Go deeper in debt or be a dream crusher!?

<p>Since from what others have posted it seems that Tisch is a remarkable opportunity for someone whose dream is to be in MT, I would revise my previous advice about looking for a different, cheaper school.</p>

<p>If you are not able to get more financial aid for next year, my advice is to encourage your daughter to defer her admission to Tisch for 1 year while she does everything possible to raise the money to help offset the extra costs of going there. That could mean working 60 hours a week, taking loans, applying for outside merit aid, etc.</p>

<p>IMO it not only is important for her to have to do at least some of the work to financially pay for her dream (This will help her see if she has all of the grit necessary to be in such a demanding field), but it will be important to you since you have a h.s. student who eventually will need to be college educated. It wouldn't be fair to stretch yourself so much now that you couldn't help that kid achieve his/her dreams. Also do realize that things could happen -- parental unemployment, illness -- that could make it very difficult for that child to go to college if you take out staggering loans now to help your Tisch admitted student.</p>

<p>"Mini, the reason to go to Tisch is to get a BFA, not to "go to NYC."</p>

<p>I understand that fully. But what I'm suggesting the OP explore is whether the "dream" is to go to Tisch or for a career in musical theater. They don't HAVE to be the same, and they don't necessarily require the same path. Tisch is not like Caltech - you cannot become an engineer without an engineering degree, and (for the sake of argument) Caltech is the best of its kind. But you can make a career in MT without a BFA, and I'll bet that the majority do. It's not easy either way - and is likely slightly easier with the degree (I wouldn't know), and definitely harder with $800 a month in loans on your head, and trying to make ends meeting in NYC on top of it.</p>

<p>My suggestion of City College etc. is that it covers the need for a degree (which you put forth) while at the same time freeing up time to advance the MT career. I was just trying to point out that, unlike engineering, there are many different roads, and every window could be a door.</p>

<p>^I thought about Northstarmom's advice also. I think this advice offers the best option for all concerned. Your D would have her dream, there would be less debt and anxiety for you, and you would be in better financial shape for your younger child.</p>

<p>I would also want to know why my child would sneak and apply and audition without my knowledge. That is a different topic, but I would face it head on with my D. I would hope that my children would come to me with their hopes, dreams, and their concerns.</p>

<p>Perhaps I see things too matter-of-factly, but I don't see a big problem here.</p>

<p>My son narrowed his choices down to 3 or so, and all were schools Mom and I liked, but quite a difference in price. He asked us, "Can I go to school A?" We said "Of course", and told him how much we could pay to help him. We can afford nearly 100% of the least expensive school. Our same dollar figure gift applied at schools B and C. He soon got a clear understanding that he could make the choice of schools, transfer, quit, whatever he wanted to do, but if there was a shortfall of cash, he made up the difference. He could make any choice he wanted, but he could NOT make our choice- expect us to pay any bill any where any time.<br>
We did this for a couple of reasons. 1) So that the family wasn't strapped for years because of the gift of his higher education, and 2) to teach him a life lessons about making adult choices and earning the things he wants. He chose the mid-price school and will have a small debt himself after school.</p>

<p>If D wants to sneak around seeking a transfer- let her, it's her dream. If she wants to switch to much more expensive school- let her, it's her dream. If she can come up with the cash difference to make it happen- let her, it's her dream!</p>

<p>younghoss:
The only problem with your theory (and, by the way, that is exactly the approach we take with our kids -- giving them a dollar amount we can pay) is that a kid can not take out loans that are that enormous. That means that the loan ends up in the parents' name. So, guess who is ultimately responsible for paying it back?</p>

<p>In this case, not likely "ultimately", but "immediately".</p>

<p>Waitering in NYC can be quite lucrative--maybe the kid can help out after college ;-)</p>

<p>Mini, here is my post #35, point is that I am seeing it happen in to someone else right now:</p>

<p>"Slightly off topic, but we also know a student who is being asked to fund 4 years of college herself. Her parents took out parent loans for year one, but they expect their D to pay back every dime. This is not for Tisch, but for Podunk U. In the end, she will be asked to pay over 90,000 back to her parents (if she makes it out in 4 years)."</p>

<p>I believe the parents are dreaming about getting their D to pay back 100% of this. They actually expect it.</p>

<p>Sometimes I think parents should be enrolled in remedial math before sending their kids off to college. $90k at 8.5% (the very best case scenario, and quite unlikely), comes out to $1,156 a month for 10 years. At a rate of paying back 15% of one's salary, the student would need an average salary over the first 10 years out of school of more than $89,000.</p>

<p>The parents will be extremely lucky if they can get back half of it.</p>

<p>Back to the BFA - I have a friend who is now in his 50s. He has a BFA and an MFA, and is a working actor in the Boston area - and has always worked, and teaches in a highly touted BFA program, and coaches lawyers in addressing the court. He has had a very happy life, coupled with a wife who works. His income this year, for the very first time in 30 years, will pass $60k.</p>

<p>NEmom: As we expect DS to extinquish the PLUS/Stafford loans that we acquired for his schooling. but then his UGTMA accounts (now his personal accounts) Return on Investments easily exceeds the cost of interest on the loans.</p>

<p>She deserves it.. she worked so hard and her diligence paid off. I think a parent who would be mad at his/her son/daughter applying to a particular school without telling is on a power trip. So what? The child just applied, geez. She probably wanted to see if she could get in or not. And behold, she was able to! Parents are supposed to support their children. I think it is so depressing when parents are not willing to pay money for their children to follow a great opportunity. In fact, I despise parents like that. And yes I am a student.</p>

<p>itstoomuch,
Your S has a different situation.</p>

<p>Mini, I agree with you, and I feel sorry for the young lady who is going to have a noose around her neck, and I feel sorry for the lucky guy who may marry into this debt.</p>

<p>Chocolateisgood, I respectfully disagree with you. I think it is a sneaky thing to do. I also think that one needs to stop and think about their family's needs, and the impact that living a dream will have on the members of their family. This will impact more than just the student. Many people have dreams, and wants, but they may not be able to afford them. There is a solution. She could take a gap year, and work, and then save that money to pay some of the bill.</p>

<p>At one time, this family allowed their D to apply to NYU/Tisch as a freshman. I doubt they thought it would be free. Right now, her college education is going to cost $80,000 total. That is way less than many people here are paying for four years. The decision is whether she will go to college, and if so, for what sort of degree. If she is opting for a degree in her field of interest (which means a BFA), then the decision ought to be which BFA program costs the least. She only applied to one, however, so doesn't have two or more offers on the table. She could opt to do a BA, though doesn't seem to thriving or happy as it is not the field she wishes to study or where her talents lie. While I agree with Mini that there are many paths to going into this field, as I said in my very first post on this thread, the decision needs to be which path she wishes to take. IF it is to be a BFA, then discussion needs to be how much the family can or is willing to finance, how much she is wiling to take on her own, or if she should take a GAP year to finance it, or apply to more than one school to compare packages, etc. I think this family is willing to pay SOMETHING toward college because at one time the student applied to this very same college which was NEVER going to be free. In fact, this is going to be WAY cheaper paying for two years, after the grants she was offered, than had she gone for four. So, in a way, this works out much better than originally set out. It is apparent that this is the field of study this girl has wanted from the start. I don't know why she applied without discussion with her family but maybe she is unhappy at her current path and didn't want to reveal that she still wants what she had wanted two years ago because her passion and talents lie in this field. It is too bad she didn't apply to several options and just applied to one. But now she must decide....BA? BFA? Stay where currently at? No college and just train? But if BFA is the route chosen, then this is the opportunity now upon her. Now the problem solving of how to pay for it. Every parent has a different philosophy with that. For me and for my husband, we feel that is the parents' responsibility because we want to give that as a gift to our kids. It just is our culture and how what was done for us at that age. Many want their kids to help fund the education. Some want their kids to pay for all of it. That's just as justifiable, though different viewpoints. </p>

<p>I still think someone should major in what they are intrested in and so I don't think the choice of major or school should be dependent on which income one may be able to learn. I went to grad school at Harvard and entered a very low paying field. It doesn't negate my education. </p>

<p>By the way, not all actors work as waiters (though nothing wrong with that!) as they are auditioning for work. Many are skilled to work at flexible jobs that allow them to audition. I know many in this field who are not waiters. I don't anticipate my D being a waitress because she has skills to do many kinds of jobs as she pursues work on stage. She has a part time job in NYC now that she could continue when she graduates and do many more hours as she auditions. It is related to musical theater and children. She can get paid as a piano accompanist for shows and auditions. She can choreograph or musically direct. She can do jobs that involve writing. I am not concerned about her finding work overall. She may not find work on stage, but her chances of holding a job are as good as any college graduate.</p>

<p>I don't think its a sneaky thing to do at all for a young adult -- as long as it isn't done on the assumption that the parent will pay. And I really don't think Eloise's daughter did it thinking that she would end up in this situation: she probably figured that she probably wouldn't get in, but that if she did get in, she would get adequate financial aid and it wouldn't be a problem. </p>

<p>I note that Eloise reported in the first post that she found out about it NOT by d. calling and asking for money, but because of the arrival of the fat envelope at their house. (I was flabbergasted last week when a big NYU envelope arrived...My brief euphoia was oveshadowed by rising panic.) </p>

<p>At least from the post, it looks like Mom opened the admissions packet and started worrying about money before d. even saw it. </p>

<p>So the one thing I keep sensing from all of this is that no one has yet asked d. what her opinion is. The mom is panicking -- but for all we know, d. has other irons in the fire and some contingency plans she hasn't discussed with mom.</p>

<p>This isn't "sneaking" - this is the way that independent young adults act. They do things and tell the parents about them later. They do NOT <em>expect</em> that the parents will pay, but they may <em>ask</em> the parent for financial help. But independent, responsible young adults usually do their own planning and analysis first -- so I would expect Eloise's daughter to have done the math to figure out what she can earn over the summer, and how much she is willing or able to shoulder in loans, before asking her parents what they can contribute.</p>

<p>Soozie, you missed the point here. The family's circumstances changed dramatically since this kid was in HS since the dad is now out of the picture, so looking backwards at what they might have been able to afford two years ago doesn't really help the OP. The fact that at one time they considered NYU doesn't change the fact that going forward, attending NYU is going to involve considerable risk and sacrifice for this family.</p>

<p>We can't make the decision for them.... but coulda, shoulda woulda doesn't help. It's great that you and hubby have decided to assume the risk of paying back your kids loans, regardless of their future ability to pay, but you're in a different boat than a single mom with four kids. Plus, living in a rural, low cost of living area gives you a different picture for retirement than someone in an urban area with high taxes, high costs for real estate, etc. Cut this mom some slack!!!!</p>

<h1>19. I fully expect that continued uncontrolled government spendings and depreciation of US $ will cause inflation and thereby reduce the burden on fixed loans, be it housing or student loans. IMHO.</h1>

<p>" so I would expect Eloise's daughter to have done the math to figure out what she can earn over the summer, and how much she is willing or able to shoulder in loans, before asking her parents what they can contribute."</p>

<p>I know very, very few college sophomores familiar with loan repayment or amortization tables. I know even fewer who can compute the impacts of loan repayment on future lifestyle and employment choices.:(</p>

<p>"I fully expect that continued uncontrolled government spendings and depreciation of US $ will cause inflation and thereby reduce the burden on fixed loans, be it housing or student loans."</p>

<p>Agreed, but the other impact may be that it becomes increasingly impossible for stages offering musical theater to stay in business, as the cost of delivering the product increases faster than the ability to price it adequately.</p>

<p>From the Tisch website: </p>

<p>
[quote]
I’ve recently been admitted to Tisch and would like to request a deferment, what do I need to do?</p>

<p>Students requesting a deferment must apply in writing and include the following:</p>

<pre><code>* Why you are requesting a deferment
* What you plan on doing during the time of deferment
* The length of your deferment (a semester or a year)
</code></pre>

<p>(Note: Freshmen must start classes in the fall.)</p>

<p>Please send the completed form to:</p>

<p>Andrew I. Uriarte, Director of Recruitment
Tisch Office of Student Affairs
721 Broadway, 8th Floor
New York, NY 10003</p>

<p>It may also be faxed (212-995-4060) or e-mailed (<a href="mailto:andrew.uriarte@nyu.edu">andrew.uriarte@nyu.edu</a>) to the director of recruitment.</p>

<p>Deferral requests need to be in by the following dates:</p>

<pre><code>* Admitted students for Fall 2006: August 15, 2006
</code></pre>

<p>We will respond in writing to your request within two weeks of receipt of your completed application.

[/quote]

I don't know if this would apply to transfers as well.</p>

<p>My dream is a new Porsche GT 3. Around $100k in round numbers. Guess I should just order it and have my parents pick up the tab as I paid for my own college. It would make me so happy and nothing else will do.</p>