Hard decision...

Parents Forum
1

<p>I know I'm getting a B.S in Biology (start classes June 11th). I am going to eventually teach High School Biology.</p>

<p>Here's the situation:</p>

<p>Should I go for a B.S and then begin teaching while also earning the Masters in Biology so that I will be on the pay scale and also be able to retire 2 years younger? Or should I just stay in college for 6 years and then begin teaching?</p>

<p>I have no clue what would be best...I know that if I teach with a B.S and then begin my Masters program that the school system will pay for the degree...</p>

2

<p>You're thinking too far ahead. Start your BS, then go to your school's career center and discuss with them how to go about getting licensed to teach high school. This is not an unusual question you're asking, and they will either know or will find out for you.</p>

3

<p>That isn't my concern...I know how the licensing goes...</p>

<p>But my real question is: Would it be better to begin teaching with a B.S to get started on the pay scale ladder and so that I can retire 2 years earlier. I would then starts my Masters degree and teach simultaneously....</p>

<p>Or, would it be best to go to college for 6 years and gain a Masters in Biology and then begin teaching?</p>

4

<p>I don't know the answer to your question but here's another question - is it possible that if you become a teacher with a BS degree your employer might pay for you to get your Masters degree? I know some private companies do this but I don't know about public schools in general. If they do, you not only start working sooner but you might not have to pay for the Masters yourself. </p>

<p>OTOH - you have the rest of your life to work so why the rush? You likely won't retire at a particular age - you'll retire when you feel like it (or are out of a job).</p>

5

<p>Two suggestions here. First, ask the teachers union rep all your retirement questions, or contact your state dept of ed's teacher retirement system for advice. They can't really give you a personal answer, but can lay out all the math for you. </p>

<p>Second, consider below:</p>

<p>My experience was that I completed my masters degree and certification, with all the student teaching, before I ever set foot in my own classroom. At that time, I was around 40 years old with 3 kids at home (youngest in preschool).</p>

<p>All the other new teachers hired alongside me that year were young, single and working on their masters degrees in the evenings at the same time they had their first year as teachers, trying to keep hold of the curriculum, the studeents, and undergo teaching evaluations by principals several times a year in their classrooms. They also had to write papers and take exams for their grad school courses.</p>

<p>I would say we were equally burdened/busy after school. They had to take off at 3 p.m. and travel an hour (on icy rural roads) to get to their classes. They had weekends full of projects assigned by their teacher college classes, PLUS the weekend preparation work that all teachers do. In H.s., you'd have papers to grade, parent-teacher conferences to prepare, etc. </p>

<p>I felt sorry for them because they had to take off immediately from school to go to their grad school, came home late at night, and woke up at 6 a.m. to begin teaching the next day. On the other hand, they had no dinner to prepare, children to feed and help w/ homework, spouse who had to report his day...all that. At the time, I felt they had it much harder than I did.</p>

<p>They felt sorry for me (married household, 3 kids) and I felt sorry for them (single w/ grad school responsibilities) as we struggled through the first year as teachers. As we used to say, for a single girl the housework means "wiping the lipstick off the milk carton." </p>

<p>I had the luxury of my H's income to pay for the grad schooling. We had to take out a big loan to pay for a year of live-in nanny which cost 3x the tuition. All of that money was paid back to us a year after I began teaching, however.</p>

<p>I liiked the feeling of having all my coursework done. No extra assignments, no evening courses, and most importantly I could concentrate on doing a GREAT job preparing my classes. It took 3 years to gain tenure and we were observed frequently during the year, so I never wanted to give a bad or tired lesson.</p>

<p>My thought is: if you have someone to support you (with housing, or parental tuition help), just get it all out of the way educationally before you begin to teach a real classroom. That first year of teaching is very hard and stressful.
Also, you'd be starting with the benefit of the coursework lessons and readings in pedagogy from the grad school classes. </p>

<p>You'll be that much older than your h.s. students.</p>

<p>The ONLY reason to begin right after college and do the masters simultaneously is the money they pay to "get" you your masters. But you
pay in blood, sweat and tears to do that double-load of work. No social life,
either, at a time when you might really like to meet someone special.</p>

<p>That's my take on it. YMMV. I'd be curious to hear from a teacher who did
it the other way.</p>

<p>I'd also say decide it according to your needs as a young person, not whether or not you'll retire 2 years earlier.</p>

6

<p>Some school districts would rather hire you without the MS because you will be cheaper for a year or two. Do some research here. School of education should be able to help with employment statistics.</p>

7

<p>^That is the BIGGEST lie I've heard for the past year...ask any secondary teacher...</p>

<p>School systems do not care that you start with a Masters' its no money out of their pockets....the state pays your salary, not the school system itself. They are glad to say "25% of teachers here have Ph D's, 52% have a Masters degree and 23% have Bachelor's degrees"</p>

<p>The more education their teachers have the better that school looks...</p>

<p>But that is definitely the biggest myth everyone who isn't in education keep telling me. I've talked to probably 20 teachers and several higher ups about this myth and its exactly that....a myth.</p>

<p>A higher degree is not detrimental...</p>

<ul>
<li>paying3tuitions....I have the exact feelings as that...and thats more than likely what I will do...all of my current teachers strongly agree with everything you just mentioned...</li>
</ul>

8

<p>mythmom would not lie.</p>

<p>Practices may differ from one area to another.</p>

9

<p>Educational practices do not differ that much...</p>

<p>school systems themselves dont pay their teachers, the state does. And a higher degree is not detrimental in being hired as a teacher...its very often beneficial.</p>

10

<p>I have several friends and relatives who did the MA and taught simultaneously. Really stressful. Different states and districts will have different criteria, so you might want to speak to teachers in the area you want to eventually work in. Chemistry and Physics are more in demand than Biology, so you might want to try to be certified in those as well. In New York, the school systems definitely pay their teachers and New York City is on a lower pay scale than the wealthier suburbs.</p>

11

<p>It would be nice if what you said about state funding were true. In some states it is. In my state it most definitely is not. Only a very small percentage of any school district's budget is state funded.</p>

12

<p>FHST8, here in California school districts pay their own teachers. That being said, the more affluent districts do indeed appreciate additional education and are willing to pay extra for it. They also appreciate experience, and many (ours for example) will pay extra for that as well. Each district negotiates with its own chapter of the teachers' union for things like pay scale and benefits.</p>

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<p>FHST8, If the state paid the teachers' salaries, they would all be the same for each school for each pay level!!! In other words, if there was a teachers strike at one school, it would happen at EVERY school in the state.</p>

<p>The school district pays for much more than you realize. That's why they have to ask for an increase in property taxes from their taxpayers in the particular school district.</p>

<p>Don't think that the state pays for much when it comes to building new schools either. At least, in Illinois, the state doesn't do much.</p>

14

<p>Regarding your reply to mythmom in post #7, you're wrong. I am making an assumption that you are in the state of Georgia since you will be attending Valdosta State College. At one point in my career I was the Finance Director for the local BOE- in the state of Georgia.</p>

<p>In Georgia, the school systems do receive an amount of money for teacher salaries from the state. Bluntly, there are not many people who would work for what the state provides. Most (not all, but most) of the local BOEs have to "supplement" what the state provides. These suppplements come from local resources, namely property taxes. The amount of the supplement varies from county to county. In many of the BOEs, there are separate pay scales based on the level of education - one for a bachelors degree, one for a masters degree and one for Phds. Teachers where I am at also get an additional salary boost for obtaining national certification.</p>

<p>So, yes the school system will save some money if you have a bachelor's degree.</p>

15

<p>Agree with mythmom. It may vary district to district, state to state but coming from a family with several teachers...'round our neck of the woods, they hire folks that are either already connected (because they are returning to the district for some reason or another --either as a past student, wife of a current teacher/coach, former returning teacher, mom whose been subbing), then they hire the bachelors, and lastly they hire new to town with advanced degrees. I pretty much love 90% of the teachers in our district so I can't argue with their method or madness. If you've already targeted a school district, talk to some teachers and find out what the political scene is like regarding hiring and cross the bridge - to MA or not to MA immediately - when you get there. Frankly I can't believe you'd make decisions on whether you'd get to retire two years earlier or not -- who knows what future union negotiations and the like will hold for teachers that may not even be a perk for you a couple decades down the road. Also there is a certain richness and perspective that working on an advanced degree either while working full time or working a year or two before starting brings to the table.</p>

16

<p>Districts do vary
Ive been on hiring committees for teachers and principals and this is my experience.
Quite a few 2nd career teachers- May have masters degree- ( indeed our state requires an education degree to teach in public school- if you already have a BA even a phd, you still have to get an education degree)
I think a degree in area in which you are going to teach- then the pedagogy, makes for better educators.
However - my daughter had some teachers in private that hadn't an education degree & multiple degrees in education doesn't necessarily mean you know your subject ;)
I also have observed that within the hiring committees, while most had attained a master degree, it also in many cases had been part of continuing education and over a lengthy process- often from state schools which had a local presence in the community colleges to make the logistics easier.
When these teachers were faced with someone who had more education, at a more prestigious school, and who obviously had a great deal of experience ( writing curriculum at Bank Street for example), their inclination was not to hire, and my impression was that they were intimidated and were more concerned about someone coming in and " giving advice".</p>

<p>I wouldn't plan to get your grad degree first- I would see what state requirements are- get the bio degree and then the additional courses for certification. That will get you in the work force as soon as possible- you won't know if you are really cut out for it until you do it.</p>

<p>( our district has collective bargaining and many things had to be cut from the classroom a few years ago, when the local union negotiated increases in salaries beyond what the state/local/levy budget allowed)</p>

17

<p>I hope that somewhere along the line in your education you learn to be a bit more courteous to people you've asked help of than to make a retort to them like:
[quote]
^ That is the BIGGEST lie I've heard

[/quote]
</p>

18

<p>I am currently finishing up an undergraduate degree in Colorado and will be pursuing my master's. I was told, but local school districts AND college counseling said the same thing mythmom did -- schools districts would rather hire someone with a BA or BS than a master's because it is cheaper. It might not be what you want to hear -- but is the reality, especially in district where money is particularly tight. In Colorado, the state does not pay the teacher's salary. Nor is that the case in Kansas, Indiana or Tennessee -- the other states we have lived.</p>

19

<p>In ohio, each district pays its own teachers and the reality is that certain districts pay a lot more than others. Our district alwaysis with in the top 3 or 4 in the state, and it helps us attract and retain the best teachers.</p>

20

<p>I agree with some others here who think you will be more employable with the BS. What impetus would they have to hire a MS at a higher rate to do the same job? Likewise, I know experienced teachers trying to re-enter the profession who can't get a job because they are at too high/expensive of a level. And their unions "help" them by not allowing them to work at a lower step than they qualify for...so they end up not working at all.</p>