<p>@ncparent2, You may want to search nsmsfs by school name on the net. NMS corp usually releases this info to local news media that posts it on the web. Therefore, its easy to get.</p>
<p>Seems analogous to the college choice that some find (and your daughter may find four years from now):</p>
<p>a. Big state flagship university with a range of students from the top of the top to those barely eligible for a four year school, with enough academic offerings for each level of student. (This is probably more the case in states like AZ and AL than in NC.)</p>
<p>b. Small private university which a higher baseline of admissions, but fewer top of the top students, and academic offerings aimed only at the middle of the range because the edges of the range are not numerous enough.</p>
<p>Do not worry about HS rankings. Do not worry about the general HS population. You live in your chosen neighborhood, likewise by the classes your D takes she will be in a more elite neighborhood of students. The number of AP courses suggests a large enough core of top students because the school couldn’t afford to run these classes without the students to fill them. A “holistic” environment? Give me a break. YOU provide the whole environment- sounds like the private school caters to rich parents whose kids are bright but not gifted. Can’t stress the kids with too challenging an environment, instead offer ritzy opportunities. A student can study abroad in college.</p>
<p>I like post #42 from ucbalumnus.</p>
<p>What is nsmsfs? When I searched, all I saw was National Marine Fisheries Service!!</p>
<p>I think there are some extra letters in there. National Merit Semifinalist, or NMSF. </p>
<p>I would vote for the public school too, and I have to say in response to something OP said:</p>
<p>" I don’t think the small private offers less academic opportunities. I cannot say that at this point. But obviously less AP classes. "</p>
<p>With graduating classes of < 15 students, I don’t see any way there CAN’T be fewer opportunities than at a school big enough to offer several AP classes. Over and above the AP issue, the private is going to be much more limited in terms of the variety of courses offered, because they aren’t going to have enough students to fill a wide variety of classes. </p>
<p>Especially given that the student wants to go to the public HS it seems like an easy choice to me.</p>
<p>My kids have always been in public schools, in gifted or magnet programs. I have observed a few families opt to move their kids from public to private for middle school and then back to public HS. I would guess that like OP, they were partly concerned with controlling the peer group. In middle school I think that kind of decision can be beneficial. But by high school, I think there are fewer cases where it makes sense. Hopefully by high school kids have developed a bit more sense of who they are and what kind of people they want to associate with–and in most decent sized high schools they can easily find their people. I also think that sheltering your kid up until you send them off to college is likely to result in far more trouble (if they are the type to get in trouble) than t hey are likely to have in HS. In most cases anyway.</p>
<p>So barring some specific reason that this student is a risk for bad influence (and wanting to date at 14 is not a risk factor) I don’t see a whole lot of value in the more protected environment. Again, particularly if the student doesn’t want to be there–keeping her sheltered when she wants to go to the bigger school is likely to contribute to more rebellion–either now or in college.</p>
<p>It’s really not that simple. My kids went to a huge public high school that offered 22 AP courses. No one took that many. The ones aiming for highly selective universities probably took 6 to 9, but most students didn’t take any. Most teachers claimed at Meet the Teacher night that 75% students passed and some said with a 4 or 5. My kid always did very well so I had no complaints. Our average SAT scores were nothing to boast about (slightly above state average maybe). But again my kids did fine. Both dh and I felt they received an education that was very nearly as good as our prep schools despite larger classes. The top 10% of kids at the high school (maybe even the top 25%) went to excellent schools.</p>
<p>If you are aiming at highly selective colleges the question to ask of both schools is what their college placement is like for students like your child. So for example, my kids have always scored well on standardized tests - so the issue for me was, would a kid getting somewhere between 2100-2400 have good enough choices coming from the public high school or should we pay for privates? In the end for both kids the public school made sense, they wanted to be with their friends and they were both with a crowd of high-achievers and the younger one planned to take advantage of their excellent music program. </p>
<p>Many private schools don’t offer a lot of AP courses because they prefer to offer courses that are more tightly focused that those the AP curriculum offers, and that is a perfectly reasonable choice. Their courses will be every bit as rigorous as AP course despite not having the AP designation. Other private schools aren’t worth the tuition - or at least aren’t if you are looking for a rigorous college prep curriculum. Colleges do judge students in context and are looking for students who make the best of what is offered to them. They are also pretty aware of the differences between schools.</p>
<p>I know the small private cannot offer as much variety of classes. Simple numbers tell me that. Same with clubs. I’ll get a list of EC’s to compare though. </p>
<p>It would be an easy choice if the large public had good ratings. Clearly it does not overall. But again, I need to get more data specific to the honors and AP students.</p>
<p>I believe we made good decisions sending her to the public elementary school. And again when we decided to go with the small private for middle school. High school is a much tougher choice for us. You’re right that they are more mature and less likely to be influenced by 9th grade. Not to say they can’t be influenced, for sure. We look at wanting to date at 14 as a huge risk factor!! But I know I do not want to shelter her too much either. I was very sheltered in high school, and my college grades my freshman year showed it very clearly. Once I settled down my sophomore year, I was OK. But my GPA never recovered. It only takes one bad year, no matter how well you do the rest of the time. So I will not overly shelter my daughter. That said, the correct peer group and the proper influences in their life can’t be overstated. </p>
<p>We’re pretty happy with where it seems our daughter is at the small private. I really don’t think their curriculum level is an issue. Diversity of curriculum and lack of AP classes, as several have pointed out, is. The public has the diversity, I just need to figure out how it compares with the level of the small private. Wouldn’t it be nice if there was some system to compare private and public??!</p>
<p>Completely off topic, but I’m getting so much good advice here that I have to ask…</p>
<p>would you allow your 14 yo to go with their school group to Guatemala? They have a trip planned for the spring, without parents going along. Guatemala, in my opinion, is not a region I would send my child. Particularly without parents going along. El Salvador and Honduras, both next door to Guatemala, are two of the highest murder rate nations in the world. I understand the school thinks it is safe or they wouldn’t be going. But I do not.</p>
<p>Does anyone have information on the country? They will be staying in a small village 10 miles outside of a larger town that is generally considered safe for tourists due to armed patrols in the town. They’ll be helping to build a school there. Would you let your 14 yo go? Obviously, I’m really struggling with this. I’m fine with trips to any number of ‘safe’ countries… England, Italy, France, Japan, etc. I know there can be danger anywhere you go. But countries with travel advisories or travel warnings, to me, are not a good choice for sending 14 yo’s without parents. Much like choosing the neighborhood you live in, why not choose the safer countries to send kids?</p>
<p>Well, I’d be far more concerned about sending my 14 year old to Guatemala than to her local public high school where she already has some friends…</p>
<p>She may be more sheltered at the private high school but this could backfire into undesirable rebellious behavior if she feels you are being controlling and overprotective. I think that’s more likely as she gets older/more independent, especially if she tires of the small social scene.
She may legitimately need a larger social scene if she’s extroverted.
She has several objectively valid reasons (number of APs, sports opportunities, existing friends) to prefer the larger school.
Even if you have concerns and want to protect her, the fact is next year she’ll be 15 going on 16–just two years away from legal adulthood, and do you think the best way to guide her into that is to keep her in the most protected environment? Isn’t it better to expose her to a little more while she still lives at home and you can monitor/guide/discuss?</p>
<p>Sorry for the typo: NMSF not NSMSF. If you search the name of your school or district and National Merit semifinalists you should pull up how many the school produced.</p>
<p>mathyone, I agree it could backfire. It’s exactly what happened to me my first year of college. I was so overprotected that I felt like a bird just freed when I got away to college. Academics/studies were the last thing on my mind! We’re trying to be sure and not make that mistake. But it’s hard to do. Our daughter is our only child, and you tend to want to protect them more so. I think we’ve found a good middle ground. </p>
<p>I talked with her again last night about all this, and now that I’m seriously looking into this, she isn’t sure she wants to change. I was surprised. That is not what she has been telling us. She has friends at both schools. But of course, her ‘clique’ is naturally at the school where she has been. So she is now really hesitant about the idea of leaving her closest friends. She has four girls in particular that she is always doing things with. They all live very close by, but if there is a change of schools, they would naturally drift apart somewhat. That would be hard for her, as she has grown up with these girls. Another factor to consider. </p>
<p>I’ll continue to check, while she does some thinking about it.</p>
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<p>Sigh. I think you’re a little confused on the math.</p>
<p>“1/3 of top prep school kids go to elite schools” doesn’t mean “and therefore elite schools are dominated by kids who went to top prep schools.” Graduates of those top prep schools make up a vanishingly small proportion of the student body.</p>
<p>There are tons of parents on here whose kids attended decent-but-not-outstanding public schools and whose kids are at top schools.</p>
<p>Not sure how I’m confused by the math. All I’m saying is that around 1/3 of the graduates of top prep schools get into the upper tier colleges. That says nothing at all about whether the top tier colleges are dominated by kids from prep schools. But it does say alot about the chances/odds for those prep school kids. And my money is on the fact that those prep school names have meaning for the folks sitting around the table making admissions decisions. </p>
<p>I can’t speak to whether the top prep schools are getting more or less students into top tier colleges. I have no idea.</p>
<p>Top schools want a MIX. They want SOME kids from Exeter, SOME kids from Scarsdale High, SOME kids from Average High, and SOME kids from Really-Poor-High but the kid is a diamond in the rough. If you learn nothing else from CC, please learn that. There is no secret sauce formula. It feels like you’re trying to create one, and that your opening ingredient line is “Insert child into private high school.”</p>
<p>At the highest prep school levels, be aware that there is lots of money and lots of legacy. But so what? My kids attended Good-But-Not-Outstanding Public High (middle to upper middle class affluent, but not tippy-top affluent) and they’re both at top 20 schools (one an LAC, one a university). Whether the good folks at Exeter get 100% of their kids into Ivies is just of no concern to me.</p>
<p>You have to keep “hooks” in mind when looking at stats. </p>
<p>At any top prep school, you’ll find kids who are legacies, URMs (especially through ABC and PrepForPrep), athletes (especially in prep sports), and development/celebrity admits. Kids in these categories will be admitted at high rates. Their admission, however, doesn’t mean it’s the high school they attended which matters.It also doesn’t mean that, assuming your kid isn’t a URM, a legacy, developmental or celebrity admit or a recruited athlete, his/her chances are necessarily better.</p>
<p>When a prep school tells you that 30 members of its class went to Harvard last year, ask how many of them were legacies, recruited athletes, and URMs. Then knock off a few more for probable celebrity/developmental admits. (Developmental admits are the kids whose families will pay for a building or an endowed professorship to get them in.) It’s the kids without connections who get in that you want to know about.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether your kid makes it to an elite private university or not the benefits of attending a strong high school cannot be overstated. For example, my son is not attending an elite private university. He is attending a top 20 engineering program on a prestigious scholarship that covers his tuition at a state university. His lowest class grade on his midterms is a 98 (Physics). He scored a perfect 100 on the Calculus midterm. In engineering these are often considered weed out courses, but he is doing well. This would not be happening if he had not attended a strong high school in my opinion.</p>
<p>Four years ago he had graduated from a below average middle school. His SAT score on Duke TIP 7th grade was below 1200. Nobody at his middle school excelled in Duke TIP. No nmsf at the local high school. </p>
<p>we put him in a high school that produces several nmsfs. The hs counselors told him he was so weak he needed to transfer to an alternative school i.e. one that did not offer AP and honor level courses. He refused alternative schooling, stayed and worked hard. He made good friends, fell in with a good group of kids (One is at Rice, another at Stanford, the third is at Notre Dame). Several others are in good engineering programs across the country. He graduated as a National Merit semifinalist and National AP Scholar. As you can see doing well in college.</p>
<p>That is good to hear. But I’m guessing the ones from the average and Really-Poor-High are going to have to have some pretty astounding GPA’s, SAT’s, and EC’s to have any chance. My opening ingredient isn’t “insert child into private high school”. It’s the other way around. I’m looking to move her from private to public. </p>
<p>I understand the legacies, offspring of the rich and famous, athletes, etc. It hurts the chances for those folks basing most of their strengths on the academics. But it is reality. I am hoping my daughter’s athletics may help her into a better college. But it would be a small college if so. And I think that would only have any possibility if she transfers to the large public. I am curious as to how much difference everyone thinks it makes if a friend is a strong alumni or a past professor who is willing to put in a good word with admissions? I suppose the admissions folks get that all the time. We have another very good friend on the board of directors at a large college, but unfortunately it’s a Top 100, not a Top 20 school. </p>
<p>Perazziman, that’s a great story and what I like to hear. I wish we had a high school here that had a strong reputation. If we did, I wouldn’t be debating this choice. Unfortunately, we do not. The small private is building a good rep. But it takes time. The large private has always had poor numbers overall. I do, however, need the numbers for the honors and AP classes. I asked for those today and hope to have them next week. The issue, however, is still my concern that any colleges looking at her application will only see that the large public high school overall is not strong. Which is going to hurt her chances.</p>