<p>I am not sure if you realize but 26 and 32 are at the beginning and end of the same first SD interval. [ACT</a> Scores as Percentiles - *Linear Learning Co.](<a href=“http://linearlearning.net/act-scores-as-percentiles.html]ACT”>iPage)</p>
<p>Going from one end of the interval to the other means a substantial achievement. However, I believe it would be statistically rare if she had a 25.5 or 25.75 and went to a 32 or 32.25 (not 31.5 or 31.75)</p>
<p>I do not see the point your are trying to make? With a 26 score my daughter by your standards would not be elite college material because her score would have been to low. </p>
<p>My point is her intellectual ability did not change in five months. She just learned the strategy of the test. She is the same student she was five month earlier. Therefore I believe once a student scores a 1900 they can handle the work. Many elite colleges feel the same way, that is why many athletes are recruited with sub 2000 scores. </p>
<p>We can agree to disagree on this matter.</p>
<p>FWIW</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.act.org/newsroom/data/2012/pdf/profile/National2012.pdf[/url]”>http://www.act.org/newsroom/data/2012/pdf/profile/National2012.pdf</a></p>
<p>standard deviation is a 5.3 </p>
<p>My daughter went from a 26 (actual score) to a 31.75 (actual score). This is greater than one standard deviation.</p>
<p>I should have included the average ACT score in the information above.</p>
<p>Average ACT 21.1</p>
<p>It is certainly possible to have large gains in standardized test scores. My daughter’s scores in English 31 -> 36 and Math 28 -> 35. She did not take a prep class, just practiced on her own.
Colleges will lower their standards for recruited athletes in certain sports, but there are many high scoring Hispanics. Make sure your student clearly communicates any special talent/interest/accomplishments.</p>
<p>In other words 26 and 32 are the boundaries of the 1st SD, which is what I was saying:</p>
<p>21.1 + 5.3 = 26.4 ~ 26 is the top of the mean/ bottom of the 1st SD.</p>
<p>26.4 + 5.3 = 31.7 ~ 32 is the top of the 1st SD/ bottom of the 2nd SD.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There are serious limitations after age 13. For example, it is almost impossible to improve more than 3 standard deviations after age 13. Both 28 & 31 were 1st SD scores. Your child was no slouch to begin with.</p>
<p>Perazziman, I do have her ACT scores from when she was 13.
English 23 -> 36
Math 19 -> 35
Reading 25 -> 36
Science 19 -> 31</p>
<p>^Since 21.1 is the mean (equivalent to SAT 1500) and she scored 21.5, that puts her between normal and 1SD at age 13. That would be the interval between 1500 and 1800 on the SAT. So, no slouch to begin with, better than the average high school senior at age 13. :)</p>
<p>To score above 32 she had to move across two standard deviations in 4 years. Most kids improve about one SD after age 13. So, she continued to improve faster than most kids in high school. It is possible to improve this fast but not too much faster than this, after age 13, which is why I said, </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Perazziman,</p>
<p>I am convinced that scoring a 35/36 is not that difficult considering the improvement in my daughters score in such a short period (no tutor). Many of the high scorers (34-36) tested at a young age and prepped over a longer period of time with a paid tutor.</p>
<p>Only one percent score 34 or higher on the ACT and even fewer Hispanics so I wouldn’t say it’s “not that difficult.” Students who take the ACT and/or SAT at 12 and 13 years old do so as part of gifted talent searches like Duke TIP, CTY or EPGY. Those students have the potential to score very high with some practice, but I would think all students benefit from practice. </p>
<p>My daughter waited until end of junior year and october of senior year to test. For my younger kids, I would move up the timetable and ask them to take it early in junior year as practice for the PSAT. But all kids are different and they may not be ready then.</p>
<p>Yolie3000, best of luck to your son on his SAT and acceptances in the spring!</p>
<p>PerAspera,</p>
<p>My opinion is a result of the experience I have had with my children. There is no doubt in my mind that my daughter could score a 34 had she been exposed to the test at 13 and had the proper test prep.</p>
<p>@ smiley Thanks!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Let us know when you find an example, of a kid who took the test in 7th grade (age 13) and improved more than 3 SDs with or without proper test prep. I have been looking for such examples and have not found one yet on cc.</p>
<p>Hm,</p>
<p>My son took the SAT in 7th grade after watching some math SAT videos. His scores were 700M, 610 CR, and 540W for a total of 1850.</p>
<p>He took it again in 8th grade without studying and got an 800M, 640CR, and 680W, or a 2120.</p>
<p>He took it one last time as a junior without studying (at least I can’t recall that he did; I do specifically remember borrowing those math videos from a friend when he was in 7th grade) and got 800M, 790CR, and 730 W (down from a 78 on the PSAT), for a 2320.</p>
<p>Not sure what the SD is on that.</p>
<p>Edited: I think my son did some studying for CR at some point, but I don’t remember what it consisted of.</p>
<p>Smileygirl, we’re saying the same thing. It is possible to greatly improve scores through practice. Even taking a test at 12 and 13 is helpful because the kids get used to the format, improves their confidence, etc. I was quibbling with your statement that it’s ‘not that difficult’ to achieve the highest scores, but I would say instead it’s not that common. </p>
<p>I believe your daughter scored a 32? That is an excellent score – at the 99th percentile in my state for all students and I bet it’s 99th percentile for Hispanics nationally.</p>
<p>Perazziman, thanks for your analysis. It’s very interesting. I think my daughter did improve 3 SD in math and looks like sjdorlo’s son improved 3 SD in writing??? Part of the issue is that bright kids are already scoring high in middle school so they can only make the 3SD gains if they’re very lopsided in strengths.</p>
<p>I agree with PerAspera. </p>
<p>Perazziman,</p>
<p>You mentioned in an earlier post that your son improved 4 std dev. You do not have to look too far from home for the information you are requesting of me.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1366406-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-10-a-25.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1366406-race-college-admission-faq-discussion-10-a-25.html</a></p>
<p>^There are always exceptions, that is why I said it is almost impossible. Yes son is a borderline example of 4 SD improvement. This is why I am so interested in this subject and have been searching for other kids like him, to see how they do. I have not found any so far. The 1 SD is what most studies suggest is possible and mentioned in the book Mismatch by Richard Sander.</p>
<p>Usually, the huge swings occur in cases where kids speak a foreign language and are not familiar with the test language. For example, Xiggi and Silverturtle could take the SAT in Sanskrit today and do very poorly. Then, they can rapidly learn Sanskrit and do exceptionally well. Similarly, a truly underperforming school that does not teach to potential can create kids with poor skills. In my son’s case, the schools were over 80%+ URM mostly Hispanic, 10% white and 70%+ economically disadvantaged. As you know he was there because his mom is Hispanic and we lived in a Hispanic neighborhood. Then, son moved to a regular school when he started high school. This is when the change took place. Unfortunately poor Hispanics and Blacks are not given these opportunities, in my opinion because of barriers created by socieity.</p>
<p>sbjdorlo, 1830 is the 1st SD. So he was already +1 SD in 7th grade. 2150 is the beginning of the +2nd SD, so he clearly improved at least one 1 SD. However, the SAT is unable to identify greater improvements. So it does not mean he did not improve more. In fact, since he placed so highly in math competitions it demonstrates he reached the 1/1000 or 3rd SD before starting college. The 3rd SD is an academic star, So, definately someone MIT and other top unis would be interested in. :)</p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation</a></p>
<p>I agree large gains in test scores are seen in the two examples you provided, language and relocation.</p>
<p>Underserved high schools are in poor areas. Very rarely do these families inherit enough money to afford a home in an area with a high performing high school (many NMSF) as your son’s. Therefore this information will be virtually nonexistent.</p>
<p>As for my daughter, I will never know what her score would have been at age 13. I do know she raised her score from a 26 to a 32 within 5 mos with very little test prep. There is no doubt in my mind that she could score a 34. Scoring a 34 is still less than 2 std dev. </p>
<p>I agree it would be impossible for her to score greater than 3 std dev which would be a score of 42.</p>