<p>Perfect people are nice.</p>
<p>Even if perfect people exist,</p>
<p>Even if your personal, subjective opinion says that nice is part of perfect,</p>
<p>Who the |-| E |_ |_ cares?</p>
<p>Take a position, and defend it, or argue or agree with a previous one, or don't say anything. God is love? That's not a position!</p>
<p>I can be very astute.</p>
<p>I wouldn't want to push it, now.</p>
<p>It's kind of ironic that the more civilised we get, the more distanced we get from the notion of God. It's like we're subconsciously promoting that just because we're coming out with exciting new technology and gosh! - jumping off to land on red planets, and being elite by bombing and nuking each other out, that somehow destiny is controlled.</p>
<p>Not that we can't shape our futures, but it's not, you dumb fuc|{s. You'll realise that destiny can't be controlled, because there are times in your life when you try your hardest to control everything in your battery-charged human power but you simply lose.</p>
<p>Think believing in God is somehow illogical, or on par with fire-breathing dragons and harmless little pink fairies? Sorry to burst your narrow-minded bubble, but you're no more sheep than the rest of the so-called retarded religious tribes which you so profess to hate.</p>
<p>God is the Essence of Creation - there's no point deciphering God when He is the Root Square. Remember that.</p>
<p>On that note, people automatically assume that God is this hippie in pristine white robes, and a beard which looks like grey candyfloss, gloating in the heavens above. I don't know about you guys, but surely God is a Divine Power rather than the biblical imagery figure of a human male, which has been conceived in the trivial, faltering minds of an elite creation that has only been accredited limited knowledge.</p>
<p>Try to riddle with God though, and He'll riddle you dry.</p>
<p>God is Time, Power and Might.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sorry to burst your narrow-minded bubble, but you're no more sheep than the rest of the so-called retarded religious tribes which you so profess to hate.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>im sorry? we never professed hate towards anybody.</p>
<p>
[quote]
On that note, people automatically assume that God is this hippie in pristine white robes, and a beard which looks like grey candyfloss, gloating in the heavens above. I don't know about you guys, but surely God is a Divine Power rather than the biblical imagery figure of a human male, which has been conceived in the trivial, faltering minds of an elite creation that has only been accredited limited knowledge.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>just a suggestion, but you should actually read what we write before you start being presumptuous.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's kind of ironic that the more civilised we get, the more distanced we get from the notion of God. It's like we're subconsciously promoting that just because we're coming out with exciting new technology and gosh! - jumping off to land on red planets, and being elite by bombing and nuking each other out, that somehow destiny is controlled.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First of all, there isn't anything ironic about the connection between civilization and god. And no one is jumping on red planets or being "elite" as you describe it. As we have progressed, it has been easier for people to dissent from what is commonly believed...and that has allowed us to put forward many more ideas than in the past. Sure, in the 14th century, people might have thought what I do...but they would be tortured for saying it. And therefore, they would not say it, and others wouldn't get an opportunity to hear it. As Brian in Family Guy put it, * Believe as I do or I will hurt you, that's very Christian. *. I don't think that this is universally true, but verbally, it often is. There is no logical argument put forth for Christianity (even the arguments in Mere Christianity have been greatly overturned since it was published). I still believe, though, that religious people are quite smart...at least they find a way to feel happy and to comfort themselves in times of need, something us agnostics often choose to struggle with.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Not that we can't shape our futures, but it's not, you dumb fuc|{s.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't really understand this sentence...perhaps you could clear it up?</p>
<p>
[quote]
You'll realise that destiny can't be controlled, because there are times in your life when you try your hardest to control everything in your battery-charged human power but you simply lose.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And who is to say that there is some outside force, with human-like qualities of conscience, that controls destiny? Could it not just be a collection of tiny forces, or even * no * clear forces? And just because one can't control things does not legitimize god. There is no connection...maybe * no * individual being or thing is controlling destiny.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Think believing in God is somehow illogical, or on par with fire-breathing dragons and harmless little pink fairies?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Illogical, yes...on par with fire-breathing dragons and pink fairies? Well, the idea of god is more complex than physical objects, but it is still not confirmable. So, yes, in a way.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sorry to burst your narrow-minded bubble, but you're no more sheep than the rest of the so-called retarded religious tribes which you so profess to hate.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not being narrowminded here...I'm saying, quite simply, I don't know. And there is no side to which I have given my full support...just because no side has fully convinced me. If anything, I am considering many ideas. I have considered the idea of god. I used to be quite religious. But now, I don't see how humans can judge or know whether or not there is a god, at least with certainty. And how am I a sheep? Is a sheep one who believes something without evidence, or because others are believing it? I'm surely not a sheep if a sheep is one who follows the majority. In fact, I can be persecuted for my opinions in many countries (and even verbally persecuted in the United States). I just look for ** reason **. Faith disgusts me, because it allows little room for rationality.</p>
<p>
[quote]
God is the Essence of Creation - there's no point deciphering God when He is the Root Square. Remember that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So, you say that there * is * a god, but there is no point in discussing whether or not there * is * a god? That doesn't seem rational. And I don't see much to remember...is it something that I should know? It's not as if god has reared his/her/its head in the past.</p>
<p>
[quote]
On that note, people automatically assume that God is this hippie in pristine white robes, and a beard which looks like grey candyfloss, gloating in the heavens above. I don't know about you guys, but surely God is a Divine Power rather than the biblical imagery figure of a human male, which has been conceived in the trivial, faltering minds of an elite creation that has only been accredited limited knowledge.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>People who assume that God is a "hippie" are as misdirected as you. They are making assumptions without having any facts to back up their knowledge.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Try to riddle with God though, and He'll riddle you dry.</p>
<p>God is Time, Power and Might.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh, god will riddle me dry because...because....I can't find a reason for him to exist? And he can't provide me with a reason...because there is no rationality for him to exist? Well then, an atheist might argue, the void that is present because of the lack of god can riddle me dry equally well....as can "fire-breathing dragons" and "pink fairies."</p>
<p>I suggest you read a few more quotes from your Teen Bible...I hope they get more original than "time, power and might"...sounds like a priest decided to copy his descriptions from captain planet.</p>
<p>Hate and disagree with are very different. I hate religion, but not the people who practice religion. They can do whatever they want.</p>
<p>Gumball, your response was pretty much the following:</p>
<p>God is all-powerful, so just accept it and move on.</p>
<p>What this seems like to me is that you're telling us to accept the irrationalities of the traditional Diety and just pass them off as something we just can't understand. This doesn't make any sense to me-- is God rational or is he not?</p>
<p>If God is rational, I'm more than willing to believe in Him. However, if God is rational, and we're created in the image of God, all of his rationale should be clearly available to us. There is no reason that God can understand something that our logical minds (that he has given us) can't comprehend, and you're telling us just that. We cannot understand God.</p>
<p>Therefore, God must be, on some basic level, irrational. And I choose to edge away from believing in an irrational God.</p>
<p>You know what's very interesting about this? I recently was reading about the Free Masons and their system of beliefs, and surprisingly I agree with a lot of their ideas. They believe in reason beyond all else, do not persecute religions, and basically believe there is a supreme being, but none of the other crap that normally goes along with it. The system of morals and values is based upon good character and rational thinking rather than "God says so" and people are judged on their good works, rather than going to church every sunday and paying your dues since you know... "God says so" to dues and mass.</p>
<p>Well. I also believe that morals and values enforced by a God aren't as "good" as those enforced by our own reason. If you're doing good because you're afraid of going to hell, you're not doing good for the right reason (IMO).</p>
<p>Most people are quick to say they're not doing it because they're afraid of going to hell, but then why do they still cling to the deity? If their own conscience can do just as well (if not better in some (fundamentalist) cases)?</p>
<p>I'm a believer!</p>
<p>to arthurbulla:</p>
<p>"If God is rational, I'm more than willing to believe in Him. However, if God is rational, and we're created in the image of God, all of his rationale should be clearly available to us. There is no reason that God can understand something that our logical minds (that he has given us) can't comprehend, and you're telling us just that. We cannot understand God.</p>
<p>Therefore, God must be, on some basic level, irrational. And I choose to edge away from believing in an irrational God."</p>
<p>This argument is slightly irrational. If I made a painting, will the painting know everything I know? It would simply show what I know, (just as the complexity of the human body shows what God knows), but it is nearly impossible for the created to be able to create as the creator. </p>
<p>anyway, what are the irrational concepts with God that bother you?? I'd be very happy to discuss on this since I went from skeptic/mythic to total believer!</p>
<p>Minor detail: paintings are inanimate.</p>
<p>thanks for pointing out the drastic difference between the creator and the created, but i think most people got that one, DMRenrel~</p>
<p>this thread is getting way too stupid.. oh wells.. not like our views matter.. what are you goign to do when you're dead.. say i wasted my time arguing about god on a mere dicussion board</p>
<p>There's a difference. We're supposed to have been created in the image of God, and God wants us to use what he gave us to believe in him.</p>
<p>When we create paintings, we're not asking them to understand us, nor are we expecting them to be like us.</p>
<p>And the conclusion of your argument is that God didn't make us rational enough to understand his Awesome Power... why not?</p>
<p>As for irrational concepts, how about... why did God require blood sacrifices from the Hebrews, but he no longer requires them for us? The answer is Jesus is the sacrifice, but then why didn't God send Jesus down earlier? Why did he require the Jews to sacrifice their animals at all? What was so special about the specific era Jesus was sent into?</p>
<p>And why, in the story of Cain and Abel, was God displeased with Cain's (fruit) sacrifice and pleased with Abel's (blood) sacrifice? Did God prefer the gore? What else could Cain have done? He was a farmer, not a shepherd.</p>
<p>People will say that Cain didn't give the fruit with the right intentions, but then: 1. Why did the authors of Genesis make the distinction between fruit and animal? 2. Why doesn't the Bible actually SAY that Cain "didn't give the fruit with the right intentions?"</p>
<p>God does exist. case closed.</p>
<p>Arthur Bula- the asnwer I have always been given as to why sacrifices are no longer made:</p>
<p>They were required to made on certain alters in THE temple(s). Since both were destroyed and no new one was built, the rabbis of the age decided god no longer wanted sacrifices. if i remember right.</p>
<p>anyways, thats irrelavent.</p>
<p>riptide, your as much of an idiot as gumball. back your opinion up. this isn't one of those what were your grades threads where everyone posts for an ego boost. make a specific stance, or talk about an already made one. or aim/googel talk me.</p>
<p>I Don't believe in god and i consider anyone who does to be a hypocrit.....</p>
<p>Well, all you really did was defend the signs that God no longer wants sacrifices. But why did he change his mind?</p>
<p>FSU-UF... you're doing just what the other ones are doing, simply stating without reasons.</p>