<p>Of course, it is the girl’s fault for being insecure, not the guy’s fault for being a jerk. It is the guy who is inconvenienced, because he can’t “turn a ho into a housewive.” It’s not the guy that made himself ineligible for a long-term relationship, because of his jerkiness.</p>
<p>How did you come up with that conclusion?
Yes, if the guy is a jerk, its his fault he is a jerk. Obviously.
However, from my experiences, women who are insecure go for the jerk guys. They “settle”, so to say.</p>
<p>I did not take the time to read this whole thread, but here is my opinion.
Always treat a lady with respect…however I think women should treat men with equal respect too. As far as the whole opening the doors and stuff thing, well that can happen but it dosn’t have to happen ALL the time. In my opinion girls that DEMAND that kind of actions all the time are stuck up *****es. Women want equal rights, they want to not be discrimenated against in the work place or anywhere else, awsome, i’m 100% in favor of that, but somtimes they need to open the dam door for themselves…Thats right I said it, because if they want all the benifits of being a man combined with all those of being a woman they are living in a dream world.</p>
<p>I would never demand a man to open a door or pay for anything. If you have to force someone to do something, it’s not going to be the same.</p>
<p>It’s like making my husband go to chick flick. He may go, but if he is going to complain for hours before and after, it’s no fun.</p>
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<p>What kind of guys are you hanging around with?</p>
<p>I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement that most guys pay for a meal to buy affections and additional benefits. If I were a guy and I paid, I’d be offended to be labeled as some kind of pervert.</p>
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<p>Since much of the argument has boiled down to paying vs. not paying, how about we boil down the rules to this: You ask, you pay.</p>
<p>If the guy asks the first date. He pays. Vice versa. Dates after that, the guy and girl switch off and take turns paying/splitting the bill whichever way they want to. I disagree with a default 50/50 split method b/c there could be a large disparity between the incomes of both persons.</p>
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<p>BTW, out of curiosity, do homosexual male couples go by a form of social etiquette for who pays what?</p>
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<p>You used a statistic, not anecdotal evidence. I just merely offered that there were other interpretations on why that statistic could be true.</p>
<p>And there are also plenty of people who have “life experiences” of seeing a traditional couple fail, and a nontraditional couple succeed. There are two people on this board, already, who have given anecdotal evidence that a woman can be the breadwinner in a marriage. Even Michelle Obama made more than her husband before the presidency. Anecdotes work better to provide an example or exception, not a overall generalization of a large group. </p>
<p>As I mentioned, my sister and her husband make about the same amount of money, and since they have a joint account, that means that they pretty much split everything. My brother and his fiance are the same way. And now that I think of it, most of the couples in my family are like that (and my family is full of happy dentists, laywers, and doctors) and all the relationships seem very healthy to me.</p>
<p>I was actually raised to find a man that made a lot for me, that could provide for me and my future children no matter what. I’m 18, so I’m not really thinking about that, but I suppose I HAVE found a guy that would love to do that for his wife one day. But I don’t think that’s necessary. He told me that he would love it if we were married, that I would never have to worry about money or work. I was surprised and told him that I would feel strange NOT having a profession. After all, this is a “College Life” forum, why would I go through so many years of education for it to be wasted? I would want to contribute it back to the world. And plus… I would want some of my own independence. A lot of bad marriages (that also haven’t split) that I have seen have been when the woman has no job, and the man does. Like my boyfriend’s parents - her husband is the only one that works, and therefore controls all the money, so she is kind of trapped… if she buys something out of their account, he knows and it can cause fights because she didn’t technically “earn” any of that money. I’ve seen this in A LOT of families. I’ve even read advice from books/magazines advising women, for this reason, to have a small part time job at least where she can earn money, so that if she wants to buy nice shoes or something, her husband doesn’t have full leverage over her. </p>
<p>I don’t know. I don’t see how independence is bad, and I don’t see why it’s a woman’s fault if her behaviour/actions/beliefs emasculate a man, as long as it isn’t out of bad intentions. Her behaviour can only emasculate him if he ALLOWS it.</p>
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<p>Yes, I agree that that is reasonable. But all in all, I believe it depends on the couple, and what makes them the happiest. I don’t care if a man pays all the time if both the man and the woman are happy, I don’t care if the woman always pays, and I don’t care if they split it 50/50, or proportionate to their income. I just think it is ridiculous how some people complain that the OP is wrong for not wanting a guy to pay all the time, or that it will lead to her having a failed relationship. There’s no single “right” answer that will make every couple happy. Who pays, how a man treats a woman, how a woman treats a man - the “right” way is the one that is the best fit for the couple.</p>
<p>I’d just like to say that I do feel a little insulted when a girl insists on paying (on a date, dinner, etc.), but I don’t feel “emasculated.” I just think, “Wow, what a *****. I’m not dating her again [unless it’s a fun date, etc.].” So I just don’t go for those types.</p>
<p>See, the girl doesn’t have to change for the guy. The guy just goes for another girl, haha. Also, there are men out there that like that sort of thing. What I’m saying is, if you don’t like it, don’t hit it. ;)</p>
<p>LOL, Nick. Yeah, and the girl can just go for another guy. I don’t think it’s necessary to have to change yourself to avoid “insulting” other people, just move on, and find someone that matches you. :)</p>
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<p>So basically, every stay at home mom is a “free loader”, in your opinion. </p>
<p>Oh, no, wait–by staying at home and taking care of her children, she’s just doing her womanly duty, right? So that double standard is totally okay, I get it!</p>
<p>So I’m going to take a wild guess that you would never marry a woman who makes more than you, huh, Dbate?</p>
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This. Don’t invite someone out and ask them to pay (although, if the invitee offers to pay, then that’s fine; you might feel like a bad host for the moment, but there will probably be more than one opportunity). This is also a reasonable trend in same-sex relationships. When you regard yourselves as together, you could take turns paying, or split the bill.</p>
<p>I’m a feminist, but refusing door holding and whatnot is just stupid. No I do not think girls are incapable of holding the door open nor do I assume they don’t have the financial resources to buy a meal. I am just doing that because I am a gentleman. It is more for me anyway, because that is how a gentleman should conduct himself. Walking girls home in the dark? giving a girl your jacket? help them move things? yep.
Personally I don’t care if someone thinks I have ulterior motives, just because I hold myself to certain social standards.</p>
<p>Okay, first ever CC post. I’m so excited!</p>
<p>As for the paying or don’t paying, I think it just comes down to how the girl/guy feel about gender roles. I personally was raised by a pretty old fashioned father and I know that has influenced my views of gender roles considerably. If I go out on a date, I expect the guy to pay, at least on the first date. I always have money to pay, and if he wants me to I will, but there probably won’t be a second date. I agree with Dbate for the most part, but not the way he’s saying it. As a girl I do view the male gender role as the provider in a relationship and I want to date a guy who looks like he will be a good provider and have the ability to take care of me. Note I said “have the ability” that doesn’t mean I will never pay for my own things or expect him to pay for every little thing, but I think it is a highly attractive quality. I also believe that girls should always have their own money as well, so they aren’t dependent upon a man. </p>
<p>That’s just the way I was raised, relationships are about exchanges, if the guys pays or is the provider, the girls does thing for him that shows she cares about him too and appreciates him and his efforts to take care of her. In marriages that may be cooking for him or whatever. In college dating I guess there are other ways to show a guy he is appreciated, sex is an option but not the only one.</p>
<p>I offer to pay every time. If she doesn’t like this, then she will say so and that is that. I don’t see what the big deal is.</p>
<p>I think it’s just that the feminazis like to work themselves up over a bunch of liberal BS.</p>
<p>disssorance…where did I say women can’t be the breadwinner? I said men needed to be treated like men, they need to feel like they are taking care of home. If they are a SAHD, they are taking care of home. There isn’t one correct way to make a man feel like a man, but many ways to accomplish this.</p>
<p>Ok, I got a question which may or may not have been asked in this thread already, dont feel like reading all of it. But, I sometimes dont go on dates because honestly I dont have the money to go out and drop like 40 bucks on a dinner for two, I dont have that much extra money to spend, after all I am a college student. So, I can get girls and have one night stands and *<strong><em>, but getting in a relationship has always scared me because honestly I dont have the money for it. So, do you women find it insulting if the guy asks to split the check? Honestly, as a guy I dont feel the need to go out and buy all this *</em></strong> for women. Opening doors and carrying stuff, yes, I like doing that for women, it just makes me feel good. However, I do not feel the need to buy a girl dinner that I know can afford to pay for her half of the dinner and then some. So, is it ok to just ask to split the check, or like how do you go about that topic while at the dinner?</p>
<p>^ Go to cheaper places. I don’t understand why anyone would pay 20 dollars/person on one meal, and I wouldn’t even let someone pay that much for me, especially if we’re on a first date. Really, don’t chase after girls who expect to be taken to 5 star dinners all the time or things like that, and I’m sure you’ll have no problem finding a girl whose willing to sympathize with a broke college student and foot her half of the bill.</p>
<p>"So basically, every stay at home mom is a “free loader”, in your opinion.</p>
<p>Oh, no, wait–by staying at home and taking care of her children, she’s just doing her womanly duty, right? So that double standard is totally okay, I get it!"</p>
<p>This is exactly the problem with the argument that the man is not a man if he doesn’t have a “bread winning” job. So being more like the stereotypical traditional women is degrading for a man, but a woman should just suck it up and be inferior she shouldn’t protest, right?</p>
<p>It seems to me that maybe the payback for a girl getting monetary favors from a guy is obedience from her, which is usually manifested in her eventually being a wife that is dominated by her husband and does not have enough financial resources to leave him if she is unhappy in the marriage (she would be expected to conform to the guy’s wishes and stay home instead of work, so she wouldn’t have a good income). I’ve seen situation in my own family, so it’s not like it’s just hypothetical. The simple fact is that if the guy is in control of the money, the woman doesn’t have the same amount of “say” in things.</p>
<p>So, Dbate, would it bother you if your wife made more than you? </p>
<p>I think you have control issues. You need to be in control and your way of doing that is knowing that you have financial control over your woman. I think it’s funny that you’re so insecure in your manhood that you couldn’t let a woman take care of you. I feel bad for your future wife.</p>
<p>Don’t wait for dinner to tell her you wan’t to split the check…she might have assumed you were going to pay and not have the cash, or the extra cash. Just ask her out for coffee or something cheap but nice to do on the first couple dates. As your relationship progresses, explain to her that you don’t have the funds to take her to nice places, but you can manage to split the bill if she wants to go. Problem solved.</p>