I know plenty of people who got free MBAs from top schools including HWSC. Just had to come back to employer and stay for a few yrs. If you’re the right kid future employers will pay off your loan balance. Of course we’re talking top students (who have all gone on to do pretty neat stuff (CEO, CFO, Chairman, etc.) One of my brothers got a full ride for his PhD at UT Texas. My other bro had to pay full for HBS but his future employer wound up paying off his loans.
These are likely the exception not the rule, but you never know. Get employers in a bidding war.
D will be getting her MBA for mostly free (all tuition paid, she’ll have to pay fees and books) due to a Fellowship she was awarded at the school she will attend. It is a very good program though not as highly ranked as another program which admitted her. As she is not planning to go into investment banking, etc. she choose the better financial deal.
There is money out there for MBA, JD, MD, but very few will get it, so almost everyone is paying, and that saying is just not accurate. Very few employers pay for a full-time MBA anymore. An MBA now costs over $200k at the top schools.
When my non-STEM language skilled kid began his college application journey, his realistic choices were UCLA/Berkeley, several other UCs and one or two Honors Colleges at OOS schools with great scholarships. I began to do more serious research into top Honors Colleges when he surprisingly made NMSF in CA. I really wanted him to seriously consider Univ of South Carolina Honors pre International Business major and actually wanted him to go there over Berkeley or UCLA but then he got into his only reach school he applied early: Stanford. Stanford wasn’t some dream school for him since he interned at a student newspaper there during high school freshmen summer and was sort of familiar with the school. Although we could afford full tuition at Stanford, I set my kid down and had a serious money talk on what he could do with the money saved by going to Honors College on merit scholarships. I actually found it hilarious that his NMF status coupled with pretty high GPA of 3.9 would allow him to attend college for almost free. And who doesn’t like free college? At the end, he made the decision that he would like to see what he can do with being able to speak four languages with a Stanford degree in a major he likes. He is the kind of person who rather be among kids who are smarter or just as smart as him so he could learn from them. He does not mind not excelling GPA wise as long as he can learn different things from different people because frankly he was not even an academic super star in his large public high school although he was in top 5%. By the way, I found it surprising that he was the only student who was accepted into one of HYPSM colleges out of the entire class even though there were kids who had better GPAs and test scores.
Anyway, while our family was having some intense discussions on pros and cons, the decision was somewhat made for us when a study abroad scholarship he applied for offered him a chance to study Mandarin for one year in China (all expenses covered) during a gap year. Stanford was the only school which allowed him to reserve a spot after the gap year; UCs and Honors Colleges made him apply again and could not “hold” his scholarships.
So while I definitely see pros of saving money and perhaps increasing the chance he might graduate with higher GPA and would have been proud of seeing my kid go to Honors Colleges, I can’t say his decision was wrong. I feel we made the best decision we could have at the time, which was in relation to our financial situation, our kid’s personality and attitude and what he wanted.
This isn’t quite the question OP asked, but my daughter was admitted to two schools with similar acceptance rates, and similar rankings in various publications. However, at one, her academic stats were not in the top 25th, and at the other, her stats were.
She ended up at the one where her stats are higher, and I think it’s been a great decision. She is doing great academically, and socially too. I think she unexpectedly likes making Dean’s List and being perceived of by her friends as being “smart”, though at her school, they are all “smart” and motivated. I am pretty sure if she had ended up at the other school, she might have had more middling grades and would have possibly even felt a little intimidated by some of the students. I agree with Malcolm Gladwell’s theory.
I’m now in a dream PhD program so I guess it worked out. Oh yeah and met my husband at the safety so there is that too
ETA: before getting into my fully and generously funded PhD program, I had a partial scholarship to get my mph in a top program. Funding for MPH degrees is very rare. I had a full tuition scholarship for my MPH at Columbia but the cost of living made it cost about the same ad the partially funded program I chose.
Our son got into a semi-prestigious program (Park School of Communication at Ithaca), but it’s not affordable with the aid they offered. No way it’s worth 15K a year more than the CTCL school that is his safety. I had a similar situation when I applied to MLS programs. I was accepted at UNC-CH, but they didn’t offer an assistantship or even in state tuition. I took the in state option, and finished with very little debt. Years later my sister chose UNC and was paying off loans for a long time.
The choice TOTALLY depends on your own child and your family’s situation. And of course, the specifics of the schools that your child is considering. Some schools have a more competitive environment and some are more laid back (e.g., Cornell versus Brown). Some have lots of options for all the students and most schools embrace and support ALL the students that accept their offers.
While the benefit of an “elite” school can certainly be over-stated, the benefits can also be unduly minimized. Imagine your child being surrounded by equally motivated, high achieving, interested students all eager to learn. Depending on the specific “safety” schools, this might not be the environment.
Economists have gone to great length to estimate the “returns” to an “elite” education – a tough task because one must somehow imagine how those students who are accepted to elite school would fare at a non-elite institution, an outcome that is not observed if they do indeed attend the elite school. Nonetheless, there is some literature on this and there is indeed evidence that the elite schools are helpful, particularly if graduate school is on the horizon. The basic advice is that one chooses the non-elite school, then it is important to perform at the expected level; that is, if the student is indeed a big fish in a small pond, then get the grades to prove it. Straight A grades at a flagship state university will turn a lot of heads on the job market and in graduate school applications. Still, the return to that elite school degree is not nothing, as many on CC proclaim. There is a bit of an anti-elite school bias on these pages. In my view, the whole subject is far more nuanced. Regarding the college selection, I believe what the great ones say: “It means what it means, no more, no less.” But not nothing either.
One of my kids desperately wants to be in the middle of the pack in a very challenging intellectual environment. My other child would prefer that too, but he wants to go to med school, so must consider potential GPA and debt factors in a slightly different way. But I know they really want to be among students of their level who love to learn, especially about the things they love to learn too. That’s what they have always wanted in school, although only in high school have they experienced a taste of it. I think they have the impression that the highest prestige schools are the only ones where they will find what they want. I tend to think they must be wrong, but I can’t refute them, because I did not go to a high-prestige college, and I have never in my life had that kind of experience.
My D wanted to be in a challenging intellectual environment, yet at the same time has lacked confidence despite being successful… and described herself as having “imposter syndrome” …which I never heard of until she told me. We had to be very very careful when choosing schools… it was not easy. She wanted a school where she would be with academic peers… yet at the same time she needed a school where her confidence could thrive and improve… not get diminished due to her own fears and anxieties.
There are many reasons why people choose their schools… it really depends on the individual.
Completely agree with post # 70. To simplify it, why not just send your kid to the best school you can afford? Everyone defines “best” differently. Some care about rankings, others specific programs or feel. Whatever it is, fine. There does appear to be an anti elite school tone from many posters. I agree with them in as much as the importance of not going in to significant debt (even that is quite personal - what’s significant. Is 50k too much if your kid will get a starting salary of 75k in engineering or finance?) However, many (actually most) seem to take the view that if state U can get the job done, no need to and foolish to go to “fancy private school”. Full disclosure, S attends one of those highly selective privates. For what was important to him (and us), there’s no comparison. Two completely different animals. I think about it completely opposite. If you can afford it, why wouldn’t you send your kid to the best possible scenario for them? What’s more important than that?
For some, that will be state U, for others that will be private full pay. It’s not a competition. It’s about doing the best you can for your kids.
@twogirls I think there are a lot of students like our girls out there. The good news is that all those fears about “finding peers” at “lesser” (not HYSPMC) schools are groundless. I’ve always said that D didn’t want to be a “big fish in a little pond” or a “little fish in a big pond”; she just wants to be part of a great “school of fish”. She has found that at a school where her stats are significantly above average (a “low match” if not a safety given overall admission rates). Her classmates are serious students, she has had great opportunities, and she has managed to find a balance between challenge and success that has led to a ton of growth over the past three years.
“If [they’re] going to medical school, go to a college where they can inflate their GPA…” is absurd.
How many pre-med preference high school applicants end up in medical school? Shoot, how many wannabe lawyers end up matriculating to law school? Students who wash out or change course are stuck with a less marketable degree and the limited network.
Anyone ever applied to medical school from a lower tier or budget-strained school? You’re basically on your own. Night and day to the support and resources you receive at a SLAC, Ivy or high-caliber feeder like WashU.
Never discount an atmosphere’s impact on pushing your child to stick to their course and reach new heights. The overall culture of WashU is mature, students are fixated on long-term goals. 20-25% of WashU students end up applying to med school. In contrast to lower tier schools where partying and living in the moment rule, and maybe 1-3% of the school will ever fill out a med school app.
^^^ great points. Can you do it from lesser schools? Sure. But why wouldn’t you do it from the most competitive schools if you have a chance? Is the workload going to be hard? Yes. But so what? It’ll be way harder when you actually get in med school or top MBA or PhD engineering, or … If you can’t get the grades in undergrad, how are you going to excel in graduate school? Not talking about getting by, but rather excelling.
We need to remember we are comparing a reach vs a safety school and as other have mentioned these schools might not be that far apart in the big picture (not the same as comparing Harvard with a community college). I think there is a lot to be said for the “where you go is not who you’ll be” line of thought. Having the background that got you into the reach school, probably means that you will work hard and succeed in the safety school.
Some kids do well in a pressure cooker environment and others don’t. Some kids have burn out after 4 years in a competitive high school. Some kids are tired of the gaming for grades and resume building they just lived through in high school.
I don’t think going to the most competitive school you get into is a rule anybody should follow. (even if finances are not an issue) You should go to the school that is the best fit and where you will be happy and therefore prosper. You should go somewhere where you will find people like you (your tribe). You should go somewhere where they have the things that you feel you need (be it location, a special program, etc.)
