<p>The comparison of Harvard Medical School and Brown is beside the point, because, unless I am missing something, the student has not been admitted to HMS, but only to Harvard College. So the choice is between Brown PLME and Harvard undergrad. The great majority of Harvard undergrads (and Brown students) who apply to medical school get in medical school somewhere, but most Harvard undergrads (and Brown students) who apply to HMS are denied admission. The admit rate to HMS is higher for Harvard students than for Brown students, but it is unclear whether this has anything to do with Harvard, or is simply a reflection of higher academic ability of Harvard students in general. If the question is "For a given student, are they more likely to get into Harvard, Hopkins, UCSF, etc. from Harvard undergrad or from Brown undergrad" then these comparisons of Harvard to Brown are not particularly revealing. If you control for high school grades and SAT scores, do Harvard students get into more prestigious medical schools than Brown students?</p>
<p>I was accepted to a similar program and Yale. I'm leaning towards the program.</p>
<p>go to ucsd 7 yr med school</p>
<p>its is really good</p>
<p>I think I like yale and harvard better than brown, but I'm afraid that I won't do well in college and regret not having done the PLME. If I do brown PLME, though, I'm afraid that I'll regret that I didn't go to my 1st choice college.</p>
<p>suburbian--if yale and harvard are definitely your first choice college i think you should go to one of them. your college experience is really important, you want to be where you think you'll be happiest. despite some of the other opinions on this board, i don't think there is much difference among med schools, and you'll most likely get into a good one. plus, you obviously did well in high school to get into such great schools. what makes you think you won't do the same in college?</p>
<p>What I'm confused about is how crimsonbulldog somehow knows that harvard would be a better fit than brown. ("Now, if Brown is more your fit, if you think you'll thrive there better than at harvard, if you think you'll be happier there than at harvard (you probably would in my own opinion)") What about the poster's friend (from your vast store of knowledge about him, clearly) made you think that?</p>
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<p>I'm afraid that I won't do well in college and regret not having done the PLME.</p>
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<p>With the abilities and work ethic that you must have in order to be where you are now, I don't think you need to be concerned about this.</p>
<p>let us know what you're leaning towards suburbian!</p>
<p>I had to choose between Pton/Yale(/Stanf too!)and Northwestern HPME (its med school is #20). The way I think about it, if I evaluate myself objectively, I'm going to work my butt off with or without a guarantee. In other words, if I'm guaranteed admission to Feinberg, great, but I'm going to work for the top anyway, so the less stressing over MCATs and GPA isn't a factor for me. It is nice to have a med school as a backup -- my mom's a doctor and she says it's truly a blessing for any prospective premed -- so it comes down to a) how certain you are about med and b) are you willing to take a risk?</p>
<p>mea, what are you leaning towards?</p>
<p>It's not that I'm planning to slack off in college or that I don't think I'll be able to handle the work load. Coming from a school that isn't very strong or competitive, I haven't had to work too hard to do well in school. However, if I go to a one of the top colleges in the nation, I'll be with other really smart, hard-working people. Some of them may have had better preparation in high school than I did. So my rank in class at college would most likely be lower than it was in high school, and this would make admission to medical school more difficult. </p>
<p>After visiting Harvard and Yale, I found that I really like both colleges, and there are very few (or no) things that I dislike about either college. So if I went to Brown, the main reason for going there would be for the med school program, not because I'm particularly attracted to Brown. I thought about it for awhile and realized that going to Brown would be the safe choice, not necessarily my first choice. Going to Harvard and Yale would be more of a risk in terms of med school admissions, but these are the colleges that I like more. I think I'll go with the riskier option.</p>
<p>suburbian, it's a shame I won't see you at Brown next year, but definitely go with what you want. That's always the better option. :)</p>
<p>I think the dilemma for students choosing the Brown 8 year program is a difficult one. I have usually advised students to go to their top choice university or LAC over 6 year programs (e.g. BU) as I believe strongly in gaining as broad an education as possible before starting medical school. You will never have that opportunity again. The Brown program has the advantage of obtaining a full undergraduate education in addition to having the assurance of a medical school acceptance, so I think it offers the possibility of an Ivy league education in addition to a M.D. degree.</p>
<p>It is extremely difficult for an 18 year old to assess the quality of a medical school (even a 22 year old). However, I would strongly advise students considering PLME to visit the medical school and perhaps visiting one or two other schools you may want to attend someday. Is Brown Med where you really want to go to medical school? I think the decision ultimately depends on the student's long-term goals. Brown is known for its primary care programs but not its research. It generally is not considered one of the top medical schools to prepare for an academic career. However, if someone wants to go into private practice in a primary care specialty, it may be a good fit. I think it also boils down to the student, their level of stress tolerance, ambition, risk taking, etc. I would say that most students admitted to PLME will get into medical school somewhere by working hard in their first choice college. It is very likely that some of them will get into a top medical school which may open opportunities unavailabe at Brown Med. </p>
<p>I have been a faculty member at Harvard and Hopkins, and served on the admissions committee of the former. I believe there are many places where one can gain training to become a very good physician; however, there is something special about going to a place where you are surrounded by other outstanding students and physicians, and challenged to be the absolute best physician you can be. In that sense, I agree with crimsonbulldog; however, that may not be worth the stress/workload for some otherwise capable students. On the other hand, where you go only gives you a start, and an outstanding student can certainly succeed anywhere and you have a whole lifetime to make your mark in medicine. It just may be tougher to gain entrance to some of the top residency programs if that is your goal. If not, I think attending PLME is a great choice, and for the right student, may enable him/her to fully enjoy their college experience. Finally, unlike the legal profession, most patients do not know or care where you went to medical school but seek a competent and compassionate doctor to take care of them.</p>
<p>Hey pmyen,</p>
<p>That was a really informative post. I think you nailed the issue head on.</p>
<p>I have a question a bit off topic. From your experience in the medical school admission process, would you say that the reputation of the undergraduate school has a bearing on the process? </p>
<p>Thanks for your help!</p>
<p>asterstar - either princeton or yale. Currently, it looks like princeton, but i'm finding it really hard to let go of yale.</p>
<p>Mr Sanguine,
Where you go for college does make a difference for med school admissions. Students that do well at top schools have distinguished themselves in an environment of other strong peers. Additionally, the top medical schools often have a good relationship with the premed advisors of these schools, and have learned to trust their rankings of their students. </p>
<p>Students from schools that do not have as strong a reputation will need to be at the very top of their class to be considered at the top private medical schools. Strong MCAT scores will be important for such students as they need to be assessed relative to the national pool. I address this issue in more detail near the end of another thread:<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=52951%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=52951</a>. On the other hand, very good to top students at state schools may be given preference to their own state school. The admissions committee will know the curriculum (e.g., honors programs), professors, and premed advisors.
Hope this helps.</p>
<p>I would add that, although I may be wrong about this, the Brown PLME program doesn't lock you in. What that means is that you can enter PLME, get your bachelor's, and then apply to other, better, med-schools, and if you get into one, you just drop out of PLME and go there. If you don't, then you just stay in PLME. Having a locked-in guarantee of admission to a med-school, with the opportunity to apply to others, is tremendously valuable. </p>
<p>The only issue I can see is possibly an ethical one - you would be going to PLME with no intention of completing the program, which means that you could be seen as taking away a spot that could have been used by somebody who actually intended to complete the whole program.</p>
<p>Sakky's point is a very good one if you are not locked in. You then would get a Brown education, assurance of med school admission, and still have the option to apply elsewhere. If it is permitted, I would think it would make the PLME very attractive. I don't think the medical school would have any problem filling the available slot from the regular medical school applicant pool. On the other hand, I could also see reasons why Brown would not encourage PLME students to apply elsewhere. They want to have the opportunity to keep some of the best and brightest.</p>