I’m still early in the process of looking at schools, but I narrowed it down to these schools.
Here is some basic info about me:
-4.0/4.0 combined gpa freshman+sophomore years (weighted)
-Leader of multiple clubs (including diversity club)
-Multiracial
-Varsity athlete
-Multiple AP/Honors classes
-Standardized test score within range of all schools
I want to have a school that is very prestigious and offers tough classes. However, I want my school to have a lively social life (including supporting sports teams). Also, I want my school to have a strong alumnae network, so I can have faith that I could have a strong first (real world) job right out of college.
Out of these five schools I indicated, which would be best for me?
Any test scores? Thoughts on what you might want to study? Are you a rising Junior? If so, no rush to narrow things down yet. Have you visited or plan to visit these schools? That is the best way to decide. They are all fairly even in terms of academic rigor and quality.
A parallel thread, “Accepted to 15 Colleges . . . ,” generated comments on each of these schools; you could get a briefing there to supplement the replies you will receive here.
If you want to support varsity sports teams and you want those teams comprised of Division 1 level student athletes then Colgate is a unique choice among these schools. Colgate men’s hockey was 2nd in the ECAC while in the Patriot League for other sports Colgate was 2nd in women’s soccer, men’s basketball and women’s lacrosse and first in men’s lacrosse. And if you like football, well, there is simply no comparison between Colgate’s schedule and commitment and that of the DIII NESCAC schools.
For now, and as you plan your campus visits, I recommend you check out what the ECAC and PL offer via their websites regarding members and standings and gocolgateraiders.com/inside athletics/facilities to see where the action takes place.
You can’t pick just one of these schools. The odds are too low. In regular decision, the average odds are one in six or lower if you are female. Admissions decisions at these schools are not predictable. Some have Greek life some don’t, some are more culturally diverse and some aren’t. Some are very preppy and some aren’t. Bates and Vassar have the best locations.
Colgate is Division 1 but in some sports the NESCAC schools would whoop Colgate. Colgate is D1 because it gives scholarship money for football, that’s all. It’s a great school but don’t get all crazy that’s its D1.
Have you visited any of these colleges? if not, have you visited any colleges- and if so, what did you think of them?
If you are a rising junior, it’s very early to be picking just one (I assume for ED?). These colleges have pretty different personalities, and if you haven’t yet, you will want to visit some of these over the coming year- ideally, spending a night in a dorm and sitting in on a class.
Note that UW GPA will be relevant. Also, you say that your test scores are “within range”- do you mean the middle 50% or better of admitted students range? If so, that’s a good start.
Pretty sure you should put your faith in maximizing your college opportunities- both during term and in what you do out of term. I know- you didn’t say that you are counting on alum networks for your first post-graduation job They are useful all the way through- even for getting summer internships. I just wouldn’t make that one of my top 3 criteria.
Other college locations in the group are more desirable for their charm, beauty or authenticity. According to Forbes, for example, Colgate’s village is one of America’s 15 friendliest; Hamilton College’s Clinton has similar charm as well as easy access to suburban amenities.
Sorry, as pretty as Colgate and Hamilton are they aren’t near anything interesting nor are they easy to get to.
At Vassar you can get to NY easily. At Bates you can be in fun Portland, ME in 30 minutes roughly or drive or train to Boston. The Maine coast is about 20 miles away from Lewiston, which has 60,000 people. There are great ski areas very close as well.
No doubt Colgate and Hamilton have nice campuses. Gorgeous.
But if you comment mostly about leaving the locations these colleges are actually in, then you are not really commenting on their locations.
That said, the Adirondacks, the Finger Lakes and other upstate New York areas are interesting for those who appreciate nature, especially since the Adirondacks are the only area in the Northeast where old growth forests have been significantly preserved.
Bates and Vassar, as you have pointed out, have aspects to their locations that are definitely highly desirable as well – and as I’m sure I’ve said elsewhere.
I have visited all these schools and like the rural feel. That being said, Hamilton, Colgate, and Colby are the campuses I enjoyed the most. In regards to testing, yes based upon many of the college books I would be in the middle 50% of admitted students range. Going into my junior year, I have been in contact with most of the coaches of my sport (except Colgate) and I have a good opportunity to walk on. I spent the a good part of my young life in Maine, so I’m very familiar with the Maine campuses. My worries with a school like Vassar is that the students may be too ‘artsy’ and not possess as much school spirit like Wesleyan for example. Is that concern valid?
Maybe b/c I know mostly science & math students at Vassar, I think the ‘artsy’ card is a little over-played - to me, it has more of a ‘understated New England Yankee’ feel.
Imo, the feel of these colleges is one of the main things that separates them- as you said, they all have good academics, good alum networks, etc. So, fit will be a big part of it. Starting in the autumn you can do overnights & sit in on classes. While not perfect- you have to be careful not to over-generalize either an exceptionally good or an exceptionally bad host or class!- it will give you a better sense of what sort of a fit the colleges are for you- which is really all that matters.
As a school’s student body becomes more individualist, I’d say school spirit as traditionally interpreted decreases. With respect to Vassar and Wesleyan, they both have an artsy/individualist veneer in comparison to your other choices. Wesleyan does have a fuller sports program – with football and hockey – and may be more to your liking between the two. School pride is a slightly different concept, and it can be found, I’m sure in abundance, at both Vassar and Wes. Colgate’s combination of school spirit and school pride may be what you are looking for, not to the exclusion of your other choices, but to where it should remain in your top two or three.
Oh dear…Please tell me in what varsity sports specific NESCAC schools would “whoop” Colgate. That’s the opinion part.
Then tell me on what basis you have these opinions. Possible responses might relate to scheduled competitions between Colgate and NESCAC schools wherein NESCAC schools have a tradition of winning. Or maybe something about the strengths of schedules and durations of the sports’ seasons. I expect you won’t get much traction though given that Colgate does not schedule NESCAC schools - nor do the Patriot League or ECAC- apart, in Colgate’s case specifically with nearby Hamilton College in crew, tennis and track to the best of my knowledge. And Colgate does well virtually all the time.
Lastly, please tell me more about the “that’s all” remark about Colgate football scholarships and how they legitimize Colgate’s D1 staus overall. I ask because I am worried that you are misinformed. Colgate has for decades offered financial aid to varsity athletes based on need across all of its 25 sports teams and for the past several years has offered proper athletic scholarships to outstanding athletes at the D1 level and as proscribed by the Patriot League and ECAC in most sports.
I do fret when individuals opine and assert without knowing and representing facts. We are here to assist applicants and not to distract them. From my viewpoint, and considering how well Colgate does in varsity competiton at the D1 level, the scene is very different than what one finds at Bates. Yes, that my opinion. But a review of Colgate’s 2014-2015 team schedules, its athletics facilities and the staffing of the Department of Athletics will be useful should one want to make comparisons by sports team. Maybe you also doubt the D1 status and depth of other ECAC and PL teams with which Colgate competes?
No, NESCAC and Bates are not only in a different league but in a different league in a different division.
The only bad thing I have ever heard about social life at Wesleyan is that not everyone can handle the freedom. The campus is surrounded by hundreds of college-owned houses; some have themes; some are fraternity houses. Most are just big prizes in the annual housing lottery. And, thanks to the growing reputation of its music scene, there is a live band playing somewhere virtually every weekend.
Wesleyan has its share of binge-drinking on weekends. And, there’s the matter of that wave of ecstasy overdoses which swept campus during the last academic year. A little of self-assessing is necessary before I would buy into the “Wesleyan Experience” entirely, but, it is possible to have a good time there safely, if you use your head.
Colgate would clearly crush the NESCACs in a money sport like football or lacrosse, but the NESCACs actually have more breadth in the varsity sports offered and would crush Colgate in some of the smaller sports. Inexplicably, Colgate doesn’t field a varsity baseball team at all. The school also does not have varsity squash or skiing (neither alpine nor nordic.)
Trinity has the top men’s squash team in the country and Bates has the top individual squash player. Middlebury and Colgate would likely cream Colgate in a downhill ski race. Colgate does have varsity rowing, but from what I’ve seen most of the NESCACs would smoke Colgate, as evidenced by the few head to head races I could find (weak Head of the Charles results and losses to Hamilton, not a particularly strong rowing team among the NESCACs). These are not the big teams for which you expect big cheering crowds but they actually get great support among the students and their successes are a point of pride for these schools.
Frankly, none of this matters much. I would definitely say that as a D1 school Colgate has a stronger, more intense sports culture than the D3’s. The presence of frats probably supports that culture as well. But I’d also caution that the size of a school’s football program does not necessarily translate into level of school spirit. Plenty of D3 schools have great school spirit and support for their teams. The stands and gyms at a D3 school may be smaller than those of a D1 school but they’re often just as packed, if not more so than their larger peers. The president of my kid’s NESCAC school comes to football and basketball games and cheers in the stands alongside the students and other fans.
One question for the OP is whether (s)he is looking more for a school with huge cheering crowds ala Michigan or 'Bama, or schools where playing sports is made easy and supported by school policy. One nice thing about the NESCAC schools, and I would imagine at least some of the other D3 schools, is that classes and sports are scheduled so they don’t conflict. There are no 4:00 classes. IOW, you can be a football player and a serious student. I’m not sure what Colgate’s policy is (it may be the same) but when my second child was being recruited by NESCACs the coaches all emphasized that although they are serious about sports they see their players as students first and a huge percentage of students play competitive sports.
Track, XC and swimming as well. At the Patriot League Championship, Colgate ran a 3:27 4 by 400. That would have placed 7th at NESCAC championships, 8 seconds behind first place. Colgate’s time would not qualify for many high school invitationals.
So D1 is just semantics. Schools that are D1 have decided to give athletic money for certain sports, namely football and basketball. It does not always mean the teams are better than D3 schools which cannot give sports money.
Glad we are taking a broader view of Colgate D1 athletics as the summer progresses and events at Colgate shape up. These include the new $39 million Class of 1965 Arena whose steelwork starts this week for delivery a year from now. It will be home to ice hockey, soccer and lacrosse- men’s and women’s teams.
We also start intercollegiate competition: women’s soccer vs Connecticut, field hockey vs Fairfield, men’s soccer vs Northwestern, volleyball vs Charleston and football vs Navy. Later are the Patriot League, Ivy teams and other traditional rivals such as Boston College, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pittsburgh, New Hampshire and Air Force to name a few- and that is just through mid-September.
I reiterate ice hockey because it’s arguably our biggest and most popular winter sport where the men’s team were ECAC title runner-up to Harvard. As I recall we had wins over Wisconsin and Bowling Green and were ranked no. 4 nationally. So lots of interest and school spirit there - ever play home and away at Cornell’s Lynah Arena? - and so I would not want our ice hockey programs to be overlooked.
So… With Colgate’s D1 commitment, our successes, and our enrollment of 2950 typically a fraction of that of our competitors’ enrollments, I don’t think that in our case “D1 is just semantics”. And it’s not about just “giving money”. It is rather about investment in our programs as represented by the depth and length of our schedules. These are nothing like what one finds at the D111 level. Look at the schedules and dates (including post season) for yourself.
Yes, it is regrettable that the men’s swimming team 4x400 may not have fared well last year but that’s a challenge for the future. I see that both of our swimming teams were recognized by the College Swimming Coaches Association of America. The men’s team had a 3.26 GPA, second in the Patriot League and 26th in the nation. Perhaps curiously, they are not at all downhearted and probably don’t know about NESCAC times, preferring to focus on their Patriot, Ivy and other regional competition.
If an applicant wants school spirit and a high level of competition he or she would make a smart choice by selecting Colgate.
Correction re men’s swimming at Colgate since 4X400 is about track and field. Insert where applicable that the men;s track and field team had 24 athletes on the PL Academic Honor Roll with 3.2 GPAs or higher. The points as to what Colgate students in any sport may think of NESCAC times and about their own competitive ambitions remain.
They are useful all the way through- even for getting summer internships. I just wouldn’t make that one of my top 3 criteria.