<p>The original poster has acknowledged that she was naive.</p>
<p>I am not surprised that someone could fall for the misleading information that is provided to parents of college applicants about financial aid and “affordability.” We attended a “college night” for junior parents when my daughter was in 11th grade.</p>
<p>First of all, the meeting was held in March, too late for students to register for the next testing date of the SAT, so any parents who had waited for “college night” to be given instructions on how to proceed already had a kid who was potentially behind the curve.</p>
<p>The information conveyed at that meeting was the same falsely-reassuring information about need-based aid that you hear at every college information session. No one explains that your “need” is not based on what YOU think you can pay. No one explains that your “need” could be met by offering you loans to bridge the gap between the EFC and the COA. No one recommends you find an EFC calculator early on and get a look at what COLLEGES will think your contribution should be, so that you can ascertain whether it’s realistic to apply to schools that “meet need.”</p>
<p>This family might not be full-pay, but they anticipated being given grant aid and not loans. Or they might have been among the many, many families who were surprised to find their EFC exceeded the COA only after completing the documents associated with applying to the school. It takes a very large income in the NoVa suburbs of DC to feel like you can write a check for $60K/year, but it’s not at all uncommon for two working parents to have a combined income that puts the family in the “full pay” zone even if they have nothing saved for college. </p>
<p>SHOULD this family have known what was likely to happen with financial aid at Columbia or NYU? Yes, they should have–but I think they should have been told by the high school (ours didn’t tell us) or the various colleges (every college we looked at used the misleading terminology of “need,” without explaining that THEY calculate it based on a formula that amazes every single person).</p>
<p>This is an unfortunate dilemma and not a rare one.</p>
<p>Gour, even though OP may have said she was looking for merit aid at Columbia, I suspect that what was really happening was that their income was at a level, where if the D did get accepted, she would get some need based aid. Its hard for people outside of CC to put need based aid and family income over 100K in the same sentence, but I think that was what was going on.</p>
<p>Ab, NYUs aid is not peculiar. Most schools do not claim to meet aid. NYU is in that group.</p>
<p>This sounds more like an issue of internal family dynamics than something outsiders can solve.</p>
<p>Back in the day, my dad went to the state school that he could afford through ROTC. Mom went to the same state school that her dad allowed her to attend. She wasn’t allowed to apply to other state because dad thought it was the “party school” and dreamed of Stanford but wasn’t allowed to apply. My brother-in-law went to the state flagship and “chose” the major that was dictated by his dad. I applied to 3 schools, got in to 3 schools and after dad sat down and crunched the numbers of FA package said “You’re not going to Penn. UW or Cal - take your pick.”</p>
<p>In our case, D had SCEA rejection from Stanford, has 2 OOS private favorites, 1 OOS private “lesser” safety and 2 state schools. Plus one OOS private that does FA differently than some others. When asked by people why she applied there she says, “because my mom told me to.” </p>
<p>D of OP is sounding like one of the kids from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. For what it’s worth, I would say to give her the realistic options simply (could be W & M or gap year or . . . ?" and let her pick her favorite of those on the table or chew off her foot and learn a lesson. D could be one of those kids on the FA forum who are bemoaning the fact that parents won’t contribute to dream school, or she could renegotiate who’s driving the bus and likely have a great college experience. First, though, OP needs to decide who’s driving the bus. No amount of well meaning advice can help with that.</p>
<p>As far as falling in love with NYU, I can completely understand that happening. When DD was going through the process, she got the most fabulous stack of publications from NYU (I often wished I could have the NYU publication budget deposited into my account). She had never done anything to indicate interest, but was on the NYU list. </p>
<p>I also am in the camp that believes kids should not limit applications because of cost. However, we also had to have the money talk. We probably did not have it soon enough and at least part of that was because we really had been looking at tuition and not total COA. I fancy myself as being fairly well informed, but I certainly did not know everything.</p>
<p>“Is it really worthwhile to have a diploma from a brand name university? DD wants to study environmental science do conservation research for a living.”</p>
<p>Above quote from OP. I am missing the connection between environmental science and conservation and the NYU / NYC fixation. I can’t help but wonder why D of OP seems to want so badly to be in a big city if environmental studies is really her passion. It would seem more logical to actually be where there is more “environment” around. I also don’t see how working full time in a gap year would allow a teenager to save for NYU if most parents are unable to afford it. Environmental research is not the sort of career goal that would allow easy repayment of loans. It would likely mean a PhD and many years of accrued interest on loans. Are OP and D sure about this environmental, “tree hugger” route in the long term or is it more of a teen hobby, interest, personal ethic than a career goal?</p>
<p>Yes, the NYU publications! How glossy! How colorful! D had a friend who got into NYU and was stunned by the low amount of aid offered, had to pull out. Yes, she and her family could have thought it through a little better. But as D said-- they’re putting so much money into publications, the friend thought there must be plenty for scholarships. </p>
<p>William and Mary, and the state of Virginia, are the lifesavers in this story. OP’s D has a great education coming very soon.</p>
<p>As an FYI for DAD II…I believe the OP was hoping their daughter would get MERIT awards…not need based aid. Dad II…you were in the position of qualifying for need based aid largely because your daughter got accepted to a college where earners having incomes in the $100K range get need based aid. Had your daughter applied to the same schools the OP’s daughter applied to, your family contribution would have been in the $30,000 per year range…or so. NYU does not meet financial need for all students. At that school…YOU could have been on the hook for the full cost of attendance as well.</p>
<p>This OP is learning about the college process. There is nothing wrong with that. They will be in a better position with the next three kiddos.</p>
<p>The OP says they can fund instate costs at the VA public universities. There, fortunately, are lots of good choices in that mix.</p>
<p>At this point in time, the OPs daughter is in a waiting time…needs to wait and see how the other admissions and financial aid come out.</p>
<p>It is unfortunate OP is learning about the college process now. He should have started way before his kid’s senior year. OP had no business in applying ED at Columbia or NYU. His kid took someone’s ED slot. It is not that hard to figure out what he could afford to pay.</p>
<p>If a kid can work like a maniac for 12 months of a gap year, and save $12,000 after taxes and expenses, it still doesn’t make a material difference in a situation like this. $50,000 wouldn’t make a whole lot of difference.</p>
<p>The conventional wisdom is to apply where you’d like to go, and don’t let the sticker price dissuade you from applying. Fair enough. But the other side of that coin is that you may be admitted to some of these places, and nevertheless discover in April of 12th grade that they are not real options and it’s impossible for you to go. I empathize with the OP, and these very common situations underscore for me that the “apply where you like” message should usually be part of the same sentence with the caveat that “we have no idea whether we’ll be able to afford it”, from 9th or 10th grade on, in most cases. And the need for a financial safety, where we at least do know that we can afford it, should also be part of most conversations about the composition of The List.</p>
<p>Yes, students can back out of an ED acceptance if the finances don’t work out. BUT you would think the schools would have some kind if checks and balances system in place. Most ED schools require the Profile (both Columbia and NYU are profile schools…NYU added this for this year). Many schools have a priority deadline for Profile submission IF the student is applying for aid. If they do NOT apply for aid, the school would rightfully assume that none is needed.</p>
<p>Seems to me that these priority Profiles would show whether or not the school “met the need” of the families. If the family contribution was in excess of the cost of attending the school…then a release from the ED contract should be harder, in my opinion.</p>
<p>BUT that does not seem to be the case. Students applying ED are supposed to be doing so with the understanding that IF they are accepted they will attend. They should know the costs associated with attending the school…and assumptions about aid should be cast to the wind. That is my opinion, of course.</p>
<p>I think some people just don’t understand the process. As DeskPotato said, there is a lot of misinformation given out by counselors, or just a failure to communicate. I think the average person might not understand about ED, etc. The average poster/lurker on this site does, but most people don’t know about CC. I stumbled on it a year ago when my daughter (then in 8th grade) took the PSAT and I wondered what her score meant. This place has been a WEALTH of information for me and I don’t think most people have all of this information - and don’t know they don’t have it.</p>
<p>I am not the defender of Dad II, but at the beginning of this thread there was a lot of information that turned out to be differente than initially stated.</p>
<p>Your daughter might have starry-eyed dreams of living in NYC going to NYU but once the initial glamour wears off you are hit with the reality of NYC being quite an expensive place to live in even with museum and show discounts. Plus the city’s cultural offerings can be a procrastinator’s delight. Is your D’s schoolwork going to stay on track over the weekend when the sirens of Broadway are calling, or there’s a new exhibit opening at the MoMA (art museum)? Personally, I think NYU is a bit overrated, but that’s just my opinion. I myself am a born and bred New Yorker and I just can’t see the appeal of the school. </p>
<p>I am impressed that your D got offered $$$ at William and Mary. She must be an exceptional student. I also have the impression that NYU is notorious for not giving out money. With siblings waiting in the wings for their chances at college, however you may have press the case to your D for her at least starting out at W & M for a couple of years and then see how it goes. As far as name recognition, however, my NY friends and family have not only heard of William and Mary, but many of them are under the misconception that it is a hard to get into private university, and are shocked when I tell them it’s a state school. So reputation-wise from the NY metropolitan area it’s still no slouch of a place.</p>
<p>Vot123, The OP clarified earlier that her daughter is instate for William and Mary and is in the running for a scholarship but has not been awarded any money yet. She said that they can afford William and Mary’s instate tuition even if the daughter does not get any merit money from them ,but they feel they cannot afford NYU. Unfortunately, the daughter does not seem to be too crazy about William and Mary.I also believe William and Mary gives out little merit aid .</p>
<p>Vot, I think OP clarified, DD did not necessarly get $$$, just that being in-state W &M was affordable. Not to diminish this ability of this student.</p>
<p>It does not make me feel good at all. Actually, I get into this thread because I felt really bad for OP’s kid. The kid works hard and get stats good enough for Columbia but… … Sorry OP, NYU is one of the best known school for poor FA. You should have known that. </p>
<p>But, I would encourage you to have a good discussion with their FA office to see if they will offer more.</p>
<p>To asnwer your Q. From EFC point of view, that is for the whole family. Let’s say my EFC is $25K. I will pay that when only one kid is in school. When two kids going in the same year, the EFC is still $25K. That means you pay one school $12.5K each.</p>
<p>of course, this only apply to schools that meet 100% of your need. As far as I know, there are less than 10 schools in the whole USA that truely meet 100% of your needs without using loans.</p>
Columbia would have met the difference between our EFC and thier cost with grants, not loans. At least that is what they flaunt on the Columbia website. It’s difficult to get in, but they treat you very well if you do.</p>
<p>So you know this. Why not apply to several other like Columbia? </p>
<p>Also, like other have said, there are about a million girls in US that are studying environmental sciences. It is not known to be a highly paid field.</p>