's the hurry? One reason I hope my kids DON'T rush into an early marriage is that the time during your 20's, for college, grad school, travel, fun, whatever, and it is time you never, ever get back. True, you can do some of that if your nest empties early, but I really believe there is a benefit to some of the experiences that one does best at a young age.</p>
<p>I agree with the idea of not rushing through life. But rushing through life takes many different forms. </p>
<p>I also agree with Wisteria.
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A 16-year-old taking a "gap year" between high school and college may not have as many interesting options as a 20-year-old taking a "gap year" between college and grad school or college and professional life.
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<p>Maybe lawyers who graduated young feel that they rushed through life, but those who go through grad school do not seem to feel so. In fact, many grad schools are trying to get their students to complete their dissertations in a decent amount of time (i.e., ten years or less).</p>
<p>Allmusic:</p>
<p>I traveled and lived abroad in my 20s because of being married, not in spite of. And being with someone else (i.e. spouse) was a lot more fun than being on my own.</p>
<p>This discussion here is really interesting, and I appreciate the OP opening the thread. I'm about to post a thread on a somewhat more specific issue, seeing how helpful all your comments are, so that I don't hijack this thread.</p>
<p>Mildly off post-</p>
<p>Am reminded of a term our former school supt. used in a discussion of GT programming when describing some of the challenges faced by truly end-of-the-bell-curve students: "severely gifted."</p>
<p>Gap year for 16 yr old? What can a kid do when he's not of legal age? Can't travel, join the military or Peace Corps. Certainly not live at home if he has a choice, going to college is doing the same thing other age-mates are doing, schoolwork. I feel much better knowing son is safely in college. Some kids outgrow the high school scene earlier than others. </p>
<p>I don't like the term precocious, it sounds like someone is too early, not on a whole differently sloped learning path. Don't confuse educational attainment or careers with capacity/rate of learning. Also one can have areas of giftedness with others being average. We speak of gifted athletes; think of the parallel potential academically instead of in sports- not all athletes have the capacity to make pro sports, much less superstar status, no matter how much they work at it. Think of giftedness like you do a physical attribute, something you are born with, whether you like it or not, you're stuck with it. A gift is something you are given, not because you deserve or earn it, but perhaps by virtue of parentage. Too often GT people want to deny their attributes and blend in; our society doesn't value this like it does physical ability--I wonder if people feel threatened. I have also heard an IQ of 120 is ideal, smart enough to handle everything easily but still in tune with the average person. mafool- that supt knew what he was talking about. Think of the bell curve, giftedness is the flip side of retardedness.</p>
<p>Here's what a 16 year old can do with a gap year: A foreign exchange. AFS & YFU and other foreign exchange outfits take kids age 15 on up. Place them with a host family with host siblings. A kid on a full year exchange will come back fluent in whatever language is spoken in the host country. With near-universal internet access and cell phone coverage these days, you can be in daily contact with the kid through emails and text-messaging if that's what you want.</p>
<p>It is very difficult to replicate that experience when the kid is older, as most college study abroad programs don't offer the same degree of full immersion experience. So that is also the type of experience that simply isn't available to adults.</p>
<p>wis75, I still get the feeling that you focus on early college entrance as the only path for gifted kids -- that acceleration is the only option. If I'm wrong, I apologize in advance for my comments.</p>
<p>As I said earlier, the majority of CC parents (and probably everyone posting on this thread!) has kids that are considered gifted. You give the impression that you consider this to be a rarity, which it is in statistical terms. But where we live (a Boston suburb), it's almost the norm. </p>
<p>The problems faced by kids who are brighter than the average bear are probably dependent on geographic location. Where we live, there are many options for private education, college classes or other options. But I have one son at Dartmouth, and I can tell you that there are a ton of "gifted" kids there. The same could be said of MIT, Caltech, Chicago, Harvard and all of the other selective schools. So I disagree with your statement that intellectual attributes aren't valued in our society. </p>
<p>I think that it's easier to deal with a kid who is gifted in math -- there is a discrete path with well-defined courses. With all of the online resources, those needs can be met. The verbally gifted have a little more challenge, I think, in finding courses that meet their needs. </p>
<p>We were fortunate to find a college prep school with a wide range of AP options and the flexibility to choose different levels for each subject area. Our older son took enough AP classes so that he could graduate early from college if he wanted to, at the age of 20. We have encouraged him to plan to stay for all four years, and he will either double major in physics/math or take the physics degree with two minors. He also was an introvert. But, to our amazement, he has become quite social in college. So maybe he'll also minor in fun! :)</p>
<p>My point is that I'm uncomfortable with the "specialness" of high IQ kids. Sure, they're bright, but they are still kids. In another thread, allmusic talked about her son's interest in math and music. Both of my kids also play two instruments and have competed on a regional level. I feel it's important to help kids grow in a variety of ways, not just focus exclusively on their intellect. If I could have made them more athletic, it would be the icing on the cake.</p>
<p>You also mentioned MIT for graduate school. Why not let your son explore the full range of options at Wisconsin? Maybe he'll find other interests he wants to pursue. As I mentioned, I'm not trying to be difficult here -- it's just that I hear a theme of focusing exclusively on the gifted nature of kids, and how unique they are. When they get to college and grad school, they'll find they are not that unusual.</p>
<p>sjmom2329- you live in an ivory tower world. The rest of us do not have the high percentage of gifted kids you do, nor good private prep schools close to home (we can't all live in the most desirable places, there aren't enough jobs in our fields). I have to wonder why so many people feel the need for private education- why don't they insist their tax dollars provide for a good, equivalent education? Public schools here offer AP courses, even the option of college courses as needed. In an area with so many gifted kids it should be easy for the public schools to offer an appropriate education. </p>
<p>My emphasis on advancing the more highly gifted results from hearing too much about the sacredness of same age peer groups when they are not peer groups for highly gifted kids. There is a GT pyramid model, about 2/3rds, the bottom of the pyramid, do just fine with schooling in their classroom, most of the rest need some extras, only a very few, at the top of the pyramid, need extraordinary measures, such as grade acceleration. Gifted is not just bright (an IQ of 120 is bright, I won't nitpick on precise definitions as you can read the percentages in the population in "Guiding The Gifted Child"), being in the top >>> 99th percentile is pretty special in my mind. BTW UConn is known for teaching GT educators beyond the bachelor's level. </p>
<p>"Why not let your son..." LET my son?!, I do not control him nor what he chooses to do. Checking college websites I see more course options at a big public U like UW-Madison than at many elite private schools, including Ivies. The advantage some schools would have had for my son would have been to interact with more Asian Indians instead of the prevalent ethnic groups here.</p>
<p>The reason many are willing to pay for private education is because it can deliver for our kids what we have experienced that public education has not been able to--educators who care & nurture, as well as peers who do not belittle ideas they cannot understand.</p>
<p>Sure, it would be wonderful if public education could provide appropriate support & education opportunities for our gifted kids who have always tested in the top 99% & above. We have tried that route, complete with volunteering in the classroom, running the PTA, and everything we could to enrich the school environment. For us, after many years in the public school system, we came to the painful realization that our kids' needs were not being adequately met (even at the "best" public schools) and are glad we had the resources to remedy it by allowing our kids to transfer to private HS that did better meet their needs.</p>
<p>Actually, you might be surprised at how many gifted kids will congregate where there are exceptional educational resources. At our kids' private HS, it has had 40% of the state's NMSFs (at least for 2005-2007). Since by definitiion, this designation is the top 1/2% of the kids in the state who took the PSAT, that's a measure of giftedness as well.</p>
<p>wis75, I really don't live in an Ivory tower -- cyber communication is not the best media for sharing opinions, and I didn't mean to sound too contentious. I'm just responding to the tone of some posts, and bringing up other ideas.</p>
<p>We've only lived in the Boston area for five years -- prior to that, we spent seven years in a Minneapolis suburb. When S1 first took the SAT as part of the Talent Search for Norwestern in 7th grade, the local high school had several classrooms full of middle school kids taking the test. When my kids participated in gifted programs though the public school, those classes were filled - it could be difficult for them to get the classes they wanted because of demand. So, my experience is that there are a lot of gifted kids everywhere.</p>
<p>I think that there are around 2.5 million HS graduates each year. If you take the top 2% of HS kids applying to college, that's still around 50,000 kids, right? The Ivies get something like 120,000+ applications every year. I just get the feeling that you though it was a rarity to score in the top 1-2%. It is statistically rare, but in absolute numbers, there are a bunch of "gifted" kids running around.</p>
<p>I felt uncomfortable with your focus on being the youngest. What difference does it make, as long as a student's educational needs are met? As Calmom mentioned, eventually the brightest kid is not the youngest anymore.<br>
Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like you felt that Wisiconsin was a consolation prize until he could get to MIT. I'm sorry if I was wrong.
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It would have been so much easier to have had a bright instead of gifted child, but then he wouldn't have fit with his parents. Both father and paternal grandfather were 2 grades ahead (in India, therefore a different set of experiences).
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I don't mean to be difficult here, but I think you'd find that many of the parents on CC would score in the top 1% on IQ tests. On a different thread, someone (Alumother?) said that a high IQ and $5 would buy a cup of coffee.</p>
<p>I think we just have a different outlook. I view the gift of intellectual ability as meeting a threshold for doing interesting things. Being bright is just not enough, in my book. Helping kids develop all the attributes to be the best human being possible is what matters to me. That means facilitating their academic education, but it also means challenging them in the arts, in developing compassion, in understanding the idea that "To whom much is given, much is expected."</p>
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That's the ultimate problem with doing everything in a big hurry when you are young. You end up getting old anyway.
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In the last analysis, if one cannot integrate well in the world, or act with good emotional intelligence, sadly, no superior IQ is going to make up for it.
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<p>Great points to keep in mind when helping kids make course decisions & tackle the acceleration/early grad question.</p>
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...why don't they insist their tax dollars provide for a good, equivalent education?
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<p>I don't mean to be flip, but this statement made me laugh out loud! As if it were that simple......</p>
<p>no kidding-
I have gone straight to the legislature many times to discuss education funding</p>
<p>thank you to the op for starting this thread and to everyone for posting. </p>
<p>our kids have been in both private and public schools. what i've found is that what may work for one child may not work for another. one child may have his/her needs met in a particular school while another child may not regardless of whether the school is public or private. </p>
<p>it's not so much that a school is private or public but rather more important to look at the staff and administration of the particular school. what are their feelings towards "gifted and talented" students? is it their view to provide an education which best educates the "average" student?" do they consider "gifted and talented" students to sometimes have needs that may need special consideration? it's oftentimes the parent who does need to be an advocate for their child and to help find the best options for their child's particular educational needs. </p>
<p>one of my children attended a private parochial school through 8th grade. with another one of my children, it became obvious that his needs were not being met at the same school by the time he was in 3rd grade and so we made the decision to move him to a public school. we've not regretted our decision and we know that it was the right thing to do for him.</p>
<p>I'm focusing on the young college student because that's what I have and want information about. I started this thread to hear how others dealt with similar situations, the deed is done, now what? Any stories or hints about what worked and didn't work? This is a place to talk about this without hijacking another thread. There is a lot of info on GT, so many books I could list, a whole other thread for someone to start. I'm interested in this subject, hearing anecdotes etc., just as I had fun reading college move-in stories. In CC people tend to forget people come from many different backgrounds; it's interesting to see how the "other half" lives, and to sometimes remind people of it.</p>
<p>Though this might be a subscription only site, it is worth reading standing at the news stand if nothing else.</p>
<p>Two of my favorite passages:</p>
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And meanwhile, for adolescents, the result of all this parental academic yearning is grinding pressure, emptiness, and conformity … such that Ivy League hopefuls—or their parents—polish their autobiographical essays (yet more empty Selves) via <a href="http://www.essayedge.com%5B/url%5D">www.essayedge.com</a>, where for $299.95 a “Harvard-educated editor” will punch up, in an edited example, one’s inspiring tale of a father’s battle with colon cancer. (With apparently no one being given pause that part-time work for EssayEdge is what the Harvard-educated are doing.)
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<p>and</p>
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It could just be me—once highly gifted, now fallen from grace, bombed GRE scores in hand, barely able to complete a Sudoku puzzle—but when I read the following passage of Marilee Jones’s USA Today essay, I think of Dustin Hoffman in a bus bumping down a dusty road at the end of The Graduate:</p>
<p>"Last April, a few weeks after sending the acceptance/rejection letters for the Class of 2006, I received a reply from a father of one of our applicants. It was curt and written on his corporate letterhead: 'You rejected my son. He’s devastated. See you in court.' … The very next day, I received another letter, but this time from the man’s son. It read: 'Thank you for not admitting me to MIT. This is the best day of my life.'"</p>
<p>Maybe, with the son’s understanding and encouragement, the father can reapply next year.
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<p>Wis, with all due respect, no one has hijacked your thread. You titled the thread "Gifted and Talented Parents trials and tribulations". You opened with a reference to your "gifted son" and the statement, "I have been involved in local GT affairs and done a lot of research over the years. Now I would like to share tales, get and impart "wisdom" with other parents." </p>
<p>In other words, anyone who can read would see this as a thread to discuss "gifted" education issues. </p>
<p>If you had wanted to discuss younger-than-typical kids going to college, you should have titled it, "16 year old starting college" and started off with, "My 16-year-old son just started college." "Gifted" really has nothing to do with it -- most kids who start college early are highly intelligent, but there probably are many who have never been formally labeled as "gifted" and simply are arriving early via a different path, such as homeschoolers or students who simply are not served well by their high schools. </p>
<p>It isn't particularly odd for a kid to start college at 16. When I arrived at law school at age 20, I wasn't the youngest. I was the youngest kid in my dorm at college -- I think -- but I went to a huge university so it would have been very hard for me to know or to find others my age. However -- and this is what is very, very important -- when I was not the smartest kid in my dorm, or my college, or my law school. Not hardly.</p>
<p>I had always been one of the 2 smartest kids in my elementary school class - we were also the 2 youngest & shortest - the other kid was a week older than me. In high school I was among the smartest -- though the cohort of really smart kids had grown. In college it was different because I simply didn't stand out any more.</p>
<p>Maybe that was a very good thing, because at least I learned that being "gifted" wasn't worth a damn in this world. I didn't find it particularly intellectually stimulating, because my experience as a 16 year old freshman living in a freshman dorm was, quite honestly, that everyone was either too drunk or too stoned almost every night for much in the way of coherent conversation. College was basically 2 years of partying and getting high until I kind of came out of my marijuana-induced haze toward the end of sophomore year and decided to work on raising my GPA. I guess what all those years of being "gifted" had taught me was that I could slack off most of the time and still easily pass all my courses -- my roommates and friends were somewhat impressed with my ability to start typing a 20-page research paper the day before it was due, and do it all in one draft. (That ability, by the way, really served me well as a lawyer). </p>
<p>If you want to talk about 16 year olds at college, then say so. But believe me, it has nothing whatsoever to do with being gifted. Some colleges have honors programs, but other than that there isn't anything close to a "gifted" label at college, and IF the kid has any particular educational needs that are different than his 18 year old classmates... well that would be an indication that he really didn't belong at college, or at least not at that college. In other words, you don't send a 16 year old to college unless you can do so with full confidence that the 16 year old will fit in and blend in without a problem. And then, really, the age issue tends to come down to legal barriers, like when I decided to buy a used car my sophomore year and had to prove I had insurance to get my licence, but I was 17 years old living in a different state from my parents, so I had to find a local insurance company that would sell a policy to a kid my age. Or when I wanted to sign the lease for my off-campus apartment at age 17.</p>