<p>Sorry to seem like I'm busting your chops, but I think it's an issue that is best served by getting the facts as straight as possible. </p>
<p>And I know many people feel the same way you do--that assigning points based on race is an odd way to 'evaluate' someone. Particularly when you can't demonstrate that those points were arrived at in a non-arbitrary way. It's a legitimate position and one we share. But sort of making up facts and figures--geez, you take an decent, defendable position and just shoot yourself in the foot. </p>
<p>That voluntary study couldn't have been a very good measure of who was "an affirmative action admit." GPA and test scores were only a portion of the total points that determined admittance--a maximum of 92 out of 150 total possible. I wouldn't trust the conclusions of that study, and it doesn't address the issue of higher dropout among certain groups across the board.</p>
<p>Ward Connerly as president? Maybe, but unless they change the way this country is set up, a president can't reverse a Supreme Court decision.</p>
<p>Look -- a person whose parents went to U-M got 4 points, if you were lucky enough to go to a good school, you could get 10 points -- and if you're the son or daughter of a very wealthy or very famous person, you don't need any points and you can still go pretty much wherever you want. Personally, I like a diverse campus and I think a student body made up of people with different skin color, different religions, different nationalities, different opinions - is more interesting than a campus full of Northface-wearing, white kids from the suburbs. But it's pointless to argue about a system that isn't in effect anymore and that the Supreme Court has already ruled on.</p>
<p>weedit- you are the first person i've ever heard of picking Michigan on the basis of money :) Unless you're in state. Then I competley understand.</p>
<p>The fact that a thread about schools diverges to one about URMs.</p>
<p>Back on topic...</p>
<p>What are the top high schools in Michigan(Public only).</p>
<p>The list for me is:</p>
<p>1) International Academy
2) Troy High School
3) Okemos High School
4) Andover High School
5) Detroit Catholic Central
6) East Grand Rapids
7) Some Other Grand Rapids School
8) Novi High School
9) West Bloomfield High School
10) Groves High School</p>
<p>Why IA over Troy? I'm familiar with the recent newspaper publication loudly proclaiming it the best high school in the nation, but the standards are pretty ridiculous. Troy sends as many or more people to the most prestigious colleges, from UM all the way to Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, and quite a few others. Troy, in academic competitions, does better than IA (at least in quite a few I am familiar with) and in terms of sports, there's no comparison. Does IA's required IB programme really make it a better school than Troy?</p>
<p>Ummm UofMhopeful, CC is NOT a public school. My nephew went there and it is not what it's cracked up to be. It's slipped a lot in the last few years.</p>
<p>tetrahedron: you're just kind of talking without really knowing anything... that's always a good way to argue a point, i promise.</p>
<p>first of all, IA doesn't have sports so one of your arguments is totally void.</p>
<p>second of all, around 20% of the IA class of 05 are national merit... i dont think troy, or any other public high shcool can compete with that</p>
<p>third of all, IA has a 100% college matriculation rate... </p>
<p>fourth of all, the PR exposure by newsweek adds to prestige</p>
<p>fifth of all, the mandatory IB program results in every single applicant taking 5-6 IB/AP-equivalnet courses both junior and senior year.... as seen in the newsweek survey, no other school is even close to matching that. while not necessarily creating better students, this program ensures a certain level of quality of applying students, while gangsters from troy with 2 honors classes senior year apply to UM as well</p>
<p>if you want i can keep going, but i think you get the point</p>
<p>i would also be very curious to find out about the academic comparisons where troy comes out on top</p>
<p>Sure, Ill keep arguing Radon. Please avoid calling some of my friends gangsters though.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Really? No sports at all? (When I investigated about IA in my 8th grade year, I found that they do.) Someone who goes there clarify this for me. If indeed there are no sports, I find this a weakness. Sports are a part of high school and thus Troy has an advantage. However, this is not crucial - its at the end of my list.</p></li>
<li><p>Of course we cannot, because we have a class size of over 5 times your own. Your points is meaningless - there are similar amounts of NMS semifinalists at Troy and IA. I could create my own school with just me and say I have 100% NMS population, and thus, no school in existance could compete with me.</p></li>
<li><p>So? Again, you have a much smaller class, but we also have something like 95% college matriculation. Those who do not go to college pursue careers that are already available to them - such as take over a family business.</p></li>
<li><p>This point is laughable. I'm trying to point out which school is better, not which is most prestigious. Do you always choose schools based on prestige? Its not a good idea.</p></li>
<li><p>Forcing students to go through with an inflexible program does not constitute better education. It in no way ensures more qualified applicants - I can go through all the IB classes and get Ds in all of them, but it does not make me a better applicant. If you want us to believe you, give us some information on the RESULTS of the IB test at IA. Thats really what counts - not how many people take it, but how they do. Thats how we tell the quality of the school. And I can tell you here at Troy, we have classes of a good 80-100 students all getting 5s on the AP exams on a particular subject. Thats what we pride ourselves on - not on forcing every student in the school to take an exam.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I also feel insulted at your whole "gangsters" comment. There are many kids at Troy who haven't had good academic results because of their life circumstances. They have little choice but to take those two classes senior year. Why shouldn't they apply to UM? </p>
<p>What I mentioned earlier are academic competitions. While in no way do they paint a complete picture of Troy, they provide insight into the level of talent that we have here. Ill mention a few subjects - Math - Top in the state, MML, last three years. Top in state, AMC team score - 02,03. 8 USAMO qualifications (IA has ... 0?) Repeated wins at UM's Math Field Day. I could go on... Biology - two years ago, 5th place student in USABO. 10 qualifiers to the second round for the last three years. Physics - 6 qualifiers to semifinalist level. Chemistry - Last year, places 1 and 2 in the regional competition. 2 qualifiers to national competition. 1 10th place finish in the USACHO (invited to the training camp.) Science Olympiad - (I know IA has a team - have they ever qualified for the state competition?) 1st place regionals, last three years, 11th,4th,2nd place finish at States, last three years, 1 national qualification. Quiz Bowl - 2nd place at State Championships last year.</p>
<p>Top 10 public high schools in Michigan, random order:
International Academy, Lahser, Andover, West Bloomfield, North Farmington, Ann Arbor Pioneer, Ann Arbor Huron, Jenison, Okemos, Groves</p>
<p>See my post above on why you're missing at least one school in your top 10, WaterPoloBear. I hope you don't seriously believe that Pioneer, Lahser, or Groves are better than Troy in any respect.</p>
<p>I'm a CC senior this year, how can you say that CC is slipping? The academics have gotten better over the past few years. This year, we have 18 national merit semi-finalists compared to the single digits that most other public schools get... CC was also one of the schools that received 6 points in the point system Michigan used to have.</p>
<p>LTW: Operative word being "used". Also, many public schools in MI have NMS semifinalists in the double digits. And CC is not a public school. What you are doing is taking the top half (or less) of a public school and then comparing them.</p>
<p>boysmom: I used the word "used" to stress the fact that the University of Michigan is not using the old point value system anymore. The word "used" was not directed towards CC. CC also had the most national merit scholars my freshman year at CC with 21 in 2001. CC also received the governor's award back in 2001 which is awarded to the school with the most national merit semi-finalists.</p>
<p>One question. How am i taking the top half (or less) of a public and then comparing them?</p>
<p>The reason why i made the post was to prove that CC wasn't slipping. Not to prove that CC is the "best" school in the state of Michigan.</p>
<p>I'm not trying to put down CC in any way. Nor am I trying to say it's not a good school. I am merely pointing out the flaws in your argument.</p>
<p>"This year, we have 18 national merit semi-finalists compared to the single digits that most other public schools get". That is simply false. Plenty of public schools get double digit NM Semifinalists.</p>
<p>"How am i taking the top half (or less) of a public and then comparing them?" Because CC is a private school and thus can take only the students it wants. Whereas a public school must admit any student that lives in its district (and with schools of choice, some that don't).</p>
<p>It's understandable that you want to argue for your own school of course, but don't call Radon's defenses laughable because he's doing the same. Besides, you said "4. This point is laughable. I'm trying to point out which school is better, not which is most prestigious. Do you always choose schools based on prestige? Its not a good idea." but then cite matriculation of THS students to the ivies and their equivalents. Isn't that about prestige as well? Adding to the school name and glory?</p>
<p>I have friends who go to both schools, admittedly more who go to the IA, but from what I've seen, mediocre students who come to the IA emerge as stronger students, whereas the strong students at THS were strong from personal drive, which had little to do with the school. </p>
<p>The IA has a higher diploma acquisition rate than the world average... and much much higher numbers of 7s on certain tests, which isn't easy considering all the requirements and the fact that one must study and take tests in all subjects instead of simply concentrating in strengths and taking tests in those. I took AP tests last year for some college credit. It was quite amusing that after learning half the IB material on the subjects in class and without learning them on my own, I was able to get 5s on them. IB is much more rigorous. </p>
<p>International Academy students choose to pursue the IB diploma. It's worthwhile, in the end.</p>
<p>Reading about 20% of a class being National Merit is disgusting. At my school (Saginaw, MI - the township actually), less than 1% (3 students) of this year's class are Semifinalists. Last year, we had zero students. The average for us I believe is about 2 students a year.</p>