Going to an Ivy League

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

I come from a pretty small town in Missouri. I have about 150 people in my graduating class, and while I was thinking about college, the option of applying (and potentially going) to an Ivy League popped in my head. I’m ranked number one, I scored a 31 on my ACT (hopefully, that will improve by a few points), and I have taken every AP and dual credit class my school offers. However, I am extremely paranoid that this is not good enough, not by a long shot.

Given that it is a small town, as well as talking to some people from other places that I argue are much smarter and more intelligent than I, I don’t believe I will be able to compete with the best of the best. My education was not the best, and when I said “every AP class,” I meant somewhere in the range of 5. Even though I work extremely hard, I sometimes imagine going and being the lowest in prestigious central.

I guess this aspect of thinking about college boils down to a few potential questions. Number one, am I good enough to go to a school like Harvard? While I understand that it will be a tough transition going from #1 to something much lower, I am at least somewhat willing to learn from all the amazing potential surrounding me. However, my self-opinion isn’t the greatest, and if everyone has an intelligence kicking mine out of the water, then I don’t want to be struggling just to hold a conversation with someone. It also nags at me that a few individuals smarter/more intelligent than I am are not looking at these schools, so it makes me feel kind of unworthy.

Number two, what are my chances of getting in? Let’s say I get my ACT up to a 32, and I get a 5 on the AP Calculus BC exam I am independently studying for, and a 4 in AP Art History. (I got 5s in Gov and Psych last year and a 4 in Bio.) I can tell you all my extracurriculars another time; I have a few of them.

Number three, if I get in, what is the financial situation going to look like? Debt is something I am pretty scared about, and if I can lower the tuition I would have to pay by 85%, that was my ideal number. I would do anything to lower the cost; all-nighters filling out scholarships, studying for a better ACT, whatever it takes.

Part of me wants to go to be surrounded by amazing people that would understand me. I would know longer be the biggest nerd in my school. I would fit in with everyone, potentially. I would also meet some friends that would go places, and having connections is a pretty good part of the experience. Saying that Harvard looks like Hogwarts seems like an inappropriate reason, so I’ll just neglect that.

I would really appreciate any alumni from an Ivy League that could talk to me further to answer some of my questions. That would put my mind at ease, and I would be extremely grateful. Sorry for the long message.

2

Harvard is a long shot for everyone find other schools that give good merit as a backup.

3

It doesn’t have to be Harvard. I was only giving an example. Sorry for posting in the “Harvard Univeristy” section, though.

4

Even a 32 is low. What are your special qualities or achievements?

5

Nothing too significant. I have been playing piano for around 12 years, and I’m not half bad. I tutor all the time, spending a lot of hours volunteering in that respect. I’ve won a few state medals from an organization called Science Olympiad back in 7th/8th grade. I have a 3rd-degree black belt, which I would consider a little droll.

6
  1. Probably
  2. Not great
  3. That’s what the NPC is for

All the Ivies are different; saying you want to go to an Ivy is sort like saying, “I want a job in that building,” and not caring which job you’d be doing or for which company.

7

I personally found your “chance me” post to be more appealing and thoughtful than most, and I think the personal qualities that are evident in that short piece of writing to indicate you could actually fit in at a school like Harvard.

It is good that you realize it could involve some struggle academically, but with your attitude, you would catch up. Really think about that issue though: would it be better to be a bigger fish in a smaller (or less demanding) pond? Most kids are thinking only about getting in. You are unusually mature thinking about actually being there.

Since you are from a small town in Missouri, you would contribute to geographic and socioeconomic diversity, both important to admissions. So yes I would apply. But don’t operate as if you expect to get in! Kind of like throwing a basketball at the very end of a game! Still, I think you have a chance.

I often recommend the Colleges that Change Lives website and book (by Loren Pope, who also wrote “Looking Beyond the Ivy League.”) Check it out. You might also look at the “little Ivies” like Tufts, Amherst, Williams, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Bates, Wesleyan, Colby and a few other liberal arts colleges https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ivies

Harvard has amazing financial aid, as do some other elite schools. Families making up to $150,000 pay only 10% and families making under $65k pay nothing. If your family doesn’t fit these groups, think about schools with merit aid: Harvard doesn’t offer merit aid.

I say good for you for stepping outside the box. I hope you have support at your school and in your family for trying to go outside of your state and have an inspiring experience. Good luck!

8

Hey there! I’m a current sophomore at this ridiculous university that is Harvard. Through coincidence that strains credulity, I also come from a small town in Missouri and graduated in a class of around 150. In the class of 2019, I’m Missouri’s only small town kid, so it’s awesome to hear that you’re applying!

First of all, don’t worry about the limited AP classes. My illustrious high school offered a grand total of 0 AP’s. Harvard wants you to have taken advantage of the resources available to you; you won’t be thought badly of for not being captain of a debate team that didn’t exist in your school.

In terms of your chances, there’s really no one except for Dean Fitzsimmons that can definitively tell you. Unless your last name is “Obama”, that’s pretty much always the case. I had a 32 or 33 ACT, but also took the SAT and got a 2300. You might look into taking the SAT if you still can. I only took it the one time and did decently better on it than the ACT. The fact that you’re independently studying for AP tests is really good, as that shows that you’re actively looking for opportunities that weren’t presented to you, which the College is bound to like. At the end of the day though, anything could happen. There’s a lot of smart small town kids that apply. But hey, some of them get in!

Should things work out, I wouldn’t concern yourself about financial matters. As you probably know by now, Harvard’s financial aid is completely need-based. If you’re anything like me, Harvard will treat very well.

Finally, the whole “I’m not good enough thing.” As someone who goes here, I swear that people saying “Everybody is a genius except me” is one of the most common sentiments expressed on this campus. At this point, people tend to keep things like grades to themselves, and generally try to avoid comparisons to others. The best thing you can do is to just have a realistic idea of where you are and take courses appropriate to your level. I’ve made the best friends I could ever hope to have at Harvard, and it feels like more of a home to me than my own Missouri small town does. I’d wager that most of my friends did more in high school, and could probably say that they’re “smarter”, whatever that means. But it really doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, we’re all crying over midterms, being inconvenienced by the HUDS strike, cheering on the Crimson at football games, and shoving our way through tourists in Harvard Yard.

Again, I can’t pretend to be able to say whether you’ll be accepted. But you seem to have a really good attitude and personality. In my insignificant opinion, Harvard could really use some nice and humble small town people. Just be genuine in your essays, don’t pretend to be something your not, and perhaps I’ll be seeing you next year! Probably not, of course. But even if not, I’m sure you’ll end up right where you belong. Just shoot over a message if you want to talk more!

9

What a nice message.

10

You can target other top-tier colleges that are not Ivy League but offer excellent need-based financial aid. Take a look at Northwestern, Stanford, Vanderbilt, University of Chicago, Haverford, Colgate, Tufts, and Swarthmore.

What do you want to study?

11

OP, Harvard and its ilk obviously are hard to get into and your chances are nearly impossible to predict, other than to refer to these schools as reaches. I think that it is important for you to create a list of schools that fit your preferences – reaches, matches and safeties. To help us suggest these schools, please answer the following questions, if you don’t mind.

  1. Do you have any restrictions for size (number of students)?
  2. Do you have any preferences or restrictions for location (region) or type of setting (urban/rural/suburban)?
  3. Do you have any weather restrictions?
  4. As brantly is wondering, what are some things you might want to major in?
  5. Would you prefer heavy intellectualism and rigor or more of a laid back, "work hard/play hard" atmosphere?
  6. Do you have a problem with heavy Greek life?
  7. Would you have a problem with a high level of political activism?
  8. Is access to outdoor activities important to you?
12

Size, location, academics and “vibe.” Amherst has better financial aid than Tufts, I believe. There are tons of great schools out there.

You can go on school sites and figure out your family’s estimated financial contribution (EFC). Go to the financial aid page and do the calculator.

13

I would definitely like to talk more, if you don’t mind. After the day I had, I was about to make a separate thread. Your message almost brought a tear to my eye. Thank you for taking that time to be both genuine and realistic with me. If you are really okay with talking, just message me with any form of communication you are comfortable with.

14

Hey Tau,

A few thoughts from a current Harvard student:

  1. The academic prowess of students varies widely, even at places like Harvard. So, if you go to Harvard, I can say, fairly confidently, that you will not be the worst in the class, but also that you will not stand out as particularly brilliant (there are kids here who will have gotten perfect ACT scores in 7th grade without prepping at all). But does that matter?? Not at all! Harvard cares most that you have the ability and drive to take advantage of all the fantastic resources Harvard has to offer and give back to the community. The point is to come and learn, discover who it is you want to be and (at least start to) become that person. I think it's 1000x better to be a small fish in a big pond than a big fish in a small pond.
  2. You still have time to up your ACT (or SAT) score, which is very low for HYPSM (which stands for Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT). Do you have ~$100 to buy a few books? I would highly recommend Erica Meltzer's reading and writing books (for both ACT and SAT) http://thecriticalreader.com and Mike McClenathan's SAT Math https://pwntestprep.com/wp/-- in addition to the "Blue book" (for SAT) or "Real guide" (ACT). Study hard and try to get a 34/2200.
  3. Your geographic diversity would certainly help your application. Did your parents go to college? Are you any sort of minority? Low-income? etc.
  4. Have you made any good connections with your teachers? You should be thinking now about who (you'll need at least 2 teachers) you might want to ask for recommendations. Make sure to talk to them outside of class, ask for extra reading/ projects, help them if they need it-- mostly show interest (and be a generous person)!!
  5. Your extracurriculars are average, but with all your tutoring, you could certainly sell yourself as having a deep desire for knowledge and improving rural education etc. Martial Arts is also cool. Have you had any work experiences, however? Any summer jobs/ programs/ internships? Those are the sort of things you can be doing/ planning now which can help your application tons in a year or two from now.
  6. My suggestion would be to focus on these aspects for now and start really researching schools once you have your ACT/SAT score (probably in June?). I will say now, however, that you may be well-served by the Early Decision application program. Many schools offer a binding admissions cycle before the normal cycle which has higher rates of admission--note, though, that you must attend if admitted. If you can decide on a first-choice school by next September, then this might be a good option. Harvard does not offer ED (though it does offer a non-binding (and therefore less advantageous) early round). However, many other highly selective and academic institutions like Columbia, Duke and Williams do offer it. Williams' ED admit is 42% and average ACT is 33. Much better than the regular chances. My last piece of advice would be to try not to focus too much on HYPSM. I think you have a good chance of getting to a top-20 university, which is a huge achievement for anyone.

P.S. why is a (karate? judo? tae kwon do?) black belt droll?
P.P.S. I don’t think Harvard looks like Hogwarts. IMHO,Harvard’s facilities are somewhat lacking. Our two gyms are tiny and outdated and serve both the undergrads and grad students. My dorm room is literally a 12x5 ft cell. And the heat does not work (my room, as of last night, was 56 degrees F).

15

Another nice message from a current student.

ps Renovations are underway! Freshman dining hall does look a bit like Hogwart’s actually :slight_smile: