<p>There is no certainty to religion. I feel its a waste of time to go to church and pray when there is no proof of any God. Just live your life on Earth and then when you die hopefully something will provide answers.</p>
<p>well i guess it's not a waste of time if religion provides you with the strenghth to carry on in times of hardship or inspires you to aid others. of course, that doesn't apply to everyone...</p>
<p>mmm triceratops. :)</p>
<p>it's called faith for a reason airforce</p>
<p>Not a big fan of Pascal's Wager, eh AirForce1? :)</p>
<p>There is a God and He works in mysterious ways and I'm content with not having all the answers. </p>
<p>I also believe
* everything happens for a reason
* everything is part of a greater plan </p>
<p>and I like Thomas Aquinas' way of explaining things: </p>
<p>Five Ways</p>
<p>Laws of Motion
1) Nothing can move itself.
2) If every object in motion had a mover, then the first object in motion needed a mover.
3) This first mover is the Unmoved Mover, called God. </p>
<p>Causation of existence
1) There exists things that are caused (created) by other things.
2) Nothing can be the cause of itself (nothing can create itself.)
3) There can not be an endless string of objects causing other objects to exist.
4) Therefore, ther must be an uncaused first cause called God. </p>
<p>Contingent and necessary objects
1) Contingent beings are caused.
2) Not every being can be contingent.
3) There must exist a being which is necessary to cause contingent beings.
4) This necessary being is God. </p>
<p>The Argument From Degrees And Perfection
*St. Thomas formulated this Way from a very interesting observation about the qualities of things. For example one may say that of two marble scultures one is more beautiful than the other. So for these two objects, one has a greater degree of beauty than the next. This is referred to as degrees or gradation of a quality. From this fact Aquinas concluded that for any given quality (e.g. goodness, beauty, knowledge) there must be an perfect standard by which all such qualities are measured. These perfections are contained in God. </p>
<p>*The Agrument From Intelligent Design
The final Way that St. Thomas Aquinas speaks of has to do with the observable universe and the order of nature. Aquinas states that common sense tells us that the universe works in such a way, that one can conclude that is was designed by an intelligent designer, God. In other words, all physical laws and the order of nature and life were designed and ordered by God, the intellgent designer. </p>
<p>i got this info from this site: <a href="http://members.aol.com/plweiss1/aquinas.htm%5B/url%5D">http://members.aol.com/plweiss1/aquinas.htm</a></p>
<p>I also believe
* everything happens for a reason
* everything is part of a greater plan</p>
<p>Now that does present some problems with free will, don't you think?</p>
<p>Think of life as a play. You think you are making choices, but in fact they are just what is meant to happen. No conflict with free will there.</p>
<p>"You think you are making choices, but in fact they are just what is meant to happen. No conflict with free will there."</p>
<p>Aren't you contradicting yourself? :confused:</p>
<p>I guess what he means is that your choices are part of a greater plan, so while you have those choices you are destined to choose one....I guess.</p>
<p>I guess what he means is that your choices are part of a greater plan, so while you have those choices you are destined to choose one....I guess.</p>
<p>perhaps, but that's not free will...</p>
<p>Airforce1, it is true that there is no proof of god, and from standpoints it's easy to dismiss the existence of any god. However with that being said, humans have always had a calling towards faith, it gives us comfort, and even at times it offers us answers for questions that are hard to answer. So even if educational speaking you can argue against the existence of a god, it's important to understand that religion does have a very important place in the social fabric of mankind.</p>
<p>I'm Catholic, but I have some major problems with the belief that "everything happens for a reason" because it creates quite a twisted God. If everything happens for a reason, then say, God willed the cancer that struck someone's mother, or preordained that carcrash that killed an aunt, etc. </p>
<p>Now before you reply, "well, it can change who we are, we grow from tragedy," then you're saying that God merely screws around with lives and arbitrarily kills people or causes tragedy to make a point. I'm sorry that I don't know your life circumstances, but from my view people who make that kind of statement are either incredibly dillusional or have never experienced a real tragedy in their lives. </p>
<p>If there is a certain end that we all will meet, then you're saying that God designs that end (part of His grand plan), but then you're saying God designs that people suffer from cancer, random shootings, accidents, etc, which condraticts the typical notion of God as all loving and humans as the cause of suffering. </p>
<p>By chance do you believe in pre-destination? Because I must ask if we are all destined to end up at some definite place, what's the point of religion, worshipping, following church teachings, etc? </p>
<p>I'm sorry for being a bit harsh, but I'm a bit sensative when people try to explain tragedy with "it all happens for a reason," because if it's true, people are worshipping a very f-ed up God. I believe in God, but I do not believe in fate and destiny. </p>
<p>Here's a good religious quote to end the post:
"Keaton always said, 'I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him.' Well, I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me...is Keyser Soze." - Verbal Kint, "The Usual Suspects"</p>
<p>can we all come to a consensus... <em>Dinosaurs are awesome?</em></p>
<p>they are!!! i think all the bones and stuff we uncover are awesome!</p>
<p>I'll second that Dinosaurs are pretty darn cool!</p>
<p>God definitely doesn't exist</p>
<p>obama/clinton '08</p>
<p>"Not a big fan of Pascal's Wager, eh AirForce1?" i was gonna bring up that point, but you beat me too it. Kind of deminishes the whole point of God, but quite interesting nevertheless</p>
<p>"God definitely doesn't exist</p>
<p>obama/clinton '08"</p>
<p>omg lmao!! i fell out of my chair (ok not really but this one cracked me up!!) oh btw I am a full-fledged Dem and im just drooling over that possible ticket!</p>
<p>Well, I can tell that what I'm going to say isn't going to go over too well, but for the sake of debate:</p>
<p>One of the primary issues with non-professional theological debates and in fact society in general is delusional self-esteem. What I mean by this is the subconscious (or perhaps conscious!) notion that I'm hot stuff, and since I'm such a cool and froody dude I deserve answers/solutions to problems/financial security/no tragedies from God. Well, to properly have something of an untinted view of God, you must realize that, well, you're not hot stuff. You're probably not even the smartest kid in your class, much less the smartest person alive, and the smartest person alive couldn't hold a chalkboard to God's intelligence and wisdom.</p>
<p>By no means am I saying not to debate, wonder, and think about it. After all, God gave us the ability to think, to wonder about the extravagant universe He made. However, if you choose to be closed-minded and assume, since I can't understand how God operates, He must not exist/not be all that he's cracked up to be/"f-ed up", then odds are the problem's on your end. I'm not singling out anyone in particular; we all have that notion individualistic notion (it's good in certain cases, but most of the time the Me Me Me ideals pounded into our subconscious by the media and our culture are nothing but a hindrance).</p>
<p>I would have to dispute the point that most of the smartest people in the world are nonbelievers. I'm sure it may seem that way, but consider the media influence and how it typically holds its biases. I think we'd all agree that textbook makers would rather separate church and state and keep the theology out of the schools (and rightly so).</p>
<p>As for God allowing bad things to happen to good people, there is no conclusive answer (if there was, it wouldn't be one of the central questions of philosophy!). But if you believe in God, you should trust in his plan. Just because you don't understand why doesn't mean he's "f-ed up". He provided us with a habitable planet in a virtually uninhabitable universe, He provided you with a good life, and He provided you with his son Jesus so that you can sin and still make it to heaven (yeah, yeah, I know, I'll keep it restricted to generic theism). His track record is pretty darn good, yeah? So since proof one way or another isn't available, wouldn't you agree one could infer that even the bad things that happen will be for a good reason? Just a thought.</p>
<p>All that being said, dinosaurs are pretty cool, despite their deadness. Not a big fan of the big predator raptors and stuff, though. Little too unfriendly for me. I'll take a Stegosaurus any day.</p>
<p>Obviously a well thought out post, pookdogg. You will note that in my original post, I included "2) There is a God, he is omnipotent, but his priorities are beyond human comprehension," which I consider to be a very valid possibility and seems to be what you are saying. I in no way said that god is "f-ed up," just for the record. In fact, what I was trying to get at is the big question. WHY does god need or want our belief, or even want us with him in Heaven? If it is true that "you're not hot stuff. You're probably not even the smartest kid in your class, much less the smartest person alive, and the smartest person alive couldn't hold a chalkboard to God's intelligence and wisdom," why would god want you in heaven? As a pet? Couldn't god create his own "pets" (i.e. beings far below him in "intelligence and wisdom") without making them go through the fiasco of life here on earth? Presuming an immortal soul, if god is omnipotent and knows the beginning from the end, why would he create children who he <em>knows</em> are going to go to hell? Wouldn't it be kinder to not create them at all?</p>
<p>"Not a big fan of Pascal's Wager, eh AirForce1"</p>
<p>I don't know about AirForce1, but I don't like those odds.</p>