Graduated Dead Last In Class Of 350 (no Joke!!!)

<p>qb1981,</p>

<p>There is no shame in the CC route. I went to a CC for a year, transfered to UCLA, and graduated there and will now be going to grad school. Other schools I was accepted to included Berkeley, Columbia, and Cornell.</p>

<p>I knew one transfer from my school who went to Stanford.</p>

<p>If you are serious about your studies, and you are willing to do everything necessary (which is basically just tons of paperwork), then you, at minimum, have a top UC, Michigan, UT-Austin, or other top public in your future.</p>

<p>People need to realize that the needs of the armed services must come before the individual service member. I have been in involved in soldier education since marrying into the military in the 1980s. Not all soldiers do have the time availability to avail themselves of the educational benefits that are waiting. In terms of who is pursuing their degrees, we see many more senior NCOs closing in on retirement in a couple of years as opposed to junior enlisted members.</p>

<p>That being said, an infantryman SHOULD have achieved NCO rank within 5 years. Each MOS has different promotion rates.</p>

<p>In most cases, community colleges are located near where one lives. The question for qb, who wants to be out of TX is whether he can relocate to another state and attend community college there. Another option might be to take distance learning courses such as UT-Austin's or the Harvard Extension School. But it would be very important to discuss the type of courses to be taken in order to build a profile for admission. </p>

<p>An issue that has come up is whether qb should transfer or apply as a freshman. If transferring is the best option, qb should take a full slate of courses. If applying as a freshman, qb should avoid being a full-time student. Unfortunately, I don't know what is the best way to proceed. </p>

<p>I do agree that in large state unis, there is a range of ages among the students that would make qb stand out less than in a small LACs. The same range of students can also be found at ccs. Some are excellent. In CA, many ccs are conduits to the UCs.</p>

<p>Nope, 4 years, 1 month, and 14 days. I never got to go the board, CSM ruled that I could not attend until I returned from Honduras. When I returned to Hawaii in June of 2004 they had already deployed to Afghanistan. I was placed on Rear D (slave work) until the end of stop-loss. You can't go to PLDC, if you can't go to the board. This happened to maybe 5 or 6 other guys I with. I'll never forgive CSM Leota for that load of crap he pulled on us--thinly veiled punishment for not going to Afghanistan...</p>

<p>You need to not compare your stats and ec (well army), graduation 6 years ago, to those fresh out of HS...it is apples and oranges...different approach to the application process</p>

<p>Are you going to work while going to school? How will you live...apartment...fulltime, parttime, because you can often take great classes with as a partime student while working to get you started</p>

<p>Finances? Where is $$ coming from</p>

<p>Many schools have programs geared toward old students, who have been working, etc...</p>

<p>Do you think that 30 year old going back to college take the SAT?</p>

<p>qb1981, perhaps my experiences give me more of an "insider" perspective. I am a retired LtCol who went to med school on an Air Force scholarship. My brother, a definite underachiever in high school, flunked out of his first quarter at Ohio State and joined the Army. He served for 6 years. Was always promoted early and, indeed, left as an NCO. Took CC courses on his own time when permitted and correspondence courses when he was not permitted to go to CC by his commander. At the end of 6 years, had a year's worth of college credit that transferred to the 4 year college he graduated from. As you did, his primary lesson learned in the Army was that he wanted out (as he put it "I'm sick of babysitting adolescent boys") and this time he planned to be serious about his education. And he was. Completed both bachelor's and master's degrees and is now a software engineer with two kids in college. My comments about your situation are the following:</p>

<p>1) Yes, your test scores are unique, especially for an African
American man, and will provide you with some leverage, but will not, in themselves, get you admitted to any college. They'll get you a look. But not an admissions ticket. To anywhere, let alone Harvard. Yes, Harvard has admitted non-traditional, disadvantaged minority students who are smart. But these individuals subsequently demonstrated unique drive and accomplishments.</p>

<p>2) In non-traditional students with smarts, like you, the colleges want some hard evidence that your performance will not be a repeat of the underachievement you displayed in high school. They want evidence not that you're smart, but that you've succeeded in overcoming your situation.</p>

<p>3) Though all colleges are appreciative of your service to your country and are sensitive to the plight of the junior enlisted man, they are not going to credit you for 5 years of following orders. Any enlisted man can do that. No, the military is not necessarily good at promoting able enlisted personnel to the NCO or Officer ranks. In fact, some COs are threatened by especially able enlisted personnel and will derail their education to keep them subordinate. But, in 5 years, there is always a commander or senior NCO who will recognize the combination of talent and hard work and reflect this in performance reports, nominations for awards, etc. So, here are more questions for you:</p>

<p>a) What advanced education (even military education) did you seek out AND COMPLETE as an enlisted person? What advanced schools did you complete? What certificates/awards/reports do you have as evidence of these accomplishments?</p>

<p>b) What military honors/awards did you receive in the 5 years you were on active duty? Any Commendation Medals? Distinguished Service Medals? Any Good Conduct Medals? Were you disciplined at any time during your enlistment? Were you promoted on time? Early? Did you test early for promotion and not get promoted?</p>

<p>c) Did you complete any college courses by correspondence? Any for credit?</p>

<p>d) Were your EPRs always exemplary? Do you have copies of these? Do you have any former NCOs or officers who would be willing to write you an excellent recommendation speaking to your work ethic, ability to overcome hardship, and leadership skills?</p>

<p>I advise you to leverage any demonstration of superior work or leadership skills in the military setting as evidence that you will succeed in a very competitive academic setting. If you do not have any such materials, your chances of being admitted solely with a high SAT are nil. How long has it been since you were discharged from the military? What have you done with your time since your discharge? If you haven't enrolled in a college yet, get cracking at your local community college. Prove you have what it takes.</p>

<p>And, as other posters have commented, there's always Harvard Law School. Work your tail off and be 1st in your class in undergraduate school, wherever that is, then get stellar LSATs. Show your appreciation for others who have provided you with advice and mentorship, something I've not seen in your posts. Entitlement won't make friends or get you admitted to Harvard.</p>

<p>And since when does a unit from Schofield support USMA summer training at West Point? It's always been the 10th Mtn Division from Ft Drum to help with Beast and Buckner.</p>

<p>Instead of going the generic CC route, work specifically with a school that is a SOC member. They will have academic counselors specifically trained in evaluating military experiece into course credit.</p>

<p>No, no, no. In the summer of 2003 Drum could not support USMA. Elements of the 504th Airborne, 2-5 Infantry and slice elements from the National Guard supported that mission from Camp Natural Bridge. They hold, without a doubt, the most beautiful 4th of July Celebration you will ever see. If the 10th Mountain did it before that, I really don't know.</p>

<p>The 4th of July concert at Trophy Point is great. Not sure about CNB.</p>

<p>Be glad you don't, CNB SUCKS!!! They had us living in tin barracks, the place should be condemned, the 10th can have it!!</p>

<p>Sir/Ma'am (guiltguru):</p>

<p>Give me time and will get back to you on all of that. Let me go through all of my paperwork, and I will let you know. I can tell that I collect collected 11 letters of rec. in the months before I separated. When first arrived I was immediately put onto the Correspondence Courses, while I completed quite a few of them--when the deployments and the 'Transformation of the Army' started that came to an end. As you may know that they are transitioning to a 'paperless Army' and all CC's were online, and we definitely did not always have access. And when we did sometimes we had 10 minute limits--there were 500 of us.</p>

<p>How can you complain about a TDY to West Point?</p>

<p>As I said, go to a school that is a SOC member. For undergrad: CTC, UMUC, Park are just a few that come to mind. You cn also study on your own and CLEP a tremendous amount of credits</p>

<p>Just a note for the disbelievers. A friend of my son's who I've met had 2400 SATS (if you count best scores from the 2 times he took them) and has a transcript littered with C and D grades. He's a brilliant kid but completely lazy, unmotivated (some family isssues too, divorce etc.) He would simply not do homework. He's actually going to one of CC's top LACs by virtue of his father being a professor there.</p>

<p>Holy Crap, that was not fun. We weren't allowed to do anything. By the time we had left we had renamed the place Camp Natural Hell!! On the way there I thought we were going to have a blast, it was West Point!! I was on the last chalk to arrive, when we got off the bus my boss said these words "No this can't be it, it must be restroom (not everyone says latrine) stop." Imagine 800 people living in an area the size of a football field w/ 4-5 pay phones, 10 computers, no cell phone reception, and the library was bookshelf. On top of that, we could only leave for the weekend. There was so much more but I don't want to go there, although I loved NYC. Everything is so......big.</p>

<p>I still study every single day. I have drawers full of flashcards that I've made over time. Books, DVD's, whatever, I probably bought it already. Right now I'm reading the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius (my second favorite emperor). This is what I do for fun, it is my hobby. I'm actually signed up for a couple of CLEP's. Forgive my ignorance, SOC???</p>

<p>Oh, I don't know - I've heard wierder things. I think a well-spoken African-American army vet who was last in his high school class, but now has almost perfect SAT scores, is highly literate and well-read, and has a really good story to tell, could indeed talk his way into Harvard. (I don't say "would", but certainly "could".) I know personally of a homeschooled student who talked her way into Wesleyan without a single SAT score (and a flat refusal to take 'em), a reject from Smith who walked into the admissions office (attempting to transfer there) and told them "this is your last chance to get me" (they took her on the spot, or so the story goes), and a student who got into Harvard whose main known attribute was that he tended sheep, and a homeschooled student who (relatively recently) entered H. at the age of 14 with almost none of the recommended prerequisites. "Packaged well", this story is at least as compelling.</p>

<p>When I got my first job in state government 15 years ago, as the senior planner for the state board of health, the job required a Ph.D. in epidemiology, or an MPH plus 90 credits related to epidemiological statistics and two years of work experience. I had never taken a single course in public health or statistics in my entire life. Ever. I had NONE of the listed requirements. Zippo. I talked and wrote my way into the job - and won a series of major awards in public health communications once I had it. (I should tell you about the "well-educated" people who worked for me - now THAT'S a story.)</p>

<p>I have learned in life to see requirements as "suggestions". ;)</p>

<p>Go to </p>

<p><a href="http://www.soc.aascu.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.soc.aascu.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It will give you tons of info and help.</p>

<p>You all are great, the advice given here is invaluable. Hopefully, in the future I'll be of those who dole out advice, answers and groundwork concerning the hereafter of others. Thanks.</p>