<p>Calmom, Then the independant adult student should not have expectations of a parent paying a good deal of the bill (which she may or may not b/c we do not know), but have figured out the finances independantly. If she would like considerable money from her parent, then she is no longer operating in a vacuum, and will need to consider needs other than her own. I do feel that this was sneaky and underhanded. It was not discussed with a parent, but done secretly with the help of a neighbor. I consider that sneaky.</p>
<p>mini's post #49 is sobering indeed. We still laugh because my 47 year old sister still "owes" my parents for a 1972 Duster that bit the dust (so to speak) sometime in the early 80's. Imagine owing your parents $90K! You've got to be kidding.</p>
<p>LOL, Barrons, I kept thinking of those examples, although it is not quite the same....jewelry, diamonds....</p>
<p>Take the neighbor with you to pick out the car, but don't discuss it with your wife, parent, or family until you have picked it out. That would not be sneaky, but independant.</p>
<p>weenie, I am not kidding. This is what is going on for a wonderful kid. My son is very upset about it.</p>
<p>northeastmom: Wow. The problem is, guess who can land in bankruptcy court? Not the kid - the loans aren't in their name. I wonder how many families do end up in bankruptcy court because of student loans? I know most are due to medical bills and other catastrophic events, but I bet these loans push more than a few families over the edge.</p>
<p>That's my point Northeastmom(re post #61). There is not a single post in this thread that indicates that Eloise's daughter ASKED her to pay. Eloise opened the mail, saw the award, ASSUMED that she would be asked to pay. That's a different thing. </p>
<p>I would not expect my children in college to discuss with me their transfer or graduate education plans - but of course they can't assume that I will pay, either. </p>
<p>Frankly, I don't understand the level of control that a parent would want over an over-18 child to characterize the mere application to a college as sneaky & underhanded. It hasn't cost the mom a dime to have the daughter apply. The only problem the mom faces is an emotional one of realizing that she wants to pay .... again, no evidence in the posts here that daughter has asked.</p>
<p>And if Barrons goes with his neighbor to test drive the Porche... what harm in that? The test-drive isn't a commitment to buy, nor is the college application a commitment to attend.</p>
<p>This is what I understand the breakdown to be: The student will have Safford and Perkins Loans, and the parents took out Parent Loans that they expect their D to pay back. I believe the parents are legally responsible for the parent loans that they are taking out, but they clearly told their D they expect her to repay them.</p>
<p>I concur with calmom's emphasis that the D hasn't, apparently, asked a thing--the Mom is trying to decide if she can do it.</p>
<p>And, comparing an education to a car, or jewels, like it's just another thing, is, well, just sad.</p>
<p>Calmom, True, but we all know that the money needs to come from somewhere/someone, if the D really wants to attend. If she were my D and asked me for the money, I would then discuss the sneaky behavior.</p>
<p>Through my education I have learned what the finest street automobile on the planet is. And satire. It's not like there are not other (less costly) places to learn song and dance. In fact I'd bet most of those singing and dancing their little hearts out on Broadway never set foot on a regular college campus to study song and dance. Maybe I need to spend more time on the song and dance board or whatever they call it here. I must admit I have never been there.</p>
<p>Maybe I missed this, as I didn't read every post, but maybe the "helpful" neighbor can suggest a solution!</p>
<p>Northeastmom, I'm just glad I'm not your daughter. Again - getting into the college is not a commitment or promise to attend -- I can't imagine why a parent would need to know. </p>
<p>What you consider "sneaky" I consider to be a sign of maturity. In fact, when my daughter was 15 years old and wanted a foreign exchange in Russia, the condition I put on it was that she had to make all arrangements for applying to the foreign exchange, getting together documents, completing required interviews, etc on her own. I said that I wouldn't be involved except for signing documents specifically requested from parents. I used that as my "test" of her maturity and readiness to live on her own abroad. </p>
<p>Again: nothing obligates the parents to pay. And in my mind, there's no real point in asking the parent until the admission letter and financial aid award is in hand -- up until then it's only hypothetical. "Mom, if I get into Tisch and then they give me lousy financial aid, will you pay it all?" is kind of a dumb question -- the mom doesn't need to know if the kid doesn't get in, and you can't know what NYU aid is going to be until you see it. NYU does leverage, which means it gives excellent financial aid to a very small number of students. </p>
<p>By the way - my daughter has also applied for about $20K in outside scholarship money without my help or involvement, either. Eloise's daughter might easily have done the same -- so for all we know she may still be waiting to hear from some other funding sources.</p>
<p>lkf725, I've thought about that too, quite seriously. If the neighbor is well-off financially, the neighbor might be willing to sponsor the student -- we don't know what the relationship is and I know of many cases of students getting help from people outside their family.</p>
<p>"Northeastmom, I'm just glad I'm not your daughter."</p>
<p>Okay, but my sons feel differently. </p>
<p>Your D did discuss Russia with you, and I think that the way you encouraged her to take care of the specifics was great. It isn't the same. Your D came to you and discussed her wishes to go to Russia. Eloise's D apparently did not discuss her wishes with her mother. She discussed them with a neighbor though.</p>
<p>Good Lord! I didn't realize I would be getting so many varied replies and comments! </p>
<p>I guess I need to clear up a few things:</p>
<p>My kids are fairly independent and I haven't hovered much. My kids have always taken care of their own college business, I never helped with their applications or essays beyond giving them the ap fees. My three oldest kids have traveled all over the world (Central America, Australia, Mongolia, multi trips to Europe, Canada, China, Carribbean) on student exchanges, church pilgrimages, choir trips.... whatever they could arrange themselves for free or at very low cost through various service organizations. My daughter and her high school principal are the ones who drummed up the free ride at her current college which, sadly, has not been a great experience. My daughter had a parttime job at college this past year; she told me she paid her own $65 fee to NYU, hired herself a voice coach (she has never had formal training), and got herself up to NYC for the audition. So, it never even occured to me that my daughter was "sneaking around" by re-applying to NYU as my kids always have gadabout plans.</p>
<p>I must have cast my neighbor as a busybody, that was not my intention. He was not having secret, behind-my-back talks with my daughter. He is a big shot stage director who is keenly aware of her potential and he has always encouraged her to go for the BFA at NYU (he and his wife went there and they have had successful stage careers.) I doubt that the financial realities of attending NYU occured to my neighbor as we live in an affluent neighborhood where appearances can be deceiving. (He does not know the sale of our house is imminent.) </p>
<p>When I saw the Big Envelope last week I did not open it. (However I did call a friend and shrieked OMIGOD THERE IS A BIG ENVELOPE FROM NYU HERE!!!) Then I called my daughter at school, she told me to open it, and she was so overwhelmed at its contents that she cried with joy and then told me the story of her "botched" audition in March. She has not once asked me to foot the bill as she is aware of our finances but still my head is spinning trying to figure out if there is a way we can manage this without jeopardizing my retirement, my other childrens' educations, or my daughter's post-college financial life. And it may be impossible, alas.</p>
<p>So that's my story. My daughter has drafted an appeal letter to finaid. I am going to see my lawyer and an accountant this week. We have 2 weeks to come up with a plan! </p>
<p>All your points of view have merit and were appreciated (OK, except for the "sneaking around" part.) </p>
<p>THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING.</p>
<p>Well, I wish you and your family all the best. I hope that you come up with a plan, and I am glad that you do not feel the way I perceived it, as sneaky. Perhaps your neighbor may also come up with scholarship possibilities.</p>
<p>Yes, I am wondering if the neighbor has any ideas. They are due back from NY tomorrow and we are going to talk with him about oddball grants/scholarships etc that we may not know about!</p>
<p>There is a chance that your neighbor would know of some of these. I think that you are doing everything possible, in such a short period of time.</p>
<p>Even if he is not willing to sponsor you daughter, maybe he has some big-shot connections at NYU that could result in a better financial aid package. I'd have a friendly talk across the fence and let him know how thrilled you all are at the prospect of this opportunity, but that you really don't know that you can afford it. Maybe he will offer to help or intercede in some way. Good luck to your talented daughter!</p>
<p>Fingers crossed for you, eloise. I think you are taking a very sane approach to this. I truly hope that you and your D will find a way to make this happen.</p>
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<p>Over in Sinners Alley, we have a chicken bucket we pass around when the financial aid outlook appears dicey. So far, all 3 families we've passed the hat for came out smelling like a rose, so our chicken bucket overfloweth. I think we have good karma :D. So you may want to head over there. ;)</p>