I live in a rural area, and I’m a junior. I’m #1 in my class by miles, and I go to a governor’s school for science/math in addition to my regular high school. Everyone around here always acts like getting into an Ivy League is a joke. I don’t know if anyone’s even applied. I do a fair number of extracurriculars - not too many, just the right amount I hope. I take 7 APs this year, and I make all A’s. I’ve never gotten a B on my report card in my life, lol. I took my first two APs last year (the most I could take with the required class schedules) and I got a 5 on AP World and a 3 on AP Comp Sci. I keep my summers busy, etc. One issue I see is my SAT/ACT scores. I plan to take them more than once, but my first-time scores (with little to no studying/prep beforehand) were a 1940 and a 32, respectively. Am I working in the right direction to get into these schools? What can I do? Could I get in now without changing anything? I can add more information as requested.
Okay, so you are the top student for miles, but judging from your own description the competition isn’t too impressive.
And, unfortunately, your 1940 tends to confirm suspicions of that type. 3/4 of the Harvard class scores above 2100.
At this point, the admissions committee will be looking for your essays to be stellar examples of great writing and your teacher recommendations to say that you are one of the best students they have taught…ever, just to keep you in the game.
You could also take those EC’s (whatever they are) to a level that demonstrates both avid participation and how you stand out, like competing for and winning a state-level award.
Your SATs are low, but your ACT could be competitive, were it raised 2 points or so.
Thanks for your tips! I’m definitely going to study a lot before I retake the SAT - I can see myself adding 100-200 points no problem if I put the time in. On the ECs point - I’m trying to really develop each one to where I can say I’ve done more than just be a member on the attendance sheet, if that makes sense. I also forgot to mention I do plenty of volunteer work - including Big Brothers Big Sisters, 4-H camps, and year-round Relay for Life fundraising. I do work, but only during the summer, as a counselor at a Boy Scout camp.
Woo, this is my time to shine! So, I’m also from a rural area. Town of 4000, school of 500, no APs offered, most people don’t even know that the SAT exists, most people either go to community college or don’t go at all, and we’ve never sent a student to an Ivy to my knowledge. I’ll be the first.
So yes, it’s absolutely possible! Your test scores are a bit on the low side, and you have to be aware that with a 6% acceptance rate that Harvard will be turning away a ton of extremely qualified people, but you definitely have a chance. You haven’t said anything about your ECs, and those will have to be good of course. That being said, don’t get too caught up on any one school, or the Ivies in general. Still, you’re doing good!
The ACT is supposed to be a curriculum-based test. That means that your test score is supposed to be directly relatable and in sync with your GPA. Studies have shown that most ‘A’ students score a 34, 35 or 36 on the test. Your ACT score is therefore out of sync with your GPA, which might be a red flag in the admissions process, as it signifies that your school’s grading policy is either too lenient or your school has grade inflation – neither one of those options will bode well for you when you apply to college. The ACT is all about timing, so practice taking each section with an egg timer set to five minutes less time than the time you are permitted.
Am I right in that the SAT/ACT can be conquered really just by a lot of studying? As soon as AP tests end, I plan to study until June when I’ll take them again. Then I’ll probably continue studying until October or so until I take them the final time.
That’s awesome, BraveSirZaphod! So are you going to Harvard? I’m not too attached to Harvard specifically - my top 5 schools are Harvard, Yale, UChicago, NYU, and Tulane (the last two are more backups). I’ve always wanted to go somewhere that’s not easy to get into, that will challenge me while I’m there, and that will look great when I look for jobs in the future. (I plan to major in art history / intl’ business and minor in Japanese.) I want to go to a college near the city. I’m open to new suggestions as well!
A couple of my main ECs - Varsity Scholastic Bowl, Varsity Forensics, Boy Scouts (I’m not gonna be able to get Eagle though, so idk how good that looks), French Club (officer positions each year of high school), piano/violin/clarinet lessons, and a community concert band that I play clarinet in.
@raspberrylicious I’m not completely decided, and I’m still really hoping for Yale, even though they deferred me in SCEA. If I get in there, it’ll be a really tough decision. Otherwise, I’d say I’ll be off to Cambridge! As for the tests, I would say that if you put in a good amount of practice, you can definitely see some gains. I’d suspect that the correlation between good grades and a good ACT score is more that good students will do well on both than any strong connection between the content of the tests and classes.
When it comes to colleges, two names you might want to look at are WashU in Saint Louis, and Tufts. WashU is just a fantastic place with fantastic people, and it’s quite selective. As for Tufts, I fell in love with it when I visited, and they have a very good international relations program. Your ECs look pretty good. You’ll definitely want to work on your test scores just a bit (even just one or two more points on the ACT would be fantastic), but I can almost guarantee that you’re going to get into some great colleges. Harvard probably won’t be one of them. That would be the case no matter what you did. But still, it might be, and even if it isn’t, you’re gonna wind up at a great place.
I don’t think it’s too far fetched. I mean, it’s not like anyone is expecting to get in.
You do you, and if they like you, they like you.
@raspberrylicious
“Am I right in that the SAT/ACT can be conquered really just by a lot of studying?”
Depends on what you mean by “conquered.”
The SAT, as originally designed, was a modified IQ test. After various revisions, it still correlates highly with IQ, although that correlation has been reduced over the years. It isn’t unusual for one’s SAT score to improve modestly over time, as one develops intellectually. I once read that without any real effort, SAT scores improve naturally, something like 25 - 40 points per year over time.
Whether or not studying for the SAT does much good is an open question. It probably helps to take it a couple of times, at least for many people, as some people need to take it once or twice to get sufficiently familiar with the format to do their best. As well, folks with relatively-lower scores are more likely to see measurable improvement versus folks who start out with higher scores. There is a test prep company that works with my sons’ high school that guarantees a 300 point improvement across the three subtests. But only for folks who start out with scores below 2000 or thereabouts. And the “guarantee” merely says that if you fail to achieve that result, you can re-take the class for free. I don’t believe that anyone really has a program that can regularly achieve those sorts of results.
It wouldn’t be terribly unusual if your score improved a hundred points or more over the course of a year, if you took the time to make sure that you’re thoroughly comfortable with the SAT.
The problem is that a 2040 is still low for Harvard. Not impossible, but definitely even more of an uphill battle than usual.
Notjoe, I think it’s possible for the OP to increase his score by even more. I took the SAT in the fall of my junior year with no preparation, and got a 1990. With studying, I got it up to 2200 by May (my second attempt). Everyone’s different, but I know others who have increased their scores even more. I just want to OP to know that he shouldn’t give up studying.
However, maybe you (the OP) should focus on the ACT. A 32 on the ACT translates to around a 2100 on the SAT, which is higher than your first attempt at the SAT. I disagree with gibby about the test being curriculum-based. Honestly, it is relatively similar to the SAT; it’s completely skill-based, as I’m sure you also noticed when you took it. I think that if you reach a 34, your test scores would be competitive with those of other ivy applicants’, but a 33 would also help.
Also, I noticed that your ECs are really good, but maybe you should try to get another leadership position- either now or next year. The most selective schools want to see that you’re really involved, and if you look at all the decision threads for the ivies, the most successful applicants have several leadership positions.
Good luck!
Seeing as you got a 32 on the ACT, the first time you too it, I would concentrate on the ACT. Definitely can be conquered with studying! First time, a 32 is good, no reason you can’t get a 35, all you need. Make sure you have leadership, volunteer, and EC stuff logged and recommenders for them. It also depends on where you are from. New england, or the middle of nowhere, which could help. Just remember, taking the SAT a lot, if you don’t score well, all those scores have to be sent to the Ivies, so concentrate on the ACT. And you need 2 SAT subject tests for Ivies.
@alpaca97,
“Notjoe, I think it’s possible for the OP to increase his score by even more.”
Sure, it’s possible. But unlikely.
I look at my younger son, from his PSAT as a first=semester sophomore to his SAT as an early second-semester junior superscore, he gained the equivalent of 290 points. In 15 months. It happens! But it is unusual. Most folks don’t increase their SAT scores by 290 points or better. From what I’ve read, most folks see their scores go up. But a significant minority of folks see their scores stay the same or even decline. Most increases are on the order of maybe around 40 points per year.
And I haven’t seen any good research that suggests a particular program of study to significantly improve scores. There does seem to be some benefit for many to take the test at least a second time, as the first one, for some folks, is like a “warm-up.”
I can say that at least the math portion of the SAT/ACT is 100% study-able. The big official SAT prep book has all of the math content that will be tested in a review section at the beginning of it. I could definitely get an 800 on the math if I studied a ton. The writing/reading sections are less studyable and more skill-based, I’d say. And, other than the science section and the organization of the tests, the SAT and ACT were almost identical. It’s definitely untrue that ACT is “more curriculum-based” at all.
Rasberrylicious: Go for it. Both my children improved 3 points on the ACT with some studying. Don’t get too hung up on Harvard (I think that will actually hurt you because your desperation will show in subtle ways and will be offputting), but don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t do it either. Best of luck to you.
My son didn’t care at all about the sophomore PSAT; 181. Took it again junior year; 223. Took some practice SATs and two tutoring sessions for the essay portion; 2360, first and only sitting. It might not be common, but it does happen, and it can be maturational.
@ZBD5421 Are you saying being from a rural area might improve my chances? I live on a farm in the middle of nowhere.
I want to weigh in about the tests. It is not true that the total ACT suggests a particular GPA range at all. In fact, only the first two sub-scores are related to GPA in a meaningful way. The other two add noise (detract from the validity of the total). The Science sub-score, for example only adds noise. If this student got high scores on the first two subtests and did poorly on the 2nd two, then the composit is depressed by only the invalid sub-tests. Colleges won’t assume that the high school had grade inflation at all. Why anyone would use the composite, given the findings that the 2nd two sub-scales are invalid, is beyond me. In terms of change with practice, the jury is NOT still out on that. Scores on both the SAT and ACT are subject to practice effects. They do go up with systematic study and practice. The two tests differ. Students who focus on course work tend to like hte ACTs. Those good at gaming tests usually do better on the SATs. In other words, a student who is a good test taker and good at avoiding being caught in “gotcha” traps will do better on the SATS. The content of the ACT is slightly more difficult but the questions are straight forward. So a student who tends to learn material in classes might find the ACT better-those that learn how to take each teacher’s test and who focus on nabbing good grades by working the test over mastering material will probably like the SATS better.
@Gibby 34+ is in the 99th percentile, and I’m pretty sure more than 1% of students have all As. A 32 is in the top 2%, and while it may be low for Harvard, I don’t think it is out of sync with an A average.
@raspberrylicious just practice from the College Board Blue Book. My first test was a 1940 and I have a 2270 superscore. You may spend your time more wisely practicing for the ACT, though, as you seem to be more comfortable with it.
@Cosmological: While a 32 ACT is indeed in the top 2% of all US students, a 32 ACT is also Harvard’s 25th percentile score, meaning that 75% of admitted students to Harvard had a 33 or HIGHER. And 25% of admitted students who submitted the ACT had a 35 or 36! See Common Data Set, C9 data points: http://oir.harvard.edu/files/huoir/files/harvard_cds_2013-14.pdf. To be admitted to Harvard with a 32 or below, a student often needs to have something extra special going on, such as being a recruited athlete, concert musician, Intel finalist, debate team champ etc. So, the OP needs to increase their ACT score several points to a 34 to be within Harvard’s mid-range.
I do agree with you though, and would like to amend my statement: If a non-hooked student has an A average (never had a B in their life) and is shooting for HYPSM, a 32 ACT is considered too low, and therefore out of sync with their GPA for those schools. For other colleges that wouldn’t be the case.