<p>Bwahaha! “Reliable and smart”? You mean like:</p>
<p>Jeffrey K. Skilling, former CEO of Enron
Boston Cardinal Bernard Law, forever associated with the Catholic church’s child-sex scandal
Eugene N. Plotkin, former Goldman Sachs employee indicted for insider trading</p>
<p>I’m not picking on Harvard (not really), because obviouisly any university will have its infamous graduates. To some extent, an ivy league degree may indeed work as a “smart stamp,” but let’s not get carried away…</p>
<p>Is it not proper, at a certain point, to wonder how flexible the KID should be in dealing with reality? I am not criticizing the OP’s kid here. But I am thinking of many familiar situations. The common refrain from 18 year olds is “I’m an adult now”. Well, OK. Part of adulthood is taking responsibility for your own outcomes – you can get a good education in many places, and you can goof off in many places. You can control your own emotional state, to some extent, and find ways to make yourself happy in situations that are less than ideal. How many adults have had to hang in with an undesirable work situation iin order to pay the mortgage – working to find a new job or make the situation better, yes, but in the meantime giviing yourself a peptalk in the car every morning and hanging in there.</p>
<p>Likewise, how many kids go to the school of their choice and end up unhappy?</p>
<p>College 101 is “oh, my, $50,000, I can’t pay that.” College 102 is “don’t be daunted – $50,000 is not usually really $50,000.” College 201 (taught in April of 12th grade) is, for many people, " uh – in your case it actually is $50,000. Alll the encouragement from the colleges – please apply, we will help with the cost" is a little like Ferrari dealerships telling 17 year old boys “come in, shop, pick out your favorite, and when you get to the cash register, we’ll reveal the true price”. When the true price is revealed to be $200,000, and the parents say it’s time to look at Honda Accords, of course the kid is upset. And it’s too bad, because a Honda Accord can get you where you need to go.</p>
<p>^^ like button! It is tough to have admissions letters in hand, but have to temper excitement until the aid packages come in late March. Even if you could swing your FAFSA EFC, who knows how the schools decided your “need” or how they decide how to deal with it. You just don’t know until it comes in the mail. You can do your due diligence ahead to decide if it might be affordable, but you can never really know.</p>
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<p>Ah…but the student will NOT be able to take out loans in excess of the Stafford loans UNLESS her parents are willing to cosign them. As a parent, I would NOT cosign loans for my kids. Bottom line…when you CO sign…they are YOUR loans too.</p>
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<p>I agree that there are some very excellent colleges out there…but the VAST MAJORITY of college graduates are not from those schools. Just do the math. AND there are plenty of RELIABLE and SMART students (two qualities highly sought after in the work place) who did NOT graduate from these schools.</p>
<p>Thumper, I agree. The ONLY exception I would make re co-signing if for kid in final year of school, where aid was insufficient. If the student has completed 3 years, transferring may be difficult and unwise. I think we should all think about that the aid/cost situation is likely to worsen not improve over the 4 years. I think others have mentioned the heartbreak of paying for say two years at Expensive Private U, then having to transfer to State U, getting diploma from State U, and still having oodles of debt.</p>
<p>Part of immaturiny is being desperately, single-mindedly focused on whatever milestone looms immediately in the foreground, and engaging in dismissive magical thinking about more remote concerns – college cost increases, siblings’ needs, parental retirement, the possibility of parents finding themselves out of work earlier than scheduled, grad school, weddings, down payments on houses, employment prospects and their limitations. The lesson for many of those with younger kids seems to be, tell the kid by spring of 11th what the parental contribution will be, tell the kid about Student Stafford loans (and their drawbacks), keep reminding the kid that he or she will ultimately be responsible for his or her own educational outcome and happiness anywhere, and say apply where you want, but if it ends up being more than we can afford, you will have to go somewhere you can afford. (Which may mean taking advantage of the first30 or 60 credits virtually free at a community college.)</p>
<p>If the family can contribute even $20,000 per year to higher ed for each kid, that kid is more fortunate than most people who have ever walked the earth. It is unfortunate that so many kids come through high school believing otherwise.</p>
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<p>Excellent point, fieldsports.</p>
<p>Me again! Back to be grouched at some more, but I have a thick skin and you all are clearly good with answers. So…</p>
<p>What are the REAL rules of Early Decision? Is there a really good thread or two you can direct me to? We were told to apply ED (and then ED II) to the two schools that my D was sure she wanted to attend. We did so, thinking that if she was accepted, that would end her college search anxiety early and we could move on with our lives. Then we discovered that finacial aid throws a monkey wrench into what seems like an uncomplicated issue. </p>
<p>After more searching here on CC, I have read that many of you feel students should only apply ED to those shcools they know they can afford without aid. So do you advise skipping ED altogether? Otherwise, it seems like only rich kids could use the ED option, or that everyone would apply ED --and subsequently be obligated to – thier financial safety school. </p>
<p>I’d like to figure this out and get it right with Kid#2. Thanks in advance for the education!</p>
<p>“So do you advise skipping ED altogether?”</p>
<p>Yes. Many schools have EA or rolling options that can still provide early relief for anxiety.</p>
<p>^ I’d have to agree unless you are low income with no exotic tax issues, looking at a school that meets full need. In that case ED may make perfect sense. At least there is an out if the family cannot afford the school.</p>
<p>Here’s a good (and recent) one to start with: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1291567-did-you-bail-out-early-decision-offer.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1291567-did-you-bail-out-early-decision-offer.html</a></p>
<p>I think applying to Columbia ED was a good idea, since it was a bit of a reach for your daughter, therefore justifying the need for an ED admissions boost, and the school meets full need.</p>
<p>However, if you are expecting merit money from any school, applying ED is not in your child’s best interests, since it eliminates the ability to compare merit packages. This is the case with NYU, as they do NOT meet full need, and you would have needed some merit to be able to afford it. Also, there is some speculation that ED students receive less merit than RD students, as admissions uses scholarships to get top students to attend their schools, and don’t want to waste it on students who have already committed to attend. </p>
<p>Honestly, the ED pool really isn’t all that big, and the boost isn’t significant enough to justify applying to a school you aren’t certain that you can afford. I’ve heard that you can have admissions give you an early read on financial aid $$ before applying ED, or you could use the financial aid calculator that I believe all schools now must have on their website to give you an idea of whether you will be able to afford the school. If, after applying ED, the college gives you less aid than your demonstrated need, you may bail out.</p>
<p>For your other children, it may be a better good to skip the ED option, except for the few schools that match full need. EA, SCEA, and rolling admissions still eliminates some anxiety. Having that first acceptance early on seems to ease a senior’s stress, even if it is to a safety school. Also, really try to finalize their list of school before deadlines, with a range of safeties, matches, reaches, and financial safeties (in-state schools). Spending a little extra $$ on a few additional apps could be well-worth it, as your child may change their mind come spring.</p>
<p>Here’re my two cents on early decision. If a student is from a very wealthy family who is ready to write the check and the child only wants to go to ( fillin favorite school here), then ED is a great choice. Otherwise, I think ED is a bad choice and neither of my kids did ED. </p>
<p>To me, everybody else deserves to be able to weigh all of the options available. Young people change their minds. Young people don’t really understand debt or financial aid. In their ideal worlds, they often figure that it will all work out and they must go to the best school that accepts them. To me, the small boost ED may give is not worth the financial risks involved. </p>
<p>The other thing is that costs have skyrocketed since we all were in school. Even wealthy families–let’s say those in the top five percent making more than $250k-- a year are looking at these numbers for tuition and saying it just isn’t worth it.</p>
<p>The other thing is that when a talented student applies ED, in their little hearts, they really think they will be accepted and may ignore their other applications. When they get rejected, they then have to scramble. </p>
<p>I really do not like ED.</p>
<p>That was perhaps more than two cents worth…</p>
<p>“I’d like to figure this out and get it right with Kid#2. Thanks in advance for the education!”</p>
<p>The rules have evolved in the past five years. It used to be that if you applied ED, you were committed. Period. It was either assumed you’d pay full freight, or you’d accept what they offered. And, yes, it meant that ED was overpopulated (as it still is) with wealthy folks, legacies, and athletes who were assured of athletic scholarships. (The good thing about that, by the way, is that schools could then figure out how best to use the bulk of their financial aid budgets in the RD rounds, without fear of running over budget.) Some schools (Columbia was an example), even posted on their websites that if you turned down an ED admission for financial reasons, they would “release” you to apply only to “less competitive schools” (costing less, such as state schools, etc.) In theory, (no one seems to know for sure) schools may have shared list of applicants who did so, if not formally, then informally.</p>
<p>More recently, with the wider acceptance of common applications, ED came to mean that one committed to attend if it could be afforded. The purpose was to avoid applicants gaming the system by applying ED, and then comparing financial offers. The schools really wanted to provide an advantage of students who actually wanted to be at that school (and, in theory, only that school), and would, again in theory, bend over backwards to work with families to make it affordable. I have worked with several families who received initial ED financial aid offers from schools that looked unaffordable, but when new FASFAs were available and they worked with the ED school, they managed to make it work. But the idea was still to prevent folks from comparing offers. The school needed to be affordable, but not necessarily the best buy.</p>
<p>In short, the honorable thing to do is, if you want to compare financial aid offers, don’t apply ED. (EA is fine.)</p>
<p>What NYU says on its site vis-a-vis early decision is what applies everywhere, except that I changed their “whereas” to a “whereby” (copyediting fail for NYU!):</p>
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You don’t apply to ED only if you are sure you want to attend; you apply ED to a school if it is your first choice. Many people don’t do it because they don’t have an unquestioned first choice. </p>
<p>And then there’s the financial agreement. Again, from NYU: </p>
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<p>“Who wouldn’t want to compare packages?”, you might ask. Yes, families who know they are full-pay (“rich kids,” if you will) MAY not care about that. Others who have substantial need (as quantified by FAFSA estimates and the like) may also be okay with taking their chances. My D’s best friend got in ED to Northwestern with a nice financial aid package; she comes from a poor family and is on the hook for only $3,000 (she’s also a top candidate). Those who are somewhere in the middle may wish to shop around. It’s not possible to tell precisely how a school is going to come down on the question of aid, but some schools have aid calculators and there is copious data on how they disburse their monies (I believe there’s information in each school’s data set; there are also federal and private website sources of information that provide a picture).</p>
<p>As mentioned throughout this thread, if you do not think a financial aid package is affordable you can be let out of the agreement. Others can chime in regarding the relative ease of this, but a school can’t make you take out, say, $40K per year in loans if that’s what it takes to finance attendance at a school. </p>
<p>Early Action (EA), by contrast, is not binding; it gives you the advantage of an early decision without the contractual elements of an ED application. My D applied EA to three schools and got merit information from two of them along with the acceptance (in the other case, financial aid/merit information came a few weeks after the acceptance).</p>
<p>ED works if you can pay full freight, or if the school is crystal clear about what its financial aid policy is (full need, no loans preferably) and you have straightforward finances. If you are self employed, have outside income, have rental property, a ranch or anything like that you really can’t do ED. </p>
<p>Luckily some schools have EA which is not binding.</p>
<p>Personally I’m not a fan of ED, not only for the financial issues, but also because I really don’t think students should be tied down to a single choice in October of senior year. Both my kids really agonized in April between good choices that would have offered very different experiences, and I think the thought process that they brought to that decision making really helped them mature and think about what they really wanted out of college.</p>
<p>We agreed that an early acceptance would be a nice thing for each of our kiddos. BOTH applied to two EA schools and one school with rolling admissions. They had all three acceptances before the Christmas vacation. EA and Rolling admissions acceptances are not binding and a matriculation decision does not have to be made until the May 1st dat</p>
<p>These early acceptances took the “edge” off of the whole college acceptance thing for our kids. They KNEW they were going someplace they liked. We did NOT allow them to apply to any colleges that they would not have been very happy to attend. </p>
<p>We did not even consider ED options. They weren’t really available for DSs major, and DD had two EA schools she loved and a rolling school she loved. </p>
<p>So much can change between December and May of high school senior year. We didn’t WANT our kids making a decision in December about their final college choice. As it happened, DD DID enroll at one of her EA schools. BUT DS did not. He actually enrolled at the school that gave him his acceptance decision LAST (mid April). It was his favorite school and coincidentally gave him the most aid. We would NEVER have known that if he had had to withdraw that application due to an ED acceptance.</p>
<p>If finances are NOT a consideration at all…then ED is ok, I suppose…if your student really has a very strong preference for one school above all.</p>
<p>GREAT info, all. Thanks so much.</p>
<p>“So do you advise skipping ED altogether?”</p>
<p>"Yes. Many schools have EA or rolling options that can still provide early relief for anxiety. "</p>
<p>I completely agree with Hanna. In addition, for most middle class parents, the FIRST place to look when evaluating ANY college - be it for ED, EA or regular admission - should be their FA calculator, which all colleges are now required to have. That way a family can figure out if the college is even worth applying to.
I also think that applying ED is a waste of time for all but those families who can easily pay full freight.</p>
<p>And while a little off topic…one of the best and most repeated comment you will see here is “LOVE THY SAFETY”. Many folks recommend building the college application list from the bottom up…find a safety school or two that your student would love to attend, and that is affordable. Then add to that list…the match and reach schools. To be honest, for many students, finding a safety school they love is harder than finding a reach school.</p>
<p>We did not even consider ED at our house. D was allowed to apply SCEA which lets students compare packages. Of course, those schools offer very good need based aid, no merit aid, and are very hard to get in to. I did tell her, though, “if you get in to Stanford you can go.” She didn’t. We used EA to have some decisions under her belt. The school that she believed to be her favorite offers only ED, EDII and RD. She applied RD and simply stated in the “What else would you like us to know?” section that she would have applied ED if she didn’t need FA. She also demonstrated interest in other ways so that any potential RD disadvantage would be neutralized.
I think that the place that middle income kids are most disadvantaged is with the small, highly selective non-HYPS schools like Pomona, Bowdoin, Williams, Carleton, etc. where there are very few slots and early committed interest and ability to pay are especially valuable.</p>