<p>I'm wondering what careers you can do with a BA in finance or accounting. What careers have a good starting salary and ones that will bring in the money after 5-10 yrs. </p>
<p>I'm starting to hear about I-Banking and it sounds pretty interesting bc I'm very good with numbers. So I'm wondering is it possible to go into this field with a bachelors in finance and still end up making a good salary. (I'm thinking 50,000 starting + some large bonuses, and later on making over 100,000)</p>
<p>Stats show it's going to be increasingly hard to enter really competitive fields with just a BA/BS. I banking is probably THE most competitive field af all because people are so attracted to the salaries. But you do get in the door with just a bachelors and go to grad school later. The trick is to be a very top student at a school that ibanks recruit from: ivies and top 10, top LACs, a few top states (UVA, UMich) or have a dad who's already an ibanker!</p>
<p>Suze --- you seem pretty knowledgable about ibanking so hopefully you can answer some more of my questions.....</p>
<p>Is it easier to just get your mba and then go into the field or go in with a BA/BS and eventually get your mba later?</p>
<p>Since I live in California I want to go to a UC..... But the problem is the UC's only have a business economics major (UCR, UCB have b-majors, but I hate those schools), so I'm wondering could a degree like that get you into ibanking.</p>
<p>Also, do you know of any careers that a BA/BS in accounting could lead to? I know you could become a cpa or something like that, but are there any better options?</p>
<p>UC, to get into a top MBA program, which you want to do if you can because it makes a huge difference in jobs available to you, you need to work 4-5 years after undergrad. My mom lives in CA and I love it there, but there are not a lot of schools that will get you access to ibanking. Cal can if you get into Haas and do well, Stanford will and then it drops off pretty dramatically and you see the occassional Pamona, UCLA or CMC grad. Maybe you want to be open to some E Coast schools if you really want ibanking. It really is hard to say how far we'll go in business with just a BA/BS. You can be a cpa if you pass the exam, but I don't think you'll make partner at a major firm without a grad degree. Bottom line, I'd plan for a grad degree of some sort. You can always do things like take the actuary exams if you're good with numbers, they do really well if you like probability thinking.</p>
<p>Is UVA a pretty good school to getting a job in i banking? </p>
<p>If one gets a summer internship as an undergraduate student, will that help them get a job with that bank or another bank?</p>
<p>I want to see how many posts we can go without talking about ibanking, everyone's favorite job. :)</p>
<p>Nope, first post: "Ibanking is the most competitive...."</p>
<p>very few bachelors programs will allow you to advance to high levels, levels where you are making huge compensations. There are exceptions such as entrepreneurs but in general it is very hard. One of the only bachelor programs that will allow you to be competitive is Wharton UG a very small % (I believe it's about 20%) of wharton ug alums end up getting an MBA because wharton's ug program is as thorough as most top MBA programs (this is the reason why many whartonites in banking get promoted to associate without having to go back for an MBA)...for example, many of the classes that I take are a mix of UGs and MBAs and the requirements for both programs are similar (You essentially learn the same). The MBA is good, however, as a networking degree.</p>
<p>
[quote]
One of the only bachelor programs that will allow you to be competitive is Wharton UG a very small % (I believe it's about 20%) of wharton ug alums end up getting an MBA because wharton's ug program is as thorough as most top MBA programs
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, the main reason why so few Wharton ug's don't go on to get their MBA is simple - most people in general don't go on to get their MBA's. MBA's really aren't all THAT common. The vast majority of college grads out there will never get MBA's (and, in fact, will never pursue any advanced degree at all). Personally, any group of which 20% will eventually get their MBA is a pretty remarkable group.</p>
<p>Speaking specifically of consulting and banking, which is why many Wharton UG's end up, the choice to get an MBA is not really always up to you. The truth is, most consulting and banking analysts, whether they came from Wharton or anywhere else, will not be offered a promotion to the associate level right from the analyst level. You can't just say "Well, I have a BS from Wharton, so I should automatically be promoted". If the firm decides not to promote you, then that's it. That's the end of the game. You then either have to get an MBA, or you have to leave the industry. </p>
<p>Speaking of leaving the industry, a lot of people choose to do just that, often times because they find out that they just don't like it.</p>
<p>sakky: I agree with most of what you're saying but from what I've heard from many of my alum friends at many ibanks the wharton UGs tend to get promoted to associates at a MUCH MUCH higher rate as compared with their counterparts from other universities. Probably the reason why wharton ug is the best represented school among MDs at GS and Morgan. </p>
<p>Obviously many decide to leave the industry (who would want to stay in banking longer than 3 years) and many don't cut it but it's pretty rare for someone from another school to be directly promoted to associate, normally the firm will pay for their MBA and then have them come back as associates but for wharton grads many firms will hire them knowing that they won't have to send them back for an MBA and will promote them directly. </p>
<p>Having a wharton b.s. obviously doesn't mean you're going to get promoted, that would be ridiculous. It seems that after the analyst position there are three options to follow: 1. you don't like the industry or can't cut it so you leave 2. get the firm to pay for your MBA and come back as an associate 3. get promoted directly. From the experiences that many of my friends have had either directly or seeing their coworkers it seems that the paths most followed by wharton ugs are paths #1 and #3 very few follow path #2. That's really all i was trying to get at by my above post.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I agree with most of what you're saying but from what I've heard from many of my alum friends
[/quote]
</p>
<p>alums of what school? how many alums? could this be a massive over-generalization (with homerism and myopic vision going on)? Seems to me that the best performers/producers would be the promoted ones, with little regard-as Sakky alluded to-for what school they attended for their undergrad... because at that point the employee has already been hired, and is doing their specific work.</p>
<p>The alums im talking about are from brown (1), yale (3), harvard (4), penn-wharton (5), penn-sas (2), williams (1), Wash U (1), and a friend from UMich (1)...most have told me the same thing saying that their wharton UG counterparts were better prepared which allowed them to completely outshine their coworkers (probably whartonite's overly competitive attitude helps here) and were even assigned better projects because of this. Btw out of my alum friends listed above, only 3 got promoted directly to associate (3 from wharton), the other wharton guy left banking because he just couldn't handle the stress,hours,lifestyle,etc. and the other guy was recruited for an amazing position at a hedge fund. The rest from the other schools either left for industry jobs or the firm paid for their mba and they are doing it right now.</p>
<p>"Seems to me that the best performers/producers would be the promoted ones..."</p>
<p>exactly and that is why wharton students tend to do better in their first years(prior to the time when others get their MBA), and its not because they are smarter, it's just because they are better prepared for banking (wharton is an ibanking factory...huntsman hall even looks like a factory..lol) and have a better knowledge of finance, acct, etc as compared to their counterparts who did a few weeks of training in these areas. After the non-wharton UGs go and do their MBA everyone is really on an even playing field as far as knowledge. </p>
<p>There is a reason why wharton UG is the best represented school at practically every firm on wall street...the largest component of every recruiting class for pretty much every firm comes from wharton. Few schools have 30,40,50 people going to a single firm.</p>
<p>no one gets an MBA to become an associate, hardly anyone stays with ONE company their entire career. so it makes sense for them to get an MBA and not return to whatever place they are working. Generally people are more willing to take more stressful jobs but allow more freedom to have to themselves (something that ibanking isn't known for).</p>
<p>
[quote]
sakky: I agree with most of what you're saying but from what I've heard from many of my alum friends at many ibanks the wharton UGs tend to get promoted to associates at a MUCH MUCH higher rate as compared with their counterparts from other universities. Probably the reason why wharton ug is the best represented school among MDs at GS and Morgan.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not saying that I know this is wrong, but it would be nice to see some data that supports the notion that Wharton UG's get promoted at a much higher rate compared to peer schools such as Harvard or MIT. Let's not also forget that Wharton UG is a pretty darn big school with lots of people in Ibanking. You're obviously going to get a lot of IB MD's if you just have lots of people period. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Having a wharton b.s. obviously doesn't mean you're going to get promoted, that would be ridiculous. It seems that after the analyst position there are three options to follow: 1. you don't like the industry or can't cut it so you leave 2. get the firm to pay for your MBA and come back as an associate 3. get promoted directly. From the experiences that many of my friends have had either directly or seeing their coworkers it seems that the paths most followed by wharton ugs are paths #1 and #3 very few follow path #2. That's really all i was trying to get at by my above post.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Actually, I think you forgot about option #4 - which is to get an MBA with the intent of going to another industry entirely. For example, I know a lot of former Ibankers who hate Ibanking, but get their MBA with the intent of trying something else (i.e. consulting).</p>
<p>very true on #4 (many make the switch from ibanking to consulting through MBA)...I too would like to see data other than just anecdotes from people I know in the industry but unfortunately no firm or organization publishes this and I agree that obviously wharton will have more b/c of the size of the class (450) with a majority interested in banking.</p>
<p>I think that if you look at the situation logically it's a decent assumption to believe that initially wharton students probably outperform their non-wharton counterparts as wharton pretty much trains its students for the profession...when you've taken advanced finance, accounting, etc. courses (derivatives, M&A, LBO/PE, fixed income, etc.), a broad range of other business subject, intense operations courses which teach you how to program excel (which as you know is the main tool used) through VBA, SQL, etc. things that most lib arts majors will not know (many CompSci/'Engineering people will know this but they tend to go for IT jobs) it seems likely that at in the beginning they will be better prepared...</p>
<p>sakky, looks like we were both thinking the same thing at the same time</p>
<p>Engineering is still a good field to go into. Within 3-4 years of graduating it is entirely possible to have a 80k+ job. It's also a relatively non-random field like IB. The talent gets noticed in other words, and is much less likely to be shrouded in 'noise'.</p>
<p>Let's not forget that there are 20 different concentrations in UG Wharton albeit the majority concentrates in finance. Those are the ones who go to IB. There are many who have no interest in IB. It would be interesting to see the data of those 20something% who go on to obtain MBA, how many had concentrated in finance. My guess is that the numbers would be low.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think that if you look at the situation logically it's a decent assumption to believe that initially wharton students probably outperform their non-wharton counterparts as wharton pretty much trains its students for the profession...when you've taken advanced finance, accounting, etc. courses (derivatives, M&A, LBO/PE, fixed income, etc.), a broad range of other business subject, intense operations courses which teach you how to program excel (which as you know is the main tool used) through VBA, SQL, etc. things that most lib arts majors will not know (many CompSci/'Engineering people will know this but they tend to go for IT jobs) it seems likely that at in the beginning they will be better prepared...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree that Wharton probably prepares you better in the beginning. However, I question just how valuable that really is.</p>
<p>To wit, the fact is, the Ibanks hire plenty of people who have had absolutely no preparation for Ibanking whatsoever. For example, I've seen Harvard English majors get hired into Ibanking. That seems to indicate that preparation is, frankly speaking, not that important. After all, if it really was that important, then the Ibanks wouldn't be hiring people like that. </p>
<p>I'll put it another way. I am quite sure that there are some Wharton BS grads who wanted to get an Ibanking job from, say, Goldman Sachs, but got rejected because GS chose to instead make an offer to somebody from HYPS who had a humanities degree. So either that means that GS is being stupid in choosing somebody who is less prepared, or that the Wharton preparation is of only limited value. </p>
<p>Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the preparation has no value. Far from it, in fact. What I am saying is that that preparation is valuable only up to a point.</p>
<p>
[quote]
To wit, the fact is, the Ibanks hire plenty of people who have had absolutely no preparation for Ibanking whatsoever. For example, I've seen Harvard English majors get hired into Ibanking. That seems to indicate that preparation is, frankly speaking, not that important. After all, if it really was that important, then the Ibanks wouldn't be hiring people like that.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yea, but there are many functions within investment banking. Not everyone is doing the same thing. That's why they all go to training sessions for 10 weeks. Some functions can be trained in 10 weeks, and others can't. They can't expect an English major to know fundamentals of excel, financial principles and financial modeling in 10 weeks. It also should be emphasized that some analyst's job is not that hard.......just requiring hours and hours of detail prep....... It's like what they say about Harvard.....the hardest part is getting in.</p>
<p>My son has just finished his 2 years at a major bank; he is invited to stay for a third year.....not a single humanities major he knows has been invited to stay.......those are the ones going on to MBA.</p>
<p>"Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the preparation has no value. Far from it, in fact. What I am saying is that that preparation is valuable only up to a point."</p>
<p>That is why I said that it only gives you an edge in the beginning compared to humanities majors but from talking to many of my classmates i've realized that MANY wharton UGs (aka a ton of the finance majors), being the pragmatic people they are, have had a plan practically since h.s. and that is why they choose to come to wharton as opposed to hyp,etc. The plan is:</p>
<ol>
<li>Get into wharton because it gives you a better chance of getting a banking job.</li>
<li>Get that banking job and work through the analyst years.</li>
<li>Get promoted straight to associate while your non-wharton counterparts go and "waste" 2 years at b-school. </li>
<li>While they are at b-school you finish 2 years as an associate. </li>
<li>Your non-wharton counterparts come back and are only 1st year associates while you are either a 3rd year associate or 1st year VP (I know a few guys like this - 1 at MorganStanley who is 26 and a VP)</li>
<li>stay until you retire at 40 lol...or leave banking for another industry (PE,VC, etc.) at whatever point you decide to leave. </li>
</ol>
<p>many people REALLY have this in mind when the apply to wharton and think it'll be a breeze as they really can't fathom the dedication that banking requires...the reality is that many get so sick of banking after analyst years that they just exit there and go to PE,VC,industry jobs,hedge funds...but since the offers they get are pretty decent in these industries many never go an get an MBA. Some do especially if they want to transfer to say consulting.</p>
<p>Although if you look at industry jobs you don't see many wharton CEOs/CFO as the majority of wharton grads stay in the finance world of pe, banking, hedge funds, etc. </p>
<p>"My son has just finished his 2 years at a major bank; he is invited to stay for a third year.....not a single humanities major he knows has been invited to stay.......those are the ones going on to MBA."</p>
<p>See he is working the plan :)</p>