Going back to art school after $118k in student loan debt? Is it possible to pay back loans?

Parent Cafe
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I posted a thread a while back about cautioning people to do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what I am now about to ask advice about from others.

Currently, I am in the process of pursuing a degree in nursing. I am transferring to a CC and thus have three semesters left in an AA degree with an option to directly get into a one year BSN degree after that. I am now 26 years old and graduated HS in 2007. I went to art school when I was 18-19, first at Massart, then at RISD. I was forced to leave, much to my huge huge dismay, because my cosigner stopped. It turned my whole life around and everything I had ever planned for. The last six years of my life have been a huge blur of everything I have hoped would never happen. But yeah. I took a few years off before returning to school for nursing. I went to a public college (didn’t get into the school as an internal nursing student transfer), then a private college, then…

I had to take the last year off from school for a variety of reasons. The biggest reason being because of poor mental health. I have dealt with severe depression and anxiety for the last five and a half years. It started six months after I was forced to leave school due to money and had a psychotic break due to a depressive episode since my depression got so bad. However, my pediatrician told my mom when I was as young as 8 that she thought I had depression. My mom just didn’t believe in mental illness. In the last five and a half years, I have tried 19 different medications and multiple therapists. I just got put on two new medications that I’m hoping will help me; I am very depressed at the moment and doing worse than I have in very a long time. The last few months, I have also dealt with new onset of chronic migraines. Luckily, they are finally getting under control, after having them every day for three months straight - yes, migraines, or headaches, every day. It’s been debilitating beyond belief. I also have IBS, GERD, asthma, eczema, allergies, and various other health issues (ie sometimes unexplained daily hives, and a few episodes of esophagitis that I’m waiting on getting an endoscopy for, tachycardia that I need to get a Holter monitor for). A lot of it is due hugely to anxiety. Sources are like from strained relationships with my parents, with them constantly screaming at me, swearing at me, and sometimes getting violent. I worry that this means I am not ready to return to school in September. Am I? I say am I - but I really feel like I am not. My most recent psychologist has referred me to a partial hospitalization program for depression. I have been so non-functioning recently that I’ve gone a week without showering, hardly leaving my bed. It’s been very bad. The new medications seem to be helping somewhat but I have horrible anxiety attacks and slip into depression that lasts for a long time whenever I think about going back to school. More on that later.

I work as a PCA in a hospital, and have done so for over a year. I am excellent at my job and regularly receive praise from patients, fellow coworkers, and supervisors. I am in disbelief I am that able to fake it.

However, I spend my shifts anxious beyond belief, and break down in utter exhaustion when I am home and stress out badly when I am not there. It takes over my life - work and stressing. I have barely worked in the four months since the migraines started, even though I really need the money. I dread going to work and have panic attacks over it.

In my first semester in nursing school, I received the highest GPA out of my class of 40 students and was the only one to make the dean’s list. I am capable of doing the work. I am very intelligent. However, I have many problems that started nearing the end of that semester that have made me terrified of returning and wonder if nursing is something that will make me happy in the long run. I was regularly suicidal, calling the suicide hotline, and having screaming, hyperventilating, huge hours long anxiety attacks. I cannot say enough how horrible this was. This was nearly an everyday thing by the end. I freak out every single time the thought of returning to school crosses my mind because I think back to this. None of these problems has been fixed. Many of the problems associated with this, included chronic procrastination, lateness, and absenteeism (albeit due to illness such as migraines, which I need to learn to live with, I guess :/) have gone on literally my whole life. I don’t know how to overcome them.

I regularly have what I refer to as identity crises, for the last few years. It always has to do with art vs nursing. I feel like I’m not being true to who I am as a person, as an essential part of who I am. I grew up my whole life forming who I was as an artist. I feel in a large way that I’m living a lie.

So. Nursing:

I absolutely love helping people. Love it. For so long, ever since I gave up my hopes on art after my psychotic break from depression and was diagnosed, I have felt that nursing has been my calling, and have felt great fulfillment from helping people. But the longer I do my job as a PCA, the more burnt out and stressed I am becoming. A lot of it is probably also due to stress in my personal life, my anxiety and depression in general; but, I am also very empathetic, and I take on the stress of their illnesses home with me, it’s a huge burden, and it’s become too much for me to handle. I feel terrible saying that. Patients regularly tell me that I’m “one of the good ones who actually cares” but that comes with a huge price. A patient recently remembered me even though I only had her once as a patient a year ago. I am so happy because that is a huge reason I chose to pursue nursing instead of art; to make a difference in peoples’ lives, to help, and to care for them.

The second biggest reason, unfortunately, is also because it would bring me a large salary (about $70k gross to start full time on the night shift where I currently work, confirmed by a current coworker who just started). This would make it so much easier to pay back my loans, which I’ve wanted for the longest time to do as quickly as possible so that I wouldn’t have it as a cloud over my head for the rest of my life. A huge reason for my depression and anxiety is also this huge debt. It’s ruining my life whenever I think about it. I just want to cry over all the mistakes I made getting myself into this with no escape and not knowing how to make it better. But, yeah. In many ways, I have viewed nursing as a means to an end. But don’t get me wrong, I very much enjoy it. It’s intellectually stimulating, and I love learning about all of it. It is just very challenging, time consuming, stressful, and makes my anxiety soar through the roof.

I have major procrastination issues. I put things off, and then in a cycle, I beat myself up for it and have regular break downs and panic attacks over it. It got worse and worse by the end of before I took a leave of absence. It was a living hell. The problems I don’t think have been fixed. See above where I say these problems have existed my whole life and I don’t know how they would be fixed. I see them being made hugely worse because I don’t see my heart in nursing anymore. It is stressful beyond belief and throw my depression, anxiety, and migraines etc. on top of it, and it is all the more difficult.

After searching for years, I was finally able to find a therapist who knows of a partial hospitalization program that goes from Monday through Friday, 9am-3pm. I am going to start this asap because I desperately need it.

(Post 1 of 2; to be continued in next post; reached character limit)

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Art:

I look back to when I was 19 and had to leave art school due to money, and wish I tried so much harder to make a strong portfolio to apply back to schools with the hopes of getting scholarships to cover the cost of returning. I have so many regrets. Saying that is an understatement. I miss doing art every single day. I miss art school, I miss thinking of a future with art, I miss the environment, I miss everything about it. I feel like I’m living a lie by becoming a nurse, in a way. Sure, it’ll bring me a good paycheck and I will be living out a part of myself by helping people and showing them love, which in my everyday life is the BIGGEST and best aspect of myself, but it doesn’t feel like I’m being true to who I am or what I’ve wanted to do my whole entire life. The biggest thing I will get out of becoming a nurse is financial stability and being able to pay off my loans. That’s it. Literally financial stability is it at this point. Helping people as well… but I really feel the stress will over shadow that. I help my friends and family in my daily life and that means a ton to me. At work, in nursing, I will come home exhausted, stressed, and collapse, with no energy or motivation to do anything, much like I do now as a PCA. I will take the stress out on my loved ones and they will suffer. Not fair to them.

Art revitalizes me. It makes me happy and alive. It takes my negative emotions and turns them into something positive. It makes me focus and lets me forget about my troubles. Working at a desk job would let me relax and not have to run around (aggravates migraines, if I have them). I really feel like art would make me so so so much happier. The biggest problem is the money.

So: My main question. Is it feasible to take yet another year off to work on a portfolio to hopefully get a large (I hope) scholarship to return to, say, Massart? I would have a year and a half or two left. I would commute. I live in MA, so in state tuition. I would major in, maybe, graphic design? (Even though I was pursuing illustration previously and that was my goal) Something that would lead to a desk job? I would love to do illustration, photography, or painting, but I could easily do those in my free time. Graphic design seems like the most secure job I could get. However, it goes back to the main concern my cosigner, and now I, have: is that enough of a salary to pay back my gigantic loans and live a decent life? I want to get married, buy a house, and have kids. I don’t want to live in my parents’ house forever. I want to get on with my life. I do still want financial security.

Right now, my mental health is so unstable. But the little art I’ve been doing has made me so happy and has helped me greatly. It’s been an outlet for me. My mental health worries me so much. I do not think I can handle nursing school in this state. I really don’t. I am going to get the opinions of more mental health professionals in my life as soon as possible because friends and family have no idea what to tell me. My mom says probably I can’t handle it but she’s never really been good at advice with school or anything.

Nursing stresses me out. So much. Clinicals stressed me out. Nursing school stressed me out. But not NORMAL stress. I say stress, but I should say anxiety. I don’t know if people can catch the difference. The day I took a leave of absence, I started having a panic attack at the beginning of a clinical. I was about to get report. The nurse was sweet and having a pleasant conversation with me. She said the patient was confused and it set me off, my palms got sweaty, my heart started racing, I lost the color from my face and she pointed it out, I had to excuse myself and I ran to the bathroom, threw up a bunch, sat on the bathroom floor and sobbed for five to ten minutes, called my mom crying, calmed down enough to tell my professor I had to leave, and took a cab home to my dorm where I cried more.

That is just ONE example out of the many horrifying days. I would go to the dining hall for 10 minutes, have a panic attack an come back to the dorm and nap for two hours, wake up and have a panic attack, not get work done, be exhausted, sleep through my alarm, be exhausted, throw up from stress… the cycle would perpetuate. I feel like I would be in the same, or worse, place, in nursing school right now. I’m barely working or doing much of anything and at times I’m at the brink of being deeply suicidal. How am I supposed to handle nursing school and working and my life and health (migraines especially) ? At least with art, I can pour my emotions into that and have it be an outlet.

Nursing is very challenging and time consuming as a job, and for school. It is for everyone, but put health issues, severe depression and anxiety, and abusive parents on top of it, and it just all adds up to a huge barrier to overcome.

Thoughts? I would appreciate it very much. Thank you!

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And since I don’t think I made it clear enough (?) My hopes would be that I would be able to get a scholarship to MassArt, and/or grants. Given my income, the latter wouldn’t be much of a problem, and given that I got accepted into RISD with scholarships, I’d like to think that wouldn’t be, either. I would like to think I wouldn’t get into any/ as much more debt with that plan, just like I wouldn’t with going to CC for nursing.

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However, it goes back to the main concern my cosigner, and now I, have: is that enough of a salary to pay back my gigantic loans and live a decent life? I want to get married, buy a house, and have kids. I don’t want to live in my parents’ house forever. I want to get on with my life. I do still want financial security.


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Are you saying that, right now, you already have $118k in student loan debt?

When you took a year off, did you have to start making payments? If so, how much were the monthly payments?

Are you asking if you should BORROW MORE to finish an art degree?

I don’t see how you’d even pay $118k back, much less more debt with an art degree.

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Doesn’t sound like you should be a nurse. It does sound like the partial hospitalization program is a good idea. I would not start another school program until you do that for awhile. You need to sort out your mental health issues first. Good luck.

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It’s funny how differently I can come across in one post vs another when I present myself in such a different way. Dang. Asking strangers on the internet might not be the right approach, you know? In this thread, I presented myself at my worst moments, vs where I posted less detail about the anxiety and depression in the art school thread. That wasn’t a wise choice on my part, to post the anxiety and depression on here. I’m not even feeling particularly bad tonight. I just like to plan for every contingency. I like to plan - I like to be in control even though you cannot really, most of the time. Those bad moment don’t make up the entirety of who I am, but I go through periods of being well and then not well. I currently have something around a 3.6 or 3.7 nursing GPA. So… I am capable of doing well, even when I was in the terrible states by the end. You will see in the other thread how people are saying that I should become a nurse and THEN an artist. I think that it’s the logical conclusion to come to. I guess I keep hoping that magically someone will tell me that, yes, it is possible that all my dreams will come true and that magically I can make a living off of art but I think that MOST of my anxiety and depression actually is CAUSED from my debt. I was actually doing MUCH BETTER until I left art school. I changed drastically after that. I think with a stable job as a nurse (note all the praise I receive) I can pay down my debt in under ten years (with planning of future mock budgeting I’ve done).

@mom2collegekids Yes, I have that amount in debt, sadly: From RISD, in-state MassArt and state school, private university with huge scholarships and grants. But it all added up (mostly RISD). Monthly payments are around $800; yikes, I know. $200 can be IBR; the rest is private loans. I am not asking if I should borrow more. I am asking if I should try to return to art school if I am able to cover it with scholarships and grants solely with no more debt. I am trying to get across my love for art. I am asking if I should be an artist professionally rather than a nurse. And thank you for the HELPFUL encouragement for paying back the money, as if I’m not already stressed enough! Means a lot! :smiley:

@gettingschooled Yes, definitely doing the program.

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I am glad you finally found a therapist. Are you taking anything for the anxiety right now? If not, that should be high on your priority list. You might be surprised at how much more functional you can become if you are properly medicated.

As for your future, there are two separate issues: what kind of career would make you happy, and how you can pay off that huge debt. I do think that you should continue to pursue nursing, because you do need a career that will make you enough money to pay down your debt. That’s not to say you can’t create art. There are many, many people who create art while also working at something else to pay the bills. I can’t see how working as a graphic designer would be any more satisfying to you than working as a nurse. Creating art of your own is different than turning out work according to someone else’s specifications.

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@dustypig I am taking many medications for anxiety and depression, yes: Klonopin, Propranolol PRN for anxiety, Fetzima, Lamictal, and was just put on Zyprexa 5mg and am titrating up to 100mg of Topamax and probably coming off of the Lamictal, if the Zyprexa/ Topamax combo is effective. I’m also on Nortryptiline, but that is for prophylaxis for migraines. Zyprexa has been the most effective medication I’ve ever been on, so I’ve gone on it a few times, but the longest I was on it (three months) made me gain 40 pounds and made me pre-diabetic, so I’ve been reluctant to go back on it. However, I am ALREADY noticing a big improvement in my symptoms. I noticed an improvement even the first day. It really has been a wonder drug for me when I’ve hit rock bottom, and I’ve only been on it for ten days. The trouble I have had with psych meds is the sedation. Depression makes me tired already, but pretty much all the medication I am on is very sedating on top of it. Zyprexa has finally reached the point where I’m not a zombie on it, but I’m still tired all the time. I have definitely had periods where I’ve functioned so I’m really hoping this combo will do the trick. Even though I haven’t been psychotic except for that one time, I came off my last antipsychotic (Seroquel) back in January, and that was probably a mistake. It seems to be a huge help for me.

I am still not sure how I can be functional with the sedation. I will have to figure that one out. Coffee makes me anxious beyond belief. I might be able to counteract that with the propranolol but I’m not sure.

Thank you for being honest about the career vs art. I don’t want people to get the idea that I hate nursing. I hate that I have a hard time coping with the stress. But even when I haven’t been in school, I’ve researched medical conditions for fun. I love working with patients at my job, even when it stresses me out, but even more so when I am less anxious and able to give 110%. The nurses in the ICU have run into me and asked me why I didn’t apply for a job (like they had asked me to) down there as a “critical care tech” (a step up from a PCA); I worked down there ONCE and hadn’t seen them in weeks since then. They said that I was memorable had done such an amazing job and asked me to float down there more. So, @gettingschooled I guess even though I am basically saying above that I want to be an artist, I am still so stuck with being so torn that I hope people can see my love for both.

Anyway. Thank you so much. I really needed the support of other people right now and I appreciate your encouragement letting me know that taking the track to become a nurse is good and that I can still do art. Thanks again :slight_smile:

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I sense an art therapist in the making - most in our area do both their own art and use art therapy to help people.

http://www.arttherapy.org/upload/aatafactsheet.pdf

The other thing about art and nursing - you can be a nurse and dabble in art, but it is hard to be an artist and dabble in nursing.

Have you contacted MassArt? Would they let you “take off” where you left off?

(I’m also wondering if you have a rare multisystem disease, and mental illness is more of a side effect. Those medical conditions don’t sound random, and saying “it’s just anxiety” seems like a copout. Lots of folks have anxiety, even severe anxiety like my brother (Paxil) and don’t have any of those other medical symptoms .)

If the money is the main issue, do you think your problems would be solved if suddenly you didn’t owe any money? Are your parents’ views of your large outstanding loans worse than having the loans?

(I’m sorry, I have to add this - a week without showering? I went a month or more without showering and didn’t think anything of it. Maybe you could stop beating yourself up about such silly things. Comb through your hair maybe, wear a hat. I could tell you about personal hygiene foibles far worse.)

If you stayed a PCA for a while, and did not go back to school, how soon could you pay off your loans, either completely or enough to refinance them to a smaller amount each month?

To be honest, is there any way to get some counseling from a financial adviser about how feasible your plan is? I think working on the debt and the mental health at the same time would be important.

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You said you’re a huge procrastinator. I don’t see how that equals any sort of success back at art school – all the while, you know you’re just kicking down the road the loan payments. I don’t see how art school and the career that follows – to be any source of remedy for your current burdens. You’re aware of your salary expectations after art school graduation, right? My brother is a top art college instructor. About 15% of grads are earning their primary income off of their craft five years out. I don’t think you want to be 34 with the realization your art degree won’t pay your bills as you apply to be a barista or waitress somewhere, especially if you need to protect your mental health (no shame in that, whatsoever). I’m sympathize but I don’t think the art school route is a good return on investment in time, money and your own energy & resources.

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@T26E4 Thank you for the reality check. Was obviously much needed. I need to fix the procrastination ASAP and need to become a nurse so that I can have the financial stability. I think once I have a stable nursing career it will be much much easier to devote time to art. I have been doing more in my free time without school. I’m not completely aware of salary after graduation, no. I was kind of hoping someone would say that they knew graphic designers who were making salaries that they could live on that would pay back my sort of loans while living a sustainable life. But I think the answer to that is a no. I think I’m just prolonging my misery and will have MORE and worse regrets later on if I go the art degree NOW route. Art will always be there. Prolonging financial stability and digging myself further in the whole for something that will not bring me much security is not a wise decision. Thank you for your kind reply. Much appreciated.

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I think throughout history, societies have not compensated artists, musicians and writers. They are essential. But our economy just doesn’t reward them. One of the hard realities my brother says to his 3rd and 4th year illustration students is this: “When you go out there with your portfolio to get that free lance job? I’ll be in the waiting room with my portfolio too.” Best of luck to you. Always look out for your health – there’s no substitute.

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You can’t take care others if you don’t take care of yourself first. Do that. First and foremost. If you are having trouble handling the responsibilities of a patient care advocate, yes, nursing, with variable hours (shifts) high pace, high stress, etc, will be a challenge. No to mention the boatload of debt you will amass.

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There are plenty of graphic designers who make a decent living.

BUT they don’t already have $100,000 plus in debt.

I’m not,sire,where you think you will get scholarships to fund your art degree. You will be applying as a transfer student. Most scholarship money is for incoming freshmen…and you are not one of those.

Is there any way for you to work in your current job type, and take art classes part time?

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Also, keep,in mind, your son’s way of doing things may change as well once he starts college!

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This:

dustypig wrote “you do need a career that will make you enough money to pay down your debt. That’s not to say you can’t create art. There are many, many people who create art while also working at something else to pay the bills. I can’t see how working as a graphic designer would be any more satisfying to you than working as a nurse. Creating art of your own is different than turning out work according to someone else’s specifications.”

You already are an artist, if you want to be. It isn’t an either/or proposition.
But like almost everyone else, you need a reliable job to pay the bills.
It has been my experience that immersing yourself in the “flow” of a creative activity is a tremendous anxiety reliever.

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If you want this, incurring more debt in a field with minimal ROI is not the wisest decision. Many, many people maintain their vocation in order to have the resources to pay their bills and pursue their avocation. You can do art on the side, submit to local or travelling shows, and combine a career and a hobby. But if you want to be financially secure and not dependent on others, unfortunately art isn’t likely the best way to do that.

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There are other ways to help people besides nursing if working in a hospital exacerbates your stress. Social work, school counseling, speech therapy, addiction counseling… I don’t think you need to frame your options as “Nurse or not”. Maybe your options are “Helping professions or not”.

I think you need to address your depression before you take on more debt, and I think if you haven’t worked with a CBT therapist before (alongside your meds) you might want to try. Someone who can work with you to develop specific and targeted behaviors to get you through stressful situations?

Your art will always be there for you. And I agree with the suggestion above to think about art therapy- assisted living facility, homeless shelter, school for kids with special needs- maybe these settings would be less stressful for you than a hospital?

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<<<
Yes, I have that amount in debt, sadly: From RISD, in-state MassArt and state school, private university with huge scholarships and grants. But it all added up (mostly RISD).

Monthly payments are around $800; yikes, I know. $200 can be IBR; the rest is private loans.

I am not asking if I should borrow more. I am asking if I should try to return to art school if I am able to cover it with scholarships and grants solely with no more debt.

I am trying to get across my love for art. I am asking if I should be an artist professionally rather than a nurse. And thank you for the HELPFUL encouragement for paying back the money, as if I’m not already stressed enough! Means a lot!


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I don’t see how you can get the rest of your art education covered with “grants and scholarships”. You can try, but that seems very unlikely.

Maybe the suggestion of an art therapist is a good one. Is that possible? Would that interest you? That $800 a month loan obligation is going to eat such a big chunk out of your TAKE HOME pay.

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Second what rhandco had to say about a possible multi-symptom disease. Have you had your thryoid fully checked? (Beyond basic TSH) Seen an endocrinologist? Might be worth exploring.