<p>It is really hard for kids to keep their interest on physics. Should parent do something to help them “keep their doors open” or just follow their interest?</p>
<p>MOST kids change their interests over and over and over. MOST college students switch majors at least once. many people get jobs that are not directly related to their college major. MOST young people will switch careers at least twice in their lifetimes.</p>
<p>You are taking about a 13 year old! He could change his mind, and his interests could change MULTIPLE times in the upcoming years. </p>
<p>One if my kids wanted to be a teacher for a long time. Then he wanted to be a pilot. He is a professional musician.</p>
<p>My other kid wanted to be a teacher. Then she wanted to be a nurse. Then she got dual degrees in engineering and biology. But wait. She does NOT want to be an engineer despite having an engineering degree. She joined the Peace Corps after college. Now she wants to work in a field related to health care. </p>
<p>If I had ever tried to force y kids to do what <em>I</em> wanted them to do, they would not have found what THEY wanted to do! </p>
<p>What is more important to you? Having this kid take the courses YOU want him to take and having him be interested in what YOU want him to be interested in…or having him be able to explore interesting multiple interests and figure this out himself? </p>
<p>My opinion…at the end of the day, your child will be better off making some of these decisions with gentle guidance and encouragement to pursue what HE wants to do…not being shoehorned into what YOU want.</p>
<p>My kid liked physics and electronics when he was in elementary school, but discovered comp sci early on and pushed himself to excel in it. The school offered so little he had to teach himself. By the way one of his “accomplishments” was a mod for Civ 4 that got written up in Gaming Magazine. We rolled our eyes at that one!</p>
<p>My other clue didn’t have a clue what he might like to do until senior year of high school. He’s now a senior in college, speaks pretty good Arabic and is an International Relations major. He took Latin in high school and liked history, though I think his favorite teacher was his pre-calc teacher.</p>
<p>There is a big difference between liking the idea of physics (which is about all that 99.9% of middle school kids are capable of) and liking learning physics and solving physics problems.</p>
<p>Middle school children and HS students should follow their interests to THEIR interest level. They need to guide the process with their questions, and their requests.</p>
<p>You mentioned before about Mathcounts kids doing extra work. Sure there are parents pushing their kids, but the kids who succeed at MathCounts are doing so because they are motivated to work at the problems. It is no different than the soccer player who comes home and begs to go out and practice their tricks. When a kid has a passion they will let you know.</p>
<p>Until they find their passion, support them with options, not mandates.</p>
<p>My oldest was one of the top kid in Mathcounts in the state. It was clear that the other ones had all been extensively coached. They had the answers before I could even read the questions and had clearly memorized all the types of questions. It was kind of sad, but I hope that actually they enjoyed the time it must have taken. My son liked Mathcounts, but he did not spend anytime beyond the afterschool club time doing prep for it.</p>
<p>If you want your kid to like physics build a trebuchet together or see how much weight you can hold on a bridge made out of balsa wood sticks, or play with electric circuits, or make holograms.</p>
<p>As far as I can tell the papers say lots of kids in Australia think physics is boring or scary. So what?</p>
<p>2300 vs 2100 is a big difference. I don’t think training will bring many kids from 2100 to 2300. 2300 is 1-2 questions wrong per section. These are brilliant kids. I suppose months of drilling, combined with multiple attempts and a little luck might get someone naturally at 2100 to 2300 but it isn’t something I would bet on.</p>
<p>2100’s get a fair shot at Princeton (7.5% vs 7.4% overall) and in my mind that is all that I’d ask for.</p>
<p>Why is physics so special that it’s important that your child become highly proficient at a young age? What makes you think it’s more valuable than history or literature or the arts? </p>
<p>And it’s really, really important that you understand you are working in a different culture here than what you are used to. If all your son does is dutifully follow the path you laid out for him, he will be at a DISADVANTAGE in elite college admissions. American culture, and American colleges, strongly values following one’s own interest. And admission to top schools here is NOT about “how many SAT scores or APs you have taken.” I fear you are holding on to how things are done elsewhere.</p>
<p>I have 2 kids at top schools. One was always interested in chemistry -and is now an Economics major. One was always interested in creative writing -and is now a history major. It doesn’t MATTER. It’s perfectly fine. There is no reason for you to push physics at him so hard.</p>
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<p>It’s still less scary than biology in Australia. I’m pretty sure that every native wild animal in that country can kill you – even the koalas.</p>
<p>I am not disagreeing with anyone, but I am curious about the certainty some have about a student like described being retained having such devastating consequences. Is this “common sense”, or anecdotal, or is there some study about this? Have I missed something that important? </p>
<p>In general, even though I agree it is way to early for a parent to be maneuvering for a college admission, I also believe there are few decisions make that are devastating. Everytime I read one of those “if you do this, watch your back when they pick your resthome” comments, I wonder if single decisions make that much difference over time.</p>
<p>Not many takers for the randomized study to determine the effects of holding back high-achieving middle schoolers in the absence of a change in schools.</p>
<p>I suspect the tone would be entirely different if the OP had suggested having her son transfer to an elite boarding school as a repeat 8th or 9th grader. Heck, if I were to send my young-for-grade D to boarding school, I’d be the first to suggest a repeat year for her. But I can’t imagine making her repeat a year within the same public school simply to obtain a one-year acceleration in one subject, any more than I could imagine having her married off or briefly put into foster care in order to game financial aid.</p>
<p>OTOH, if it were the kid lobbying for the repeat, I wouldn’t be happy about it (and would probe hard for whether there was some other issue going on), but would not necessarily see it as a devastating decision for a kid to make.</p>
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<p>Studying high school level (up to AP) physics for three years is really not worth it. The only situation that I can see taking both AP courses is if the high school uses the B version as the regular or honors physics courses for students taking their first physics course. If he is that interested in physics beyond the regular or honors entry-level physics course and a more advanced or AP physics course (two years), he would be better off either taking physics at a college or doing extracurricular activities and learning relating to physics.</p>
<p>But then it is not obvious whether he will be that focused on physics, as opposed to you being focused on physics for him.</p>
<p>I never expect physics is his major in college. I just feel high school physics is weak (one yr only). If combining physics honor and AP together, he can build a good math/physics science foundation for the future in any science, engineering or medical school of top university. 2 yrs are too aggressive to study physics honor plus AP physics based on my experience. It is only for college application.</p>
<p>At the same time, I believe all language art/social study are same important as math and science</p>
<p>Shrinkrap, I’m speaking from personal experience with my oldest kid. He is brilliant-like tested brilliant, but when he began 8th grade it was in a new school in a new district (neither was in Seattle). He was forced to repeat a subject-math-his strongest-because his new school wouldn’t recognize the previous level he had taken at the previous school. His father (my ex) and I fought with the school for nearly a year and son became more and more disengaged and angry. His interest in school never recovered and it truly affected the path his life took from there on. Unfortunately, I was not in a financial position to fight it beyond what we did and my ex gave up.</p>
<p>Contrast that to an experience we (current H and I) had two years ago when my younger D’s reading teacher refused to allow her to work at her level in his reading/writing class. We presented studies and our own observations about letting bright kids work at their typically faster pace and got nowhere. We ended up pulling her out of school. She’s now someplace she can excel-in fact is encouraged to do so, and is happy and loves school, and has even become a natural leader there. The idea of a parent intentionally holding back a bright kid rings lots of alarm bells for me, based on what I saw my own kids go through.</p>
<p>The completely planned out life is another story altogether-what I’ll say about that is that by 8th grade kids like to have some say in how they live their lives. Unless this kid is begging to immerse himself in physics and other sciences, I think the OP is making a huge mistake.</p>
<p>typo:
It isn’t only for college application.</p>
<p>While I agree with a lot of the advice OP is being given, I do want to push back a little at some of the specific arguments being used.</p>
<p>First of all, it is very possible to go from a 2100 to a 2300, and of course you can study for the SAT. Yes, reading is the best and most natural way to build up vocabulary, but I’ve also seen people who studied lists of commonly used SAT vocabulary who improved their scores that way. Tutoring can also be helpful, although if a kid is self-motivated enough to do the work on his own, more than a few sessions to go over some strategies is probably unnecessary. </p>
<p>Although it certainly isn’t necessary to take every AP class available, I think it is fair for the OP to believe that the kids on the highest track are probably in a somewhat better position, in terms of elite college admissions, than her son, just as I think it is fair to say that, were all things equal, a kid with a 2300 probably does have a better chance than a kid with a 2100. </p>
<p>Not everyone gets into an elite college in the same way. A 2100 vs. a 2300 might not matter all that much if you’re getting in in large part on the basis of extracurricular accomplishment, a hook, or a particular area of academic excellence, since in that case, the school wants you for another reason so as long as your scores meet a threshold of excellence, you may be OK. If you’re a bright, well-rounded kid, you’re probably going to have to be much stronger, from a raw numbers perspective, to have a hope of getting in over lots of other BWRKs. </p>
<p>The issue then becomes a)how important is it to go to an elite school and b) what measures are reasonable to take to achieve that goal?</p>
<p>I’m not going to say much about a) in order not to derail this thread, but as for b), I’d say what the OP is suggesting - and not just the retention plan - goes far beyond reasonable and into trying to micromanage a kid’s life. Some of what she has said also indicates to me that she overestimates the importance of elite schools and underestimates the number of excellent schools in this country. In addition, while I agree that she is right that SAT and difficulty of schedule is important, I think she is greatly overestimating the impact of her son’s current math placement to his future prospects, including college prospects.</p>
<p>OP, I think this would be an issue for college admission if you expected your son to get into college on the basis of his fantastic math skills. Given what you’ve said about his ability relative to others in his class, I don’t think he is likely to have the level of skill that would make Harvard swoon anyway. Otherwise, the schedule he is on track to take seems pretty much on par with the schedule that many other students who get into the schools you are thinking of - and many other great ones - take.</p>
<p>More importantly, while it is great to encourage him to succeed, if you act as if you assume and/or desperately desire that your middle schooler is going to get into Harvard on the basis of the information you’ve presented here, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment and him for low self-esteem and burnout if he can’t meet your clear expectations, even if you don’t say them directly. Even if he continues in the path that he seems to be on right now - and whether or not he takes two or three years of physics - maybe he’ll be one of those superstar students who is in the range for top Ivies (many of whom don’t get in anyway), or maybe he’ll be a very strong but not spectacular student who can more reasonably aspire to schools a notch or two down the pecking order (again with no guarantee that he’ll actually get in), and that’s fine. My friend who has gone furthest in the STEM field was something of a slacker in high school and didn’t take (non-AP) physics until senior year. She became a much more serious student at our state university, where she fell in love with astrophysics. She’s spent the last few summer breaks from her grad program working at Los Alamos. I’m pretty sure her parents pushing her to go to a physics camp after 9th grade wouldn’t have done her much good.</p>
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<p>A year of high school physics is the typical recommended prerequisite for the beginning physics course in a university (of course, there are also math prerequisites). A second year of more advanced or AP physics in high school would be a bonus, but not strictly necessary. But taking three years of high school physics would likely be redundant.</p>
<p>Your student’s current track is fine.</p>
<p>Math: will complete calculus BC in 12th grade.
Science: 9th-11th grade takes the three core high school science courses; 12th grade can take an advanced or AP course in the science of his choice.</p>
<p>What is wrong with that?</p>
<p>I don’t see too much difference. I think it is doable to a bright boy
physics honor(10th grade) -> take AP physics B exam with some self-study
chemistry honor (11th grade)
12th grade choose
AP physics C -> take AP physics C (M+EM) exam
or AP Bio/AP chem.
I saw many kids select all of them to highlight in college admission although I think one of AP Bio/chem is enough. Self study AP Bio/AP chem is OK to most students.</p>
<p>You continue to think that admissions to elite schools is dependent upon demonstrating intelligence and racking up the largest number of advanced classes, though. That’s not how college admission works here in the US. </p>
<p>I also strongly suspect you have a set of just a few schools you think are worth considering, with the almighty Harvard in first position, and you don’t understand that there are plenty of top schools here. Please do not be swayed by what you heard in your home country about “what are the best American universities.” People outside the US generally aren’t knowledgeable about what we have here. Please do not assume your son has to go to one of a select handful of schools to be successful. That is not how it works here.</p>
<p>There is absolutely no reason to take a sequence of honors physics/Physics B/Physics C. Our local HS doesn’t offer Physics C but the kids who do take Physics B take it instead of HS Physics.</p>
<p>But the question is now moot since Physics B has been split into Physics 1 and Physics 2 (both one year algebra based physics classes) starting with the 2014-15 academic year.</p>