<p>I would like to hear opinions from students and alumni on how grade deflation is currently affecting prospective graduate school & job applicants, as well as the academic atmosphere on campus. While I am absolutely thrilled and privileged to be a part of Princeton's Class of 2016, I am worried that the grade deflation policy may negatively impact my hopes of attending a top graduate school or receiving job offers after graduation. I am creating this thread to get direct opinions, as I have read information online and it has both defended and attacked grade deflation, and would appreciate unbiased opinions on the situation. If providing more information about my career goals helps, I hope to study something STEM related, such as MOL or EEB (in addition to avidly pursuing English on the side... perhaps HUM Sequence/Creative Writing certificate/study abroad in Oxford), and possibly attend medical school or graduate school for environmental studies.</p>
<p>You’re asking for unbiased opinions. You’re probably not going to get any. It’s a hot issue.
The closest things you’ll find to unbiased information are the statistics here:
[FAQ</a> -<em>Office of the Dean of the College](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/odoc/faculty/grading/faq/]FAQ”>Grading at Princeton | Office of the Dean of the College)
[Post-graduation</a> data -</em>Office of the Dean of the College](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/odoc/faculty/grading/postdegree/]Post-graduation”>http://www.princeton.edu/odoc/faculty/grading/postdegree/)</p>
<p>Short answer: Princeton students love to hate on grade deflation, but there’s no definitive evidence that we’re any worse off because of it. </p>
<p>Long answer: Ugh.
Grade deflation’s been around long enough now that five full classes of Princetonians have graduated since the new policy was implemented. Things looked bad right around 2008 when employment took a pretty big hit, but that coincided with the recession. The numbers now look a lot like they did before the grade deflation was implemented. If grade deflation was really killing our collective shot at success, something would have been done about it by now. At least I’d like to think that. </p>
<p>People usually use three words to describe academic environments: challenging, stressful, and cutthroat. I’ll address each.</p>
<p>Princeton academics fall somewhere between challenging and really really really challenging, depending on one’s course load. Some people take one course above the typical course load every semester. Some people take death mech and multiple core math departmentals at the same time. On the other hand, some people look for the easiest classes possible, which typically aren’t all that easy. You get out what you put in. This isn’t because of grade deflation. Material here is taught at a fast pace and a complex level.</p>
<p>Princeton academics can be really stressful. Or not so stressful. One major source of stress is having to adjust to the academic talent and work ethic of nearly everyone here. Not all of us are going can be in the first quintile, even though basically all of us were in high school. In fact, half the people here have GPAs below the median. Some people have a lot of trouble coping with that. Some people have parents with unrealistic expectations. Some people have a hard time making the jump in quality of written work (an B paper at Princeton could easily pull an A at a lot of high schools). Some people (like me) look at the clock and realize that it’s four in the morning and that computer program is giving the same error message it was giving seven hours ago. Grade deflation has probably contributed to the general stress level, but I think it’s mostly because people are so used to seeing all As that every B+ or B on the transcript really hurts. It all comes down to making adjustments.</p>
<p>Princeton academics are not (in my experience) cutthroat. When I think cutthroat, I think about people deliberately trying to better themselves at others’ expense. I haven’t seen that here. I’ve heard stories about people trying to beat grade deflation by taking intro classes despite knowing the material to ensure a good grade, but I have no firsthand experience with or evidence of this. What I do know is that people help each other out with problem sets and study together on a regular basis. Princeton’s hard on everyone, but we tend to look after one another.</p>
<p>And if it means anything to you, I have a friend in the MOL department who spent this past semester at Oxford.</p>
<p>FightTheTide, thank you for that informative post. Aside from being mentally debilitating, would receiving B+'s and B’s instead of A-'s have a significant effect on one’s GPA and chances at job/grad school placement, or is this change minimal since it’s happening across the board?</p>
<p>In addition, in regards to EEB and MOL, I have a lingering suspicion that students view EEB as the easier/less respectful of the two. Is that true? And is it possible to be pre-med as an EEB student (I know you can theoretically major in whatever, but is med school a popular option for most of the people you know who are in EEB?)</p>
<p>When I was referring to the A-/B+ gap, I was meaning to point out that the letter had more of a psychological effect than the corresponding number. One B+ versus one A- can make a huge psychological difference early (in the first semester, it’s a 0.1 difference in GPA), but by senior year, its impact will have dropped to less than 0.02 on one’s GPA. </p>
<p>If anyone says EEB is easier than MOL, it’s because EEB majors get course credit to go to Bermuda and scuba dive while MOL majors are stuck culturing cells in lab. EEB is probably more fun, so some stuck-up MOL majors will brag about how much more difficult MOL is. No one else really cares. And of the five or so EEBs I can think of off the top of my head, at least three are pre-med. It’s a popular option for EEB majors.</p>
<p>Thanks again for your helpful responses!</p>
<p>In regards to EEB vs. MOL, the BIOS study abroad program is something that really appealed to me (as well as things like Tropical Biology in Kenya, etc.), but would that type of research as opposed to MOL related research be less favorable in med school admissions?</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say that the Dean’s information is unbiased. You can go to the dailyprincetonian.com and search for articles on, and discussions of, grade deflation.</p>
<p>Oh Decillion, a true CCer…a month since being accepted into Princeton and already considering med school admissions. No judgement here 
I did the exact same thing because I have not even the vaguest idea of how to get accepted into grad school or get a good job. And it’s weird not knowing how to achieve the next step after spending the past four years committing college admissions advice to memory. But don’t forget to follow your own advice in the “Is there any hope for me at all?” thread. That was some good stuff 
If you want to research Tropical Biology in Kenya, do it!! Princeton offers us so much and it’d be a shame if we didn’t take advantage of that because we were scared of how it’d look to med schools/grad schools/potential employers. Congratulations on Princeton I’m excited to meet you next year!!</p>
<p>And FightTheTide, thanks for your response on grade deflation…that was very helpful!</p>
<p>It’s not that bad. Definitely hurts our school though (in terms of atmosphere, admissions yield, and arguably job placement).</p>
<p>@randombetch</p>
<p>Ya I remember talking to you through PM (which was very informative btw) and, while it does seem to have a negative effect (however large that may be), the way you framed it put me at ease. Thanks again :)</p>
<p>This may sound like a stupid question, but I’m asking because I don’t know: why isn’t Princeton trying to decrease grade deflation if it does hurt the school like randombetch says?</p>
<p>I have a friend at Yale who has friends at Princeton and he says it is bad to the bone, and he is thrilled to be at Yale.</p>
<p>Administration tries to “do the right thing” even though it hurts us.</p>
<p>Ok, multiple things need to be addressed here.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Never ever ever listen to a “friend of a friend of a friend” when it comes to a school’s atmosphere. I go to Princeton. I’d tell you any day that I’d much rather be here than at Yale or Harvard. You’ll get this from any student at any school unless they are miserable.</p></li>
<li><p>Grade deflation has really only affected a small subset of classes. The grade distributions in science+engineering classes have barely changed or have given out more A’s in recent history. The classes that were most affected by this policy are the large lecture classes in the humanities like ECO101 or something to the likes of that.</p></li>
<li><p>You’ll never have to deal with something like being in a small seminar and the professor artificially cuts off the amount of A’s to a very small set of people in the course. In classes like these, the professors always tell the students at the start of the course (in my courses and my friends’) that if you do A quality work you will get an A.</p></li>
<li><p>Most language classes are precurved and some larger courses are precurved as well like the introductory chemistry courses.</p></li>
<li><p>Do some people get “grade deflated”? Yes. It happens. Is it a very small but vocal minority that will raise hell over it when it happens? Yes. I can’t tell you how many surveys we’ve filled out in the past 2.5 years I’ve been here about grading policies and academic life. Things are in the works to be changed and the dean who put the policy in place is no longer in that position. Basically, the administration is well aware of the problem and the student government is doing everything they can to make the administration give serious thought to the issue.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Basically, don’t go off rumors. Nobody here can tell you that getting a B+ vs. an A- will deny you from med school or a job. They’re just making that up. Just know that an incredibly amount of people are happy at Princeton and wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world.</p>
<p>@orcaa Well of course he thinks Yale’s better – he goes there!</p>
<p>Grade deflation has had zero impact on my life / happiness here. Then again, COS majors don’t really have to worry as much about job prospects. <em>shrugs</em> I secured internship offers for the summer really easily.</p>
<p>Lots of people are really happy at Princeton. Most people who complain about grade deflation use it as a scapegoat. We’d have curved classes anyway even without the policy, and the science / engineering courses haven’t changed the way they grade at all. My first day of COS126 the professor said, “F*** grade deflation! You can get an A in my class if you deserve an A.”</p>
<p>Lots of us are stressed, too, but I think that that would be true regardless…ehhh.</p>
<p>“Nobody here can tell you that getting a B+ vs. an A- will deny you from med school or a job.”</p>
<p>Do you mean no big difference between 3.7 and 3.3 for medical school admission? You cannot be serious.</p>
<p>It’s. One. Grade.</p>
<p>If one class keeps you out of med school, I’m pretty sure there are a bunch of other reasons you didn’t get in.</p>