<p>Harvard alums like to delude themselves by saying that they don't bash Yale and Princeton. It is a common practice at Harvard. Even today,on the first day of prefrosh hosting (the biggest tour so to speak), the crimson runs an article entitled : Why you should come to Harvard, what you should do this weekend, and why Yale sucks</p>
<p>I didn't find a similar article in the yaledailynews during this year's prefrosh days there. I think Byerly et al. have selective memories</p>
<p>No belly dancers, however! And don't you recognize a parody when you see it? Even self parody?</p>
<p>It's all parody Byerly, that's the point. When a Yalie or Princetonite says it, you take it seriously, but its just fun rivalry. No one really thinks that Harvard or Yale or Princeton Sucks. Its just that for some reason, people like you loose that perspective and think it is indicative of something it is not.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>You make a claim as to the attitude of the school as a whole based on a couple comments from a tour guide? Talk about generalizing from too small a sample...<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Not guilty and you know it. Your selective quoting conveniently omitted my very next sentence:</p>
<p>"...I'm not talking about the every day thoughts of the kids, but what is presented on the tours as the school's face to the public."</p>
<h2>Hi all, so I'm sorry to invade the pton boards, especially since it seems this was originally a question on H/P. However, it seems the issue of "school rivalry" between Harvard and Yale has come up, with some saying it's entirely Yale's, and that Harvard student's not needing to wear "Yale Sucks!" shirts proves Harvard's superiority as a school. Well. It seems Cantabs not only wear "Yale Sucks!" shirts, but more offensive ones than that as well. Here is an article from The Crimson on the more offensive shirts that some of the Cantabs had been wearing to the game. </h2>
<p>"Dartboard is all about school spirit, but she would prefer not to ride into New Haven with F*** Yale across her chest. "</p>
<p>"Some of the t-shirts out there are also just plain arrogant. Dartboard almost bought one when she read the text: What do Harvard and Yale students have in common? They both got into Yale! The kid next to Dartboard mumbled, Well I sure didnt. Several others confessed that they too had received Yale rejection letters. Is the t-shirt meant to make us appear conceited, or sarcastic?"</p>
<h2>"A shirt that carries a similar message reads, Well kick your ass today and fire your ass tomorrow, bearing a melancholy bulldog with a sign Will bark for fud. Even the most die-hard Harvard fan cannot deny that Eli does pretty well in the real world, for example, in running for president. As much fun as it is to believe that we are in essence, better than our counterparts at Yale simply by virtue of our being Harvard students, these shirts make us look delusional, even bitter."</h2>
<p>The Harvard / Yale rivalry not only exists today, as shown above, but it has for ages. Even in the classic "Ten Thousand Men of Harvard," authored by a member of the class of 1918, are the verses " Ten Thousand Men of Harvard want victory today / For they know that oer old Eli / Fair Harvard holds sway. / So then well conquer all old Elis men..." In 1884 one Crimson editorial called Yale its "sister college," adding parenthetically "(if we may call such masculine rival as Yale by this term)" <a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=283964%5B/url%5D">http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=283964</a> It seems very smug then, as well as historically inaccurate, for Cantabs to now deny a Crimson / Bulldog rivalry so as to make themselves seem unequivocally superior to Yale (and of course, to every other school in the nation - but that not even needs saying). </p>
<p>I don't think Princeton has really been included in this rivalry, and some princetonians agree. <a href="http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/11/22/opinion/13905.shtml%5B/url%5D">http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/11/22/opinion/13905.shtml</a>
That being said, I don't think the existence of a rivalry proves that those outside of it don't have institutional parity, or something like that. I'd have to be delusional if I thought that because it was a HY rivalry, not an HYP rivalry, that ergo Princeton was not a comparable school to Yale and Harvard. Yalie though I may soon be, I still think Princeton has the best undergrad academics around (or at least makes it easiest for students to have an astounding undergrad education).</p>
<p>In any event, I am well aware of the famous "Harvard indifference," but I'd think it revisionism to include their sentiments on Yale under this umbrella. No, I don't think that all Cantabs do is wander around Cambridge constantly thinking about how smelly Yalies are, nor do I believe that Yalies do the same about Cantabs. But I do believe that on the day of the Game, Harvard goes out hoping its team will kick the living snot out of Yale's (and they've been doing it quite well lately), not only so that Harvard will win, but so that they'll have the glee of beating Yale. Yale wants a Harvard loss just as badly (maybe more, after 5 losses.... urgh). And that's what a rivalry is.</p>
<p>All the best,
DMW</p>
<p>
[quote]
This thread is now officially closed
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Fine by me ! ! :) ;)</p>
<p>According to the following data</p>
<p>** H >>> Y >> S > P > Duke > Penn ** - This looks very similar to USNews ranking to me</p>
<p>not really. u.s. news has harvard and princeton tied at #1, yale at #3, penn at #4, and duke and stanford tied at #5.</p>
<p>Clearly, Harvard Law School and USNews use different criteria.</p>
<p>If you used Harvard Law admissions to rank undergraduate schools, you could get some pretty unexpected results. For example:</p>
<p>BYU > UVa > Northwestern > Univ.Chicago > MIT > CalTech</p>
<p>:( yeah i can see that, but looks like top grad schools like law and business take heavily from top colleges</p>
<p>Harvard (232)
Yale (126)
Stanford (91)
Princeton (65)
Duke(55)
.
.
.
BYU(24)</p>
<p>A</a> better study of the country's top feeder schools.</p>
<p>Top 5:
Harvard: 21.49%
Yale: 17.96%
Princeton: 15.78%
Stanford: 10.7%
Williams: 9.06%</p>
<p>Im so enlightened now, no wonder people say HYP is worth the high price tag ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Im so enlightened now, no wonder people say HYP is worth the high price tag
[/quote]
</p>
<p>But is it the quality of the institutions or the quality of the students that produces such high admissions rates?</p>
<p>The relatively low number of Princeton graduates attending post-grad institutions (HLS, for example) is not evidence of a Princeton's deficit in sending its graduates to grad and professional schools, but rather because more Princeton graduates choose to enter the workforce (771 of 1035 in 2005, or 74.5%) - only 264 plan further education: <a href="http://web.princeton.edu/sites/career/data/surveys/CareerSurveyReport2005.html%5B/url%5D">http://web.princeton.edu/sites/career/data/surveys/CareerSurveyReport2005.html</a></p>
<p>Does Princeton do something to incline its student in this direction, or does it have more to do with the tendencies of people who are particularly inclined to matriculate at Princeton in the first place, vs., say, Harvard or Yale?</p>
<p>Perhaps some people with too much free time at hand could do a Princeton-wide survey to find out why that is the case. My guess is that some Princeton graduates like to take advantages of the numerous corporate headquarters surrounding their school's campus.</p>
<p>"Top 5:
Harvard: 21.49%
Yale: 17.96%
Princeton: 15.78%
Stanford: 10.7%
Williams: 9.06%"</p>
<p>If you bothered to examine the methodology of that table, you would find it horribly biased. </p>
<p>As for blueriver's assertion that "Princeton graduates like to take advantages of the numerous corporate headquarters surrounding their school's campus," I'm not really sure what to say other than that can't possibly be true. </p>
<p>It could very well be the lack of a significant graduate presence on campus, especially the lack of professional schools, as well as the demographic that chooses to matriculate--a holdover from the Hargadon era.</p>
<p>maybe it is a factor, although an implicit one - no one could be sure until a comprehensive study is done.
I would however see that as a matter of personal choice of individual students, informed by the various formative experiences of their upbringings, rather than an inclination primarily caused by the schools they attend.
That being said, you could still show me there is a correlation between an inclination to enter the workforce after college and an inclination to choose Princeton if admitted.</p>
<p>On campus students are encouraged to believe that if they work in China or Africa or NYC -- in business, teaching, public policy, etc. -- they have a much better chance at getting into a top law, business or grad school. So I don't know whether those numbers above are for students immediately going onto advanced study or for those going on eventually.</p>
<p>@aparent5: From the info, I think it breaks down as follows:</p>
<p>1125 respondents to the 2005 Career Survey Report, 99.3% of the graduating class (--> 1133 are in the graduating class), of whom:</p>
<ul>
<li>771 plan to seek employment (68.5% of respondents)</li>
<li>264 plan to pursue further education (23.5% of respondents)</li>
<li>90 plan to engage in non-profit/year-long fellowships, including the Princeton in Asia/Africa/Latin America programs that you mentioned. There is no indication of whether those 90 will pursue further education or seek employment afterwards.</li>
</ul>