<p>Virginia kids don’t always appreciate what they have in their backyards. I was one of them as I said earlier - I wanted UNC. My cousin was so devastated that she didn’t get into UNC that she turned down UVA for App State because she chose a school that had a high rate of transfer to UNC. She ended up absolutely loving App State and Boone and never considered transferring after her 1st year. She was what you all are referring to as a granola cruncher and had convinced herself that UVA was full of preppy snobs. She wouldn’t even consider W&M so I can only imagine what she thought of that. She too lived in northern Virginia. </p>
<p>She is also an example of things working out in a way we would have never expected. She says she ended up in the perfect school for her but it wasn’t at all what she wanted at the time.</p>
<p>HOW?! There are a number of you who keep saying that I should have known a number of things, and I am feeling incredibly stupid. But I didn’t know how many things I didn’t know until this week. </p>
<p>We WENT to the College Nights, we READ the books, we TALKED to our guidance counselor and our financial advisor, we TOOK the tours and ASKED lots of questions, we LOOKED at the websites and we THOUGHT we had a handle on this. All of the other first-timers in our social circle are in the same boat asking the same questions we are. </p>
<p>Were all of you born with this innate knowledge or do you spend all your time online or what? I only found CC because I Googled a very specific question and lucked into it. I do wish I had stumbled here sooner.</p>
<p>DadII,
when YOU first came to CC a long time ago, YOU did not know nearly as much THEN as you know NOW. I am not going to bring up all the things YOU did NOT know in 2007, because what is the point of doing so now? the past is the past. You were lucky you found the more experienced parents on CC , who were willing to offer you advise and guidance before you kids applied to college. The OP just found CC recently, and unfortunately for her, it was long after colleges were selected and apps were sent in. So it does not accomplish anything to chastise her NOW for what she did not know. She has already beaten her self up.
Cut the OP a break, whydontcha. </p>
<p>kp…there is no way you would have gotten the information about NYUs reputation for poor financial aid from someone AT NYU…or even from your high school counselors (who probably have limited knowledge). </p>
<p>NYU…like many other school…in fact MOST other schools…has limited resources for need based and merit aid awards. NYU does not meet full need for all of its accepted students. It is an expensive school. BU is similar.</p>
<p>Columbia does meet full need…but they determine your need…not you. So do all schools that meet full need. </p>
<p>At this point, I will reiterate what I’ve said before.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>What is done is done. The applications have been sent and now you need to wait for the rest of the results to come in.</p></li>
<li><p>If NYU is unaffordable, you must say no to their offer of admission…soon.</p></li>
<li><p>At this point, I would suggest no further discussions regarding college choices. Wait until all the acceptances/offers are in. THEN have the discussion about a matriculation choice.</p></li>
<li><p>And lastly…and I KNOW I’m in the minority here. William and Mary is an outstanding college for sure. BUT it is not the school for everyone. Williamsburg is not the place for everyone for four years of college. I know that it is an affordable instate option. But it just might not be your kid’s cup of tea. Yes, in four years, she could say she loved it…but she could also hate it and want to transfer after a semester. Kids DO transfer out of William and Mary…they do.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>There will be options for your daughter in the end. Have the discussion when there are options to be considered.</p>
<p>In the end, she will go somewhere to college…and if it doesn’t work out for all four years, she won’t be the first person to transfer.</p>
<p>I stand corrected on the W&M/$$$ point. (That’s what comes of not going through the entire thread before leaving an answer. Sorry all!)</p>
<p>Having gone through all this last year with our D, all I can say about the financial aid question is that the folks who run the tours and the Q&A sessions later all paint a slick, rosy picture of the aid that you MAY qualify for, they’ll cite stats of what percentages of their students are receiving financial aid, percentages of ordinary middle class or lower students who, in fact, get lots of help and so of COURSE even they are able to afford to send a kid to their expensive school. What they don’t tell you is that the aid may be all in the form of loans which somebody (either the parent or the student) will have to pay back, and that the aid may also include a work-study which then requires a chunk of time invested that might otherwise be used towards study or downtime (or sleep). In that case, no work, no “aid”. </p>
<p>In hindsight, H and I learned that you can’t count your finaid chickens before they’re hatched, especially if the source of the information is from finaid departments who come at you in full marketing mode. In the end, only one school offered our D more than a small symbolic amount (to sweeten the deal, since D waited until right before the deadline to finally choose, and most of the schools had sent their decisions relatively early and wanted her to commit sooner). And it was one of the ones she didn’t choose. Ah well.</p>
<p>“If the family contribution was in excess of the cost of attending the school…then a release from the ED contract should be harder, in my opinion.”</p>
<p>I would guess that schools don’t want it to be any harder than “No, thank you” when the aid is insufficient because they don’t want to be in the position of coercing attendance and then having to expel the student when the bill cannot be paid.</p>
<p>Forgot to mention this before, but you could have your daughter have her counselor call some colleges to see if they would accept a late application. I read a college admissions book once about a kid who was rejected at every school he applied to, and had to do this well into April. Doesn’t hurt to try. Maybe now that she realizes the situation, she’ll be open to applying to Fordham (for the NY experience), UVA (for a larger-town instate option), Barnard, maybe McGill for the environment, though I don’t know how they are with financial aid for internationals. Maybe even University of Denver, who would probably offer a lot of merit $$ for your daughter and has a great town. Yes, it is late, but you never know. It’s worth trying at least.</p>
<p>I came to College Confidential when my daughter was a sophomore, because my father pressed me to look into whether there were strategies to position our family better for need-based financial aid. He’d heard younger colleagues discussing this. I quickly learned that need-based aid wasn’t something we could anticipate receiving and began to use this site to develop a different strategy.</p>
<p>I am astonished at the lack of information and flat-out misinformation that was distributed to parents in my daughter’s high school. But some overwhelming majority of the kids go to the state schools and the hard facts about what it takes to get into the Ivies, or what it takes to pay for private schools, were deemed not very important to cover.</p>
<p>The good news is, now you know. You can plan better for the next kid.</p>
<p>A gap year isn’t the craziest idea in the world, even if your daughter can’t bear it. For someone with an interest in environmental science, there are probably some wonderful volunteer opportunities. This wouldn’t be a year spent earning money, but a year spent applying to a broader range of schools than she considered this time. </p>
<p>Maybe you could do some research on those types of programs and present those to her as options along with the schools she winds up accepted to in April.</p>
<p>OP, if she is not happy with her options at this point, your D should still check out colleges that offer the Environmental sciences she is interested in. My D applied on a whim to a small rolling admissions University just because the campus reminded her of the beautiful camp she attended every summer. We knew it was a good school, if not “top rated”. Grads have done some great things, and the school is known in this region. Grads go to some very good grad schools, and get jobs in their fields. The U. is growing and gaining in rankings, but that isn’t what drives them. Providing a solid education and creating strong citizens who contribute to society is the goal. We loved the very personal feel of the presentations by administrators. She was accepted, with a merit scholarship because she was toward the top of the student stats for the school. She got into American U, her first choice, and received great aid, but not enough for us to be comfortable. A couple more acceptances didn’t offer any better aid. She didn’t get into the Meets Need school she loved. She was accepted to a state school, but didn’t want to go there. At the last minutes of April vacation, we learned that the rolling admissions school offered her enough grant money to cover tuition along with the scholarship. Our cost would be just under the cost of the state school. She loves it, is so happy, wanted to be in a city but has been surprised to love the beautiful location and relaxed atmosphere and visits the nearby city when she wants to, wanted a large school but is now happy that the small school allows her opportunities without “red tape” issues, and she is thriving beyond our and her hopes. She even had her work-study money substantially increased for this semester and it was already more than she even needs for basic expenses. April 1 or so, a list is published online of schools still accepting apps, and whether fin. aid and housing is available. She doesn’t have to wait until then, but maybe could still cast a wide net. She should look for schools that offer honors programs, especially. Encourage her to consider schools she may not have heard of, but that sound like they could be “hidden gems”. Visit if possible, even if it means missing a little school to do so. Last year was such a roller-coaster, and last spring was challenging. I can’t believe how wonderfully everything worked out for my D. It will for yours too!</p>
<p>OP, when you think about it, none of the sources you got info from have any real incentive to give you these facts. Certainly NYU (on their website or on the tours) isn’t going to tell you this! They want as many applicants as possible so they can appear to be selective. Your kid’s high school wants to brag about where their students went (or they go to a school where there are tons of kids per guidance counselor and the counselors have not time OR limited knowledge – not uncommon in many public schools). So they aren’t going to say much about this. I think they also don’t like to pry into your financial information, they figure you are taking care of that. College is big business, and just like any other big business, they are trying to sell you something.</p>
<p>I know that when I listen to the college evenings our college counselor runs, I feel like they really gloss over some of this stuff. Our D2’s grade reps (parents) organized a parent get together where the parents with kids already in college wore special name tags and were available to answer questions for the “newbie” parents; the newbie parents said they learned more in that one night than any other method they had used so far. And I tell EVERYONE to come to CC.</p>
<p>A college education is just like any other purchase (except wwaaayyy more expensive). But if you only ask the car dealership about the car you are interested in, and only look at the car company’s website, you get only the shiny, happy information. At least you figured this out before your D is at a school, racking up massive loans with a major that won’t help her pay them off. </p>
<p>I did spend some time on CC for D1, and it was lucky I did. Have spent TONS more since then (obviously, from my number of posts), and have learned even more for D2. CC is one of the best sources you will find on this type of info. There certainly are a variety of opinions out here, but tons of great experience, too.</p>
<p>OP, we told our son he could only apply to schools he actually would be happy to attend. No “What the heck, I’ll apply to this one even though I don’t really want to go there.” We also told him in advance that Mom and Dad could afford to pay X per year, and any cost above that would be his responsibility – loans, part-time job to cover the difference, etc.</p>
<p>He’s been accepted to 7 schools (still waiting on 2, including the most expensive of the group). But, if he’d been accepted at only 1 of the schools to which he applied, he’d be satisfied…because he only applied to schools he would like to attend.</p>
<p>Your D has been accepted to some fine schools. Tell her how much you can afford to pay, and let her make the decision based on whether she wants to graduate in debt – understanding fully that it is HER debt. You have to be fair to her siblings, and fund your retirement. Good luck to you, and congratulations to your daughter.</p>
<p>I would question the intelligence of someone who put him or herself into an avoidable situation with crushing debt when said person had good and viable alternatives. There are unemployeed people as well as brilliant people from all (or nearly all) universities. Graduating with crushing debt or trying to guilt your family into taking on crushing debt does no one any favors. It is not a sign of intelligence or maturity.</p>
<p>The colleges at issue here are NOT comparing Harvard to Nowhere U or similar either.</p>
<p>I am in agreement with many here who would not pay for NYU with significant loans. William and Mary is an excellent comparable University which probably has an instate cost of around $25 K/year. NYU is around 55K/year. The difference in cost would be around $120,000 for four years. If NYU were to offer grants plus $5000/year in loans it would not be unreasonable for your daughter to take on a limited amount of loans to help pay for her education. NYU however has poor financial aid so I suspect the difference in FA is all or mostly in loans.
Certainly a large problem here is applying to a University which one cannot afford. It is unfortunate that most high schools have poor counseling services for college applications. There are only about 10-15 schools in the country including Columbia that have a no loans policy with no max parental income.
A lot of online research and or the reading of College Guide books is necessary these days in order to apply in a logical manner. A quick perusal of the US New Ultimate College Guide book from a few years back show that very few schools meet 100% of financial aid and that NYU was quite poor in this regard.<br>
We cannot always get what we want. As parents we need to provide for our retirement and the educational needs of all of our children in as equal way as we can.
It seems that your daughter has a few decent choices.
1: Go to W&M
2: Go to W&M than transfer to Columbia, Barnard, NYU or Fordham. I do not think that any of these schools are 100% FA for transfers but I have no idea what they would offer your daughter.
3: Go to JC for 1- 2 years than transfer to NYU, Fordham, Columbia or Barnard.
Saving by living at home for 2 years and going to JC could allow you to afford 2 expensive years.
4: Go to BU if she gets reasonable financial aid. BU however does not meet 100% of need but is better than NYU. Boston is a great city to be a college student and I would take it over NY any day.</p>
<p>Agree, Harvard signals smart, but it is appallin the number of people who went to HBS and are involved in major frauds. Years ago Wharton had many, but they arent in th news somuch.</p>
<p>NYU is famous nationally for students like the Olson twins, GAGA and James Franco. Whatever the reputation is on the east coast, it is not a guaranteed “oh, ah” school like Harvard, Stanford, Yale. For most pursuits, the reputation alone is likely not worth the money. I know that this will sound horribly naive - and it is - but outside the central east coast area W and M runs together in the mind with every other two name school (GW, F & M, GM). Again, in the rest of the country BC and BU are interchangeable (unless you are a hockey fan), Amherst and UMass Amherst are interchangeable. The quality of the experience and the education, no, but by reputation alone most people don’t know the difference.</p>