Gifted and Talented Parents trials and tribulations

Parents Forum
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<p>I guess like calmom I too grew up with sort of a "gifted" hangover. I was young for my class, and always the smartest, for what it's worth. Years later, entering my second half centry, I still admit that I like my brain except when it forgets too much but you know what? At the end of the day "giftedness" is just one small part of what makes you who you are. And "giftedness", well, these days I appreciate loyalty, responsibility, kindness, humor, and a someone who can give a good backrub as much as I appreciate intelligence. Which isn't to say that parents of these kinds of kids shouldn't focus on them, but let the kids lead. I know some parents here have done just that and I think you can tell the kids benefit. For some, that approach leads to number theory at 16. For some, that approach leads to letting your kid go to a Cal State because that's truly where they can develop as they need to to live a good life.</p>

<p>Hell, I'm as guilty of decal fever as anyone. Not throwing stones. Just dancing around making sure the voices of old hippies don't fade away forever.</p>

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<p>Ditto Calmom and Alumother.</p>

<p>DH and I were both labeled "gifted" as children, were well educated and have had decades of successful careers. Both of our children are "gifted" (although neither has been tested...but I'm in the biz so can guess). </p>

<p>But all of us are more than that label, and I should hope so. Giftedness is nothing without humility, compassion for others, a good listening ear, a sense of humor, and the capacity for happiness. As I said early on this thread, I always keep the story of my friend's son front and center when I think about giftedness. I am certain there are many more people with much lower IQs who were more content and happier in their lives than this young man. </p>

<p>So, high IQ, early college entry, early proclivity or precociousness isn't an indicator of lifelong success...or even lifelong happiness.</p>

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<p>Calmom and Alumother raise good issues. </p>

<p>By college, whether or not one is gifted or labeled as such or not ceases to matter. It matters in k-12 because of expectations that students should be with their age peers and that there should be curricula appropriate for each grade (and thus each age cohort). By college, this issue disappears as freshmen can take courses with seniors or even graduate students if they are at universities. They can take courses that are more advanced and move at a faster pace than what many other students do. They could not have done so in high school.</p>

<p>However, being younger than the majority of students may pose problems (or not). As I may have posted elsewhere, the parents of some gifted children refused to let them attend college early although they could have because one of the parents had worked closely with students (and still does) and had seen a lot of troubled kids. Many of these kids were younger students. When their D graduated early from high school owing to unforeseen circumstances (and after taking many many APs and college classes), they made her take a gap year/ I know of another young woman whose parents also made her take a gap year so she could start college at 17 instead of 16 but they have relented in the case of their son who has just started college at not quite 16.</p>

<p>There is no hard and fast rule as to what age a student should reach before going to college. It can be uncomfortable being the youngest in social situations; in some cases, it's the others who will be made a bit uncomfortable. But many do not seem to encounter problems fitting in.</p>

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<p>'I have to wonder why so many people feel the need for private education- why don't they insist their tax dollars provide for a good, equivalent education?"</p>

<p>My sides are hurting from laughing so much, as the tears roll down my face. Yeah, I should have thought of that instead of paying over $150,000 for my son's education. Okay, sarcasm aside, I spent three years as a parent rep on the GATE committee, worked full time in my son's class, was on the PTA, presented information on gifted education, went to seminars, read everything I could get my hands on -- all to try and convince our affluent elementary school to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING for gifted kids. What I got was a brief "all kids are gifted" speech, an offer to let my son read all day in his class if the class was "boring", and a sixth grade math book for him to work on in fourth grade if he wanted. While there are great stories out there about educators who understand the special needs of gifted kids and run programs to support their educational needs -- trust me, that's not the norm. With every state having limited resources, it's nearly impossible to convince the legislatures that money should go to kids who are "too smart." So the parents of gifted kids have to do whatever they can to try and give their kids the most appropriate education. And I do understand that for some kids that may mean radical grade acceleration -- I'm not against it in all cases, I just bring up my own experience to offer a balance to the discussion and to raise the option of other ways to deal with the really bright who are really young (such as the gap year, getting a second degree, work experience, something to add to the experience of their youth -- before it's over).</p>

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<p>"'I have to wonder why so many people feel the need for private education- why don't they insist their tax dollars provide for a good, equivalent education?""</p>

<p>I couldn't afford the $150,000, but if only it were so easy. I did all of what BurnThis did. Frankly it comes down to property taxes. People aren't willing to pay for a private school quality education for their kids. We didn't get the "all children are gifted", but I had to fight for every accomodation. A first grader who tests at fifth grade level for math concepts? Why can't the teacher create an advanced math group instead of sending said-child to another classroom? A group of kids who already worked through a particular vocab book the previous year? Sorry that's the book I was told to use this year.</p>

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<p>My S' "accommodation" in 2nd grade was being able to compete in chess against college students who were helping the new teacher. He read chess books the teacher couldn't understand & performed a magic show as well. Both kids were reading at college level before they left grade school & were pretty good at "self amusing," but ran into trouble when they inadvertently asked the teacher questions that the teacher couldn't answer because s/he never considered the issues my kids were raising. Instead of admitting or suggesting research or projects, my kids were considered by the teachers trouble-makers & became invisible & worse. This is why we made a great competitive private school an option for both children. Both kids have never been happier.</p>

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<p>another problem is that the govt grinds slowly.
When we moved to Seattle, about 3 blocks from an elementary school, we assumed it would be where our then 2 year old daughter would attend.
We did not suspect that a year later she would be reading and two years after that when touring the kindergarten, the teacher would suggest that we find a more appropriate school.
We were both very young, had little money and the idea that the neighborhood schools probably weren't an option was shocking.
We did find a private co-op 5s prgram, where she was enrolled, to give us more time to find a suitable elementary program.
We toured other area public and eventually private schools.
We did see some programs in the public schools that we thought were good, but the class size, the scarcity of ability to individualize, and instability we saw in staffing at the school and the district, weighted our choice toward smaller private schools, where there seemed to be more continuity in teaching and in the student body. ( not to mention, the programs in the public school were a lottery, difficult to get admitted to, and although they were in high demand, teh district never has tried to replicate them)</p>

<p>I began to be involved in both the private school, as well as the local public school, but when there are 5 years for your child to get through elementary, how long does it take for the district to decide on and implement changes?</p>

<p>How long does it take the state to increase funding for schools?
Even if you were a young, uneducated struggling famlily like we were, you do what you can to get your child an appropriate education NOW.
She couldn't wait 5 or 10 or 15 years.</p>

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<p>We had just the opposite, well not quite opposite, experience when we moved to the NW. Our S had been in a wonderful public GT program in the midwest. After some testing, he transferred to the local Advanced Progress Program (a public GT program). While not as good as the program in the midwest, and it had to be supplemented with some summer school–related experiences, he stayed with it through middle school and then attended a public HS with honors and AP opportunities. The HS did a good job preparing him for college and it places many kids in top universities. Our youngest, who is now in HS, is following much the same path (minus the transferring part), only this time the first year of HS has been very much improved over older S's first year. Did we have to stay involved and fight some battles along the way? Absolutely. But, the GT public education received and being received was/is quite good, as good or better than friends attending expensive privates, and middle school APP and HS programs took/take place in a very diverse environment, which is something we value.</p>

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<p>My "gifted" son was seriously underchallenged in grades 1 and 2 and (understandably) didn't have the maturity to handle it well. He would cover his ears when the teacher would repeat something for the 10th time or give detailed directions for an activity, thereby robbing it of any possible challenge. His gifts are in the verbal area, but he was delayed in motor skills, including writing (asynchronous development) and would be trerribly frustrated when his hand couldn't begin to keep up with his brain. His teacher (a Harvard grad, I found out later) had no idea what to make of him or do with him. He would publicly contradict her when she made statements that were factually incorrect. Fellow students called him "The Brain" and made it clear they had no idea what he was talking about. It didn't take long before he stopped talking in class. Subsequent teachers have been much better and I also learned a lot about giftedness which made me a better advocate. But it's not until his high school years that he started to open up again in the classroom.</p>

<p>Keeping him in public schools (we have few options here) wasn't ideal, but it's worked fairly well with lots of advocacy and home-based enrichment on my part and an increasing flexibility and maturity on my son's part. He is moderately gifted, though, not severely so.</p>

<p>I went to college early because high school was unpleasant and basically useless for me. I was instantly surrounded by an intellectually curious peer group and able teachers for the first time in my life. It was HEAVEN!! One of the best decisions I've ever made, and fortunately me parents trusted me to make it. Every kid, every family and every situation is different, of course.</p>

<p>If my son had wanted to go to college early, I'd have been fine with it. Fortunately, his HS has had enough great extracurriculars to keep him interested and AP courses have helped a lot.</p>

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<p>We also ditched the public school system for one of our children, who had two years in a row of "sitting and reading" when she finished her work. That was a favorite, along with the "reading aloud" with readers so disparate in ability it was truly laughable. That, or you wanted to weep, which was my D's response. It was so insipid and boring it made her cry. We got the "we do differentiated instruction" speech, but if that was differentiated instruction, it was pathetic.</p>

<p>I have found that things improve as kids get older, and there are challenges aplenty in public high school. I don't know whether we will bring her back or not...time will tell, but in case anyone thinks the public schools are sitting up straight and responding to the needs of the gifted, as well as they respond to the needs of kids who are mentally deficient or have learning disables...it's a big pile of nonsense. We don't have one dollar, not one, spent on gifted education, and a third of our school budget is for special needs.</p>

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<p>There are areas of the country where GT student needs are addressed (or at least there is a real attempt to do so) in public school. Even in the very troubled Chicago system there is a robust GT program where kids can test into regional gifted centers, classical schools, language academies, and other options. They have also recently built two new public HS (joining an excellent magnet they had) that kids must test into, and that have very advanced academic programs. It can be done in the public sector and there are models to draw upon.</p>

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<p>Both my kids went to a school that completely circumvented the "gifted" thing. It's one of the longest-lived progressive schools in the country. So, when they finished their work, they could go play. Or help the other kids with what they were doing. My D used the system to hone her social skills:). My S used it to become an expert in anagrams as he hung out with the ordained Buddhist monk who was the librarian. It was the right thing for my D, now about to major in neuroscience at Princeton and having the time of her life. For my S, as many here know, I have debated whether I should have taken him out and sent him up the advanced math tree.</p>

<p>I asked him the other day if that's what I should have done. He said, "Mom, I would have hated that." </p>

<p>In case anyone wonders, the years of very little in-class time and lots of time making pottery and doing plays and going on camping trips did not hinder high school academic progress one whit. They both tested into the honors track at their private high school and have proceeded to go through school with adequate :) records. </p>

<p>Sometimes the school problem could be solved if the kids just didn't have to be in the classroom at all.</p>

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<p>Not in MA, Idad. We have ZERO legislation for gifted children. Not a penny allocated for gifted and talented programming.</p>

<p>Swell.</p>

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<p>I put my kids in a public alternative school that sounds something like the school Alumother chose. My son had started in a private Montessori at age 2, but the school shut down and we moved when he was 5 to the district that included the alternative setting that we chose -- it was a parent co-op K-8 with an emphasis on hands-on-activities, frequent field trips, mixed-grade projects & activitities. Many of the classes were mixed grades (a thing of the past, however, as the school proved so popular that it expanded in size, eliminating the opportunity/need for mixed age classrooms); the students did not receive grades for their work; and they called teachers and parent volunteers by their first names. With my son it seemed like a somewhat logical extension of Montessori. </p>

<p>With my daughter, I at first felt that a more structured, academic setting would be a better fit for her personality (she's likes her world to be orderly) and I was painfully aware of her precociousness, given that she was an early reader. However, after reading the sectitions on gifted education David Elkind's book Miseducation: Preschoolers at Risk, I was convinced that it was also the best place for her. In an nutshell, Elkind said that pre-schoolers do best in unstructured settings where free exploration is accommodated and encouraged, and that gifted elementary kids benefit from a continuation of that approach. </p>

<p>I also went to visit a local private school for gifted youngsters when my d. was in 1st, basically looking for ideas as to how I might enrich my d's experience. I did not really like what I saw, because the gifted school seemed more rigid and limiting: example, field trips were rare and they actively discouraged parental volunteering; since their kids were all "gifted" they did not allow grade skipping or accelleration, and I saw 2nd graders reading books that were far below my d's current reading level; and when I asked about the science program, they said that the primary grades were too young for science, so science started around 5th grade. At my kid's public school, science was a BIG part of the hands-on, in class activity -- my d had been candling eggs and had diagrams she made of developing chick embryos in kindergarten that were better drawn than the ones I did in 9th grade -- and she also participated in an afternoon science club run by my son's 6th grade teacher, open to kids of all ages.</p>

<p>So I think that, like Alumother, my kids' school kind of side-stepped the gifted issue. There were a limited amount of pull-out activities for kids who where identified as GATE, but often the kids did not want to participate because they didn't want to miss what was happening in their regular class at the time. It wasn't perfect -- my kids didn't feel like they "learned" much - but they weren't bored, and I could see that while the structured part of the curriculum probably seemed ridiculously easy to them, they were learning a tremendous amount through the experiential aspects. I mean, it was obvious to me that when the class took a trip to the symphony or an art museum, the kids each took it in at their own level. (My kids tended to be the ones who would ask the questions that would stump the museum docents).</p>

<p>Obviously, I was fortunate to have that available. I'm glad for my own kids that I went the route of progressive, constructivist learning, rather than linear accelleration... there is a lot to be learned about roses when you stop along the way to smell them.</p>