Gladchemms

Prep School Admissions Prep School Cafe
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<p>Retter, I agree that Groton is an amazing school, but please note that the Boston Magazine chart is a ranking of VALUE, not quality of education. While the two are surely linked, they are not the same thing. A school with lower scores and weaker college matriculations could beat our a school which is stronger on these measures if it is more affordable.</p>

<p>“Recck calculated mean scores for each data category and then ranked schools based on their distance from the averages. With this traditional performance ranking in hand, he also evaluated performance against tuition, producing a ranking that shows which high schools deliver the most academic bang for the buck.”</p>

<p>The chart is also flawed in other ways. For instance, Roxbury Latin has one of the lowest rates of admission, highest yield and scores, and best college matriculations in the country, yet ranks below much weaker schools on this chart.</p>

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<p>Sue, I appreciate your thoughts. I, too, am surprised by RL’s low ranking. It graduates without a doubt some of the smartest kids in the country. It is important, though, not to confuse the value ranking with the overall ranking. The value ranking was calculated after the overall ranking. This manifests in two ways: there’s a separate column for value ranking, and Groton, which is 32 out of 57 for value, and Middlesex, which is 36 out of 57 for value, rank 2 and 3 respectively. The value doesn’t have anything to do with the overall ranking (except for financial aid), as you can see. Additionally, that quotation is taking from the “How We Determined Value” portion at the bottom. So, that’s value ranking, not overall ranking.</p>

<p>Leanid, yes, it is a bold statement! :smiley:
I could quantify it with SAT scores and college matriculation, which I think are the two tell-tale signs of a school’s quality. At the end of the day, it’s the students who make the school, and although a school’s quality is certainly predicated by its facilities, curriculum, and faculty, the students are the backbone of a school’s reputation. Of course, that raises the question of how I got into Groton, but let’s not go there… :D</p>

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<p>Retter,</p>

<p>While you may make such claims, you do undertsand, don’t you, that the overwhelming consensus of school faculties, school administrations, secondary education groups, students, parents and friends is that Milton, Choate, Hotchkiss, Deerfield, Lawrenceville and Middlesex are indeed of the very first rank. The opinion of one student from Groton is unlikely to change that fact.</p>

<p>Oh, I noticed your English is very good, but I should tell you (for your edification) that “quality” (or anything else) may be “predicated” ON something but it is not “predicated by…” – word to the wise, or in your case, the SAGE. ;)</p>

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<p>Leanid,</p>

<p>Thank you for the English lesson. On the contrary, “predicated by” is perfectly acceptable in this case, since predicate can mean “to affirm or establish.” Now, you can use predicate as a transitive verb, and in that case it would be fine to use “on.” Videlicet, “I predicated my argument on such facts.” But as an intransitive, passive form, you would be mistaken. Thank you, though–I recognize the positive intent :)</p>

<p>This is interesting: I’m not aware of “the overwhelming consensus” to which you refer. In fact, could you please be vaguer? Who do you mean specifically? It’s a little alarming to me to learn that just because a lot of people believe one thing, while a smaller group of people believe another, makes the first thing a “fact.” Isn’t this the kind of problem we got ourselves into with slavery? Or with racism? Indeed, your logic is on a dangerous road. Let’s move away from this path of bias and opinion and examine the facts, which you so conveniently neglected in your response. Groton’s mean SAT scores are 700 across the board, RMW. Milton’s are 681, 688, and 696 respectively. Deerfield’s are 660, 660, and 670, respectively. Considering the fact these are test scores from a preselected group of kids, that’s pretty substantial, don’t you think? Boston Magazine certainly did. SAT scores constituted nearly a third of their rank. There are some real facts for your “overwhelming consensus of friends.”</p>

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<p>Retter,</p>

<p>I stand corrected on English usage, thank you for that. I am impressed.</p>

<p>So those SAT scores for Groton, which are as much as 40 points higher than Deerfield’s prove that DA and the other schools are “second tier” and that “…they can’t really compete with SAGE.”? I don’t believe 40 points is really enough to put schools into separate tiers. It is usually more like 80-100 points that makes the difference, with other factors thrown in.</p>

<p>“It’s a little alarming to me to learn that just because a lot of people believe one thing, while a smaller group of people believe another, makes the first thing a “fact.” Isn’t this the kind of problem we got ourselves into with slavery?”</p>

<p>I guess it depends on how a ‘belief’ is arrived at. I said “overwhelming consensus” because, quite frankly, in reading CC alone (not to mention friends and family who have attended many of the top schools) there is what amounts to an implicit (and explicit) agreement that those schools which you deem second tier are without doubt first tier.</p>

<p>If what you say is true, and there are others out there who believe as you do, I"d love to see them back you up here on this forum.</p>

<p>Furthermore, if you think that having negligibly higher academic results puts one school over another then you are missing the more important total experience that boarding schools offer – and that total experience is what establishes tiers, my friend, not just the academics. </p>

<p>Take Eton College, for example. It is clearly considered a very top school, with prestige that is unmatched. Another ancient British school, Winchester College, is academically superior to Eton (to what extent, I don’t know). Now, tell me, when you think of the top public school in England, which one comes to mind first?</p>

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<p>1) exeter
2) andover
3) sps
4) deerfield
5) lawrenceville
6) groton
7) middlesex
8) hotchkiss
9) milton
10) choate</p>

<p>I am also biased since I am a senior at Middlesex. I recognize that the larger schools have more resources, more aid, more class choices, etc., but I chose Middlesex because I was willing to give up the few extra benefits that going to Andover/Exeter would have given me so that I could be a part of the MX community. In fact, I think that being a bright student in a smaller school of bright students has helped me academically and in the college process. Would I have gotten in early to college if I was competing against 300 other kids in my grade as opposed to just the 86 in my class? I won’t ever know the answer to this question, and rambling about the advantages and disadvantages of school size is a bit of a tangent, but it is certainly related to ranking. Middlesex and Groton are outstanding small schools as we have to be to hold our own against institutions with facilities for over 1000 kids.</p>

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<p>Which college have you been gotten in? (if you don’t mind to answer this question, of course)</p>

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<p>Retter:</p>

<p>Reading your posts, I am SO glad that my kid did not choose Groton! Are you a typical student? Are other kids as easily beguiled by the SSAT, SAT and College Matriculation stats as you are?</p>

<p>Yuk. You do your school and yourself no favors by preening this way on line.</p>

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<p>Parlabane:</p>

<p>I agree with Parlabane. How is it that Middlesex, Hotchkiss, Deerfield, and Choate considered: ‘2nd tier’?</p>

<p>These schools are all unique. It is very hard to compare a school like Groton to Hotchkiss or Deerfield. </p>

<p>And of course, SSAT scores, SAT scores, AP Scores, and college matriculation really aren’t the only factors considered when ranking the schools.</p>

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<p>“Milton, Choate, Hotchkiss, Deerfield, and Middlesex are schools I would call 2nd tier.”
Wow! That’s a little bit drastic!
Those are all great schools, and I certainly think that you are VERY biased by only choosing the most discussed schools on here: Exeter, Andover, SPS, and YOUR OWN SCHOOL to be in the “top tier.” I think GLADCHEMMS covers the first tier just fine.
I’m not trying to be harsh, but just choosing your own school randomly to be in the top-tier does not make sense. If you saw some of the ratings others put, you would see exactly how “top-tier” it is.</p>

<p>Sorry if I came off as condescending, I just didn’t know how to say it right… I think I came across as mean… :eek:</p>

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<p>How many acronyms are there?
I personally like Hades, but I’ll admit that gladchemms is less elitist.</p>

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<p>I think your post is the least elitist of them all.</p>

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<p>@Retter: As an Exonian, your words about Andover made me smile (go Big Red!), but (unfortunately), objectively speaking, I’d have to put Andover in 2nd (despite their “depressing facilities;” ha!).</p>

<ol>
<li>Exeter</li>
<li>Andover </li>
<li>SPS</li>
<li>Groton</li>
<li>Choate </li>
<li>Deerfield</li>
<li>Lawrenceville</li>
<li>Hotchkiss</li>
<li>Middlesex</li>
<li>Milton</li>
</ol>

<p>Here, I’ll do the combined ranking, doing 10 for #1, 9 for #2, etc. until 1 for #10. </p>

<p>ANDOVER
Exeter
Deerfield
SPS
Hotchkiss
Lawrenceville
Groton
Choate
Middlesex
Milton</p>

<p>Breakdown as follows:</p>

<p>Andover
9 9 8 6 4 10 10 9 4 9 10 10 9 = 107
Exeter
8 10 10 5 5 9 8 6 8 10 8 9 10 = 106</p>

<p>Gah!!! Meh, good game, Andover… I should have agreed with Retter about 4th, then we would have won… :P</p>

<p>Deerfield
5 8 9 2 10 5 5 10 9 7 9 2 7 = 88
SPS
6 7 3 9 6 7 9 5 10 6 5 3 8 = 84
Hotchkiss
2 6 5 8 9 4 6 8 5 4 7 5 3 = 72
Lawrenceville
3 3 6 10 7 6 7 7 1 1 6 8 6 = 71</p>

<p>HADES, or rather, AE DSHL </p>

<p>Choate
10 5 7 4 8 3 2 2 7 2 3 6 1 = 60
Groton
7 2 4 7 3 8 4 4 3 3 2 7 5 = 59
Middlesex
4 4 2 3 2 2 3 3 6 5 1 1 4 = 40
Milton
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 8 4 4 2 = 28</p>

<p>About “top tier,” as you can see in the rankings, HADES is a bit more accurate, but all 10 of these schools are absolutely amazing. 1st/2nd tier is useless nitpicking (says the guy who added up all the scores! :wink: ).</p>

<p>Hope this helps!</p>

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<p>Poor Milton…</p>

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<p>Imo these rankings, made based solely on students’ opinions without statistics to back up, are only meant to be for our entertainment. I’d throw Thacher in, as it’s just as equally selective and it has just as great matriculation stats.</p>

<p>And the reason why HADES show up on the top is because that acronym in itself is catchy. Hades. Omg hardcore! Hence, it makes the schools themselves more popular than their peers. And this read is all about personal preference/popularity since frankly, you can’t have known all the 10 schools well enough to rank them, even objectively, in the first place.</p>

<p>Milton suffers from quite a dive because it’s K-12, I guess. Poor guy :frowning: but I dislike him too.</p>

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<p>Yep, can’t have wild Kindergardeners all over the place… ;)</p>

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<p>Yeah EOTS, it is kind of a popularity contest really. Like prom queen and king. :p</p>

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<p>From visiting almost all of these schools as a professional and then visiting them as a prospective parent, and finally spending time at one of the top listed here as a dad, I would have to say I would advise you to forget rankings as far as which is top or not. All these places are great. </p>

<p>As a parent I really liked one of the schools as I knew the headmaster well and he personally reached out to recruit my daughter. I was sure it was right. But she ended elsewhere and it was perfect for her. All these schools have spectacular opportunities for learning and growth.</p>

<p>Please, if I could give any advice, don’t worry about the ‘correct’ ranking. Worry instead about the right 'fit" not for you as a parent, but for your child.</p>

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<p>@parkemuth: For me it’s just a game, really a popularity contest. I wonder how many people would actually make their decisions based on the results of this thread…</p>

<p>@EoTS: Yes, as I just said, I agree about them being solely for our entertainment. I think Thacher’s (or Cate, for that matter) are out because they’re not in New England. </p>

<p>I disagree about what you said about HADES. As I began my school search, the impression that I got, including the advice from our professional school counselors, made me feel that GC-ADES were around the top, which is quite similar to the “HADES” acronym.</p>

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<p>Yeah, but but but you won’t be able to say “I went to hades for high school!” if the acronym changes to GCADES! It won’t sound as cool, and you’ll probably twist your tongue trying to say gcades. </p>

<p>And why leave out schools outside New England? By your logic, Lawrenceville shouldn’t be on the list? :(</p>

<p>If you look solely at matriculation stats, Exopaul’s are generally the schools that appear consistently on the top three. But I won’t get to the stats and rankings because it depends on each individual. If you perform well at Exeter (top 10%) and get into Yale, I can’t see why you shouldn’t get into the very same college had you decided to attend Hotchkiss instead (and still be in the top 10%).</p>

<p>Also unless you prove to me that the quality of education at these top school varies, with SCAGED or whatever being actually better than the others, I’m still convinced that they all provide equally excellent education, just in different environments.</p>