<p>Most accepted students at selective colleges do not submit class rank. It most highly selective private schools only ~1/3 of the freshman class submitted class rank. The CDS for Princeton indicates that 26% of the freshman class submitted class rank. It’s 31% for Yale and 37% for Stanford… The glaring exception is Harvard with 60%. This likely relates to Harvard indicating that they do not consider class rank in admissions decisions. In surveys, colleges generally give class rank significantly less importance than other stats. Each year, the NACAC does a survey asking colleges what factors are “considerable importance” to admissions decisions. The highest rated factor in the 2011 survey (the most recent one I found) was grades in college prep classes with 84% indicating considerable importance. Curriculum strength, test scores, and GPA were also all above 50%. However, class rank was only at 18.8%, below essays, demonstrated interest, and recommendations.</p>
<p>I highly doubt that the colleges that do give high importance to class rank are concerned with the degree of detail emphasized in this thread, such as believing a slight difference in class rank will have a notable impact on chance of acceptance or the post above, in which a coworker mentioned a Stanford rejection was caused by one particular class not being weighted. If you look at the Stanford RD thread, the accepted posters have a lower median class rank than the rejected posters… not just a slight difference, quite significantly lower. I was accepted to Stanford without even being in the top 10% of my HS class, and I felt the biggest factor in my acceptance was quite similar reason the coworker gave for his son’s rejection in the post above – taking advanced courses at a nearby universities (I took classes beyond what was available at my HS, rather than than duplicating an available AP class). </p>
<p>Instead I expect most holistic admissions colleges primarily use class rank to get a better idea of how difficult is to get top grades in your HS. Some high schools give out A’s like candy. I’ve heard of some schools where more than 10% of the class graduated with a perfect UW 4.0. And at the other extreme, some high schools only give A’s to only a small portion of students, so it’s almost unheard of to finish with a UW 4.0. A 3.6 GPA looks a lot better if you are in the top 3% than if you are in the top 30%. However, HSs in the latter easy A group generally do not submit class rank, for obvious reasons.</p>
<p>^ Just saying: rank doesn’t tell much about a high school’s competitiveness. If a kid makes it to top 3% with a 3.66, it doesn’t always mean there’s grade deflation and you’ve found a worthy gem. It can be an oopsie moment. It could be a non-competitive hs and instead of knocking it out of the park, he got a few non-A grades in courses that matter- and only a few peers bested him. Have to look at the transcript, Lors and check various data points that indicate the school context.</p>
<p>A lot of people believe an elite college is a reward for how you succeeded in your hs. Ime, for the elites, it’s more about the potential you exhibit to succeed at that college. I hope OP’s kid has plenty going for him or her.</p>
<p>I do not disagree. When combined with various other factors, class rank can be used to better estimate relative grading between different HSs. Obviously one can give countless examples where using class rank alone will lead to incorrect conclusions.</p>
<p>Concerning grade inflation - it is all about the incentives.</p>
<p>Fifteen or so years ago, Kentucky fundamentally changed its state-wide education model. Included in the changes was scholarship money for every student based on their HS GPA - the higher the grades, the more money the student received for college. Within two years, the average GPA across the state rose from 3.2 to 3.5 - schools had a tangible reason to inflate grades as well as political cover for doing so.</p>
<p>The hilarious thing is that politicians and education bureaucrats took credit for the improvement as if students were suddenly studying much harder.</p>
<p>This was in addition to the normal pressure that aggressive parents have always placed on teachers and administrators to raise grades for their child - no one ever complains that their grade is too low.</p>
<p>colorado_mom: You mentioned that your coworker’s son was not admitted to Stanford and the dad thought that rank was an/the issue. I agree that Stanford is a tough admit for all–however, it is not a tough admit in the same way that HYP are, in our part of the country. In terms of the recent admissions outcomes, HYP seem more predictable. I think you can see some differences in the admit/deny patterns at S vs. other top schools if you look at the results thread on this forum. The Stanford philosophy is just a bit different–which is all to say that I am not sure that rank was the issue, as opposed to their admissions preferences.</p>
<p>On the other hand, at the local high school, we had a student who was not admitted to Princeton–somewhat unexpectedly to the GC. The GC called Princeton and from the discussion deduced that the student’s two grades of A- in 10th grade literature (all other grades were A’s) had kept the student out. I think that the reason for this was that the two grades of A- put the student very close to the borderline of the top 10% and perhaps even out of it, at the local school. Princeton admissions apparently had not picked up on the fact that the local school used no course weighting to determine rank–it’s just the raw unweighted GPA that counts. The next year (QMP’s freshman year at the high school) ranks were gone.</p>
<p>Though some of the select privateprep schools do not rank, the info the schools give in their profiles makes it pretty danged easy to place any student in a given quintile. The kids usually well know which quintile they are in.</p>
<p>I have a friend, an African-American, whose family moved to a then-all-white Texas suburb when he was entering 9th grade. He and his sister, and later a younger brother, were the only Black students at the high school. His sister would have been valedictorian on the basis of her grades, but the school district alertly adopted the “four year” rule when she was ranked #1 in 11th grade. That rule, of course, didn’t work to keep my friend from being ranked #1 in his class, so before his senior year the school district decided to include standardized test scores in the valedictorian formula. That got him into second place.</p>
<p>My friend didn’t care so much. He was friends with the kid who got to be the valedictorian, and at the time it meant money towards UT tuition, whereas my friend was on his way to Harvard.</p>
<p>My kids’ school diddled with its formula all the time, trying (without success) to find the perfect way to communicate what it valued and how it wanted ambitious students to behave. Every adjustment caused some dislocation among the kids, with the losers screaming bloody murder and the winners confident that justice had at last been done. My son, who had a single-digit rank, was knocked down a few notches when a 9th grade one-quarter studio art class in which he had gotten a B (his only grade below A- in his first two years of high school) suddenly became a factor in ranking, when it hadn’t been taken into account before. He had gotten a B in the class because someone had stolen the teacher’s grade book, and the teacher had no other record of the grades on people’s assignments, so he gave everyone Cs, and then raised the grade to B if a parent called to complain. (That was the worst part. I would never, ever have considered questioning a high school teacher about the grade he had given my child. As far as I was concerned, it was the child’s responsibility to work that out. But it became clear that the wanted parents to call him.)</p>
<p>Our scholar-athlete took classes early and more rigor than classmates.
It meant Bs in high school classes during middle school than peers As in middle school, and affected rank freshman yr and soph yr.
By Jr yr K1 had more APs than peers and by Sr yr graduated with more APs. Finished in top 10% of course,
however for a school that doesn’t rank it worked because K1 had a very rigorous transcript and was admitted to HYP (few are admitted)</p>
<p>It is absolutely risky–as a peer took rigor in expected sequence and with the added yr of maturity seemed to have an easier time of it…</p>
<p>I think scholar-athletes are part of this equation too. Our district had a pass/fail option for middle-schoolers who weren’t as confident. The P/F would be on the high school transcript but wouldn’t affect GPA. However, when the NCAA looked at transcripts, they marked P/F as a D in their files. It really messed some families up and the NCAA was not at all interested in changing its rules to accommodate 8th grade Algebra. It’s impossible to make everyone happy…</p>
<p>I’ve enjoyed reading this thread as our high school does not weight and often has Val/Sal who do not take a rigorous schedule. S is right on the border of top 5% and when he graduates he will have taken all APs offered along with 4 dual enrollment courses. As a freshman he was getting an A- in his first AP course and I asked him if he was okay with that. His response was I want to learn I don’t care about the grade. This desire lead his course selections even when we had to fight with GC because she felt his schedule was too hard. His GPA is 3.92. What I find interesting is his lowest grades have been in AP classes were he scored 5 on the AP test. Not sure if that will validate his GPA or not. </p>
<p>We also live in a little town that prints a picture of the top 10 every spring. Most of the kids think it is a joke. I notice that these lists almost always include all girls or a majority of girls. Not sure what that indicates but they also print pictures of the 30 Club including student who score over a 30 on the ACT and in that photo the breakdown is closer to 50/50.</p>
<p>I’ve heard of schools having a “30/2000” club. I’ve never heard of one being posted in a newspaper though. Interesting. Though it does give the kids something to shoot for and credit for obtaining it. Nothing different than the band or football team getting their photo in the paper.</p>
<p>Our school always publishes a nice article on the top 10 kids and where they are going and doing. I enjoy it. It’s also interesting to see how close the GPA’s are.</p>