My daughter got into NYU Tisch, but instead chose an HBCU. It was a great decision. She had an internship every summer. She is thriving with recruiters contacting her on a regular basis with job opportunities.
It is not just us who try to decide if sending them to the best school they got into and we can afford makes sense. My DD puts enormous pressure on herself trying to justify for herself attending school she does. From the distance I am absolutely amazed with her achievements, experiences and multiple internships just after 3 semesters. She doesn’t see it this way because at her school, that is a norm and some of her peers achieved much more. You know your child best and can tell if they can handle this pressure. Do be honest, this scared me most of the time but I know that being in a less challenging environment will make her unhappy as well. There’s no right or wrong answers. You just make a decision and hope that it is a right one.
My son says the same things as Ballerinas DD, which isn’t so surprising since they attend the same school. Still, he had other choices that would have been easier I certainly didn’t push
So much of it depends on each student’s personality. Some derive a lot of motivation from challenge, and enjoy being in a competitive environment – others would find that demoralizing. On the flip side, some students are self-motivated and independent to the extent that they will actively seek out opportunites in a less competitive environment, and really do end up doing best in the big fish role – and others are uncomfortable standing out, more go-with-the-flow types who may do quite well in a less-competitive environment, but also will not derive particular benefit from that choice.
I do think that the students who will do best in the more competitive environment also are more likely to be self-driven and self-motivated – so probably rarely a good idea for parents to push, lest they end up with a kid who is anxious and overwhelmed. Emotional well-being at college is every bit as important as academic success
Some elite top ranked schools may have an issue with over the top competition or grade deflation, others may not. Some safety schools may provide an easier time for some students to achieve higher grades, others may not.
As @kiddie and @calmom posted, many students may not thrive in a pressure cooker after going through four years at a competitive high school. Probably depends some on the student and each must be taken on a case by case basis. College should be a good balance of fun and work (imho), but not always easy to find.
My son chose the third highest-ranked university he got into. Of the other two, one was much cheaper, but he would have faced a very competitive atmosphere and impacted classes, and the other cost about the same as the one he chose, but was also a stressful environment. My son spent time at all three universities and felt that the students at the two highest-ranked universities looked miserable. He spent high school studying and missing many social opportunities and did not want that in college, so he chose number three and has not regretted it. It has provided the right balance for him.
I wonder how many people who got into one of HYPSM (and several others) and a public school would choose to send their kids to a public school if the financial cost was the same, i.e., it cost exactly the same amount? I think according to the Princeton Review, they asked both parents and students that same question, and both the parents and students chose Stanford. [That’s what I remember reading, but someone can correct me if I am wrong.] Therefore, there is no right or wrong decision; it really depends on your financial situation, how many kids you have and what your kid wants and the fit.
It’s also about fit. My son had a roommate who transferred in from Princeton after one semester.
@websensation, hard to turn down Stanford!
If money was no object (e.g., costs were the same net of fin aid or parents could afford anything), my advice would be to go to the school that would help the kid succeed in the world. Defining success is complex – I’ve thought about this a lot. And it is tricky because the path you take and what you experience often changes the way you define success.
As I said before, it really depends upon the field. I don’t think the Ivies are clear winners in terms of engineering for example. UIUC is undoubtedly stronger than most at CS (as probability is Waterloo) but Stanford is probably a winner. If I were confident I were going to med school (which is probably a bad assumption because a) I might discover I’m not interested or b) I might not do well enough to get in), I’d go to the school with lesser competition (probably the state). In many fields, Stanford or HYPSM give students great option value that the state schools mostly don’t (but again UT within Texas may be better than Brown so it is complicated).
@shawbridge, I agree that some universities may have regional advantages for employment opportunities. Georgia Tech would be very strong in Atlanta, for example, probably more so than many higher ranked schools and some Ivies. But, would a Ga Tech student be on a par with MIT grad? It ultimately should come down to the student and his/her accomplishments, how well she interviews, and other factors. Stanford has a well established relationship with many companies and recruiters in the Silicon Valley, San Francisco… so this could be an advantage over some Ivy grads, although I think it would (and should in an ideal world) come down to the individual.
@stardustmom, do you know why your son’s roommate left Princeton? Too intense or stressful? By the way, I admire your son’s ability to consider quality of life and the feel and fit of the student body of the three universities he narrowed it down to. Smart kid!
@Nomorelurker According to my son, his roommate was an excellent student, coming from a well-regarded West Coast public school. He was studious and did not fit in well socially at Princeton, and felt more comfortable returning to the more-familiar West Coast. Son said he was a great roommate, replacing one who was rude and did not get along with others in the suite.
Regarding my son, I think he made the right choice. As it was, he was feeling burned-out by his course load and was on the fence about going for his MS. Recently he decided he would continued, which will allow him to specialize in his field. I am not so sure he would have chosen to continue if he had ended up at one of his other choices.
@stardustmom, Social life is definitely a factor to consider when looking at the overall fit of a college, whether it be a large state school, or a smaller private university. Also, the issue of burnout may impact students more and more, as an ever increasing applicant pool tries for a limited number of admission spots at top schools. Glad your son found a balance which allowed him to pursue his short and long term goals.
@Nomorelurker, in principle, it should always come to the individual but there are a few of reasons why it would not. First, there might be easier pathways for the GA Tech student to find a job in the Atlanta area than for an MIT student. Internships set up, etc. Similar thing happens for Northeastern students in Boston. Second, alums might know the GA Tech curriculum better or just feel good about hiring other alums. Third, and possibly operating in the other direction, hiring managers may use college admission as a shorthand measure for intellectual strength or capability, which might favor giving MIT students a leg up for some purposes.
Stanford is a critical part of the Silicon Valley ecosystem (indeed, the Valley is there because of Stanford). I don’t think any school is a close second to Stanford for high tech entrepreneurialism. Major VCs come to campus to hear demo days, which are presentations by students about companies that they would like to get funding for (and these are serious partners for major VC firms). They invite kids with interesting ideas back to the office to talk (easy to do when your office is on the ring road around the campus). Courses help students develop business ideas. Other courses actually work on preparation and presentation for these kinds of proposals. I went on a hike today with a Harvard prof friend involved in this and Harvard has been working on tightening the link between engineering, business school, public policy, med school, etc., and it is much better than it was (the ethos “every tub on its own bottom”), but it is slow work and Harvard is still well behind Stanford in terms of this kind of integration. For CS jobs generally, I think the route from Stanford to jobs the Valley and SF is very short but I don’t know if this route is better than for UIUC, Berkeley, CMU, etc. and, if better, by how much. I suspect that it is better than for the Ivies, but that is hunch and not-evidenced based…
In many fields, like CS, school name won’t matter if you have nothing to show for your time there. Prospective employers want to see what work you’ve done through internships, projects and campus jobs. For CS most employers will also require applicants to take a coding test to measure skill level.
You can build a strong resume at many schools outside of the typical CC favorites in CS and engineering. Also, many areas outside of SF and Silicon Valley, like LA and OC, have starts up and VC money pouring in. Finding a job in any engineering field is just not as dependent on the university you graduated from as it is with some fields like finance.
@stardustmom, completely agree. Finding an engineering job is different than having the money/connections to get a law firm to do the work for you on the come, raise money, etc. For the latter, the Stanford ecosystem is extraordinary. For the former, what I wasn’t sure about was whether Stanford offered a particularly good route to the big tech companies that are located in Silicon Valley or SF. I infer that you are saying it does not.
@stardustmom in general that is correct but you are still failing to acknowledge the Stanford pedigree in engineering. Friend of mines son graduated in MechE from Stanford with a 3.5+ GPA and was hired by a top national lab, another friend of my DD graduated from a state flagship with a MEchE with a 3.5+ GPA and had a hard time finding a job. There is a difference, and the Stanford moniker caries a lot of weight straight out of college. Now if we were talking Harvard or Yale; they are not known for engineering and therefore not recruited as hard. All those recruiters are down the street at MIT.
@STF4717 Your question is three weeks old, but I’m going to answer. My son was accepted everywhere he applied. His first choice was Tulane, net tuition of about $20,000 after scholarship. Next was Georgia, net tuition of about $9,000, then Alabama tuition free, then Ole Miss almost full ride. He (and we) chose Alabama, since he would be able to get two years of grad school tuition free. We just couldn’t see shelling out a lot of extra tuition for Georgia or Tulane, although both are arguably “better” schools. Tulane has a really weird Accounting program which we didn’t like that much, so he would have been working around it.
Technically we could have sent him anywhere, but money is always tight around our house. He’s been very happy at Alabama, put on first-year counsel, active in fraternity, and actually doing some volunteer work. He’s happy with the choice and so are we.
@EarlVanDorn thanks - I appreciate that. Alabama is a solid choice and it makes tons of sense to save that $ for grad school!
I think kiddo is definitely turning down the reach school. Re-visiting the safeties helped - I think the bottom line is, the school is what you make of it- name brand be darned!
Knowing one student who found a job and one student who did not is not good evidence of much of anything, certainly not the power of Stanford “pedigree in engineering”… This is especially true when you don’t list anything about those students beyond some information about the school name (Stanford and an unnamed public) and both passing a GPA threshold. Suppose Stardustmom’s comments are accurate, and employers want to see internships, projects, campus jobs, doing well on coding tests during interviews, etc. Those are all possible reasons why a particular student at one school might have trouble having a job and a particular student another might not – one student excels in these areas, and the other does not. There are many other contributing factors. For example, location can be quite influential. The unnamed flagship likely has the edge in employment near the flagship and related recruiting. Stanford likely has the edge in employment near Silicon Valley and related recruiting.
I was an engineering co-terrm at Stanford. There were a few career fairs on campus each year, including an engineering specific career fair. The number of employers was smaller than you’d find at typical career fair events at big flagships, but still substantial. My job search primarily involved asking questions about different companies and handing out resumes at such events. During spring break of my final year, I went on many interviews for engineering positions. I interviewed at a few big companies that some students find especially desirable like Microsoft; I interviewed at some smaller start-up type companies, some of which no longer exist and one of which has blown up and is well known; and I interviewed at a lot of companies that fell somewhere in between. One thing all 3 groups had in common was during every interview day in which I met multiple other applicants, most of those I met were not from “pedigree engineering” schools. Almost without exception, the interviews emphasized solving technical problems, and answering related technical questions, which I expect played a key role in hiring decisions. There were various other interview and hiring factors as well. Sometimes there appeared to be an emphasis on fitting in and getting along with the group you’d be working with or the groups of others who were interviewing. Some interviewers followed a more structured approach, and some appeared to focus on whatever unique criteria they felt was important. At first, I was in the group that had trouble finding a job. I had a great resume and had no problem getting interviews, but was not getting job offers. It was not until I started learning from my mistakes and improving my interview skills that the job offers came. This included spending more time thinking about and researching the company, displaying more enthusiasm, and so on.