Harvard vs. USC Bacc/MD vs. Brown PLME

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
1

<p>Who knew getting into Harvard would be the source of so much hand-wringing and headaches? Right now, I must decide amongst:</p>

<p>USC Bacc/MD
Brown PLME
Harvard</p>

<p>(If it’s of any significance: I applied to, but was not invited to be interviewed by WUSTL’s combined med program. I was interviewed by Vanderbilt’s med program, but did not place into it. I did get into Rochester REMS, but marked it off my list. Aside from these, I didn’t apply to any other combined med programs.)</p>

<p>Financial considerations: USC Bacc/MD is giving me half-tuition. I have to pay (or borrow) the full ticket for Brown PLME and Harvard. My family makes ~210k/year… so unfortunately, no financial aid.</p>

<p>I want to note that I have a strong interest in the visual arts as well as neuroscience and medicine. I have been painting and drawing for most of my life, and now I am afraid that the “traditional” premed route might rob me of time and energy for art. Along these lines, Brown allows cross-registration with Rhode Island School of Design, which keeps PLME’s attractiveness in spite of its hefty pricetag. Keep in mind though, my plan is to go into medicine, not art. Ideally, I would like to major in neuroscience and minor in art.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I have heard amazing things about the Harvard environment, boundless opportunities for research, and the influence of being surrounded by incredible students. At the risk of sounding irrational, I admit this: I’m afraid that I might be “missing out” if I don’t attend Harvard. Please correct me if I’m terribly mistaken.</p>

<p>So basically, what it boils down to:</p>

<li>Guaranteed admission to medical school following an “upper-middle tier” undergrad, which would allow more artistic freedom and less stress</li>
</ol>

<p>OR</p>

<li>To take the traditional, artistically-limiting premed route through a more academically intense and prestigious undergrad school with a phenomenal student body.</li>
</ol>

<p>I know to some people the answer is grossly obvious (“You got into med school; shut up and take it” or “Don’t be an intellectual cop-out”). I also realize that by posting in the Multiple Degree Programs board, I’m probably going find more responses from people who strongly support combined med programs. However, I would greatly appreciate any honest opinion about Harvard premed life, as well as any pros and cons of Brown and USC.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

2

<p>If I were you, I would be choosing between PLME and the Bacc/MD but ONLY because of your strong interest in something artistic. I know the feeling–I wanted to do broadcast journalism and pre-med, which is something not a lot of places offer, and I was lucky enough to get into the Bacc/MD so now I have a chance to do it. </p>

<p>When I visited Harvard, I felt very overwhelmed and kind of stifled in a sense just because I got the feeling like everyone was judging everyone else, and I have a friend who goes there who kind of reaffirms that.</p>

<p>Other than that, I have another friend who got into the RISD/Brown 5-year (or 4-year?) arts program and she’s very excited about and has been telling me a lot about the visual arts at Brown, etc. and they seem like some great opportunities. At the same time, USC also has a strong artistic presence and, in a big city like LA, you really can’t go wrong with anything that you want to do. Both Alpert and Keck are great medical schools.</p>

<p>My best suggestion is to visit them and decide because they are two completely different vibes and you have to see which one best fits you.</p>

3

<p>Ignoring the MD “guarantee,” it sounds to me like you’d pick Brown over Harvard regardless. If that’s true, then take PLME. Easy.</p>

4

<p>yea, you sound like you would really enjoy brown. go with plme.</p>

5

<p>Definitely Brown PLME based on what you’ve said about yourself: it has a close proximity to RISD (you can take courses at the best art school in the country), and from what I’ve heard their neuroscience department is very good. You’d be surrounded by incredible students and get research opportunities at either Harvard or Brown.</p>

6

<p>Take PLME.</p>

<p>But, also know that majoring in art will not make you any less competitive for medical school. Most med schools actually love the non-traditional student. The med school requirements can be completed as the GE’s at many schools.</p>

<p>So pick school based on what you like better for undergrad, which by what you said seems to be Brown.</p>

7

<p>Thank you all so much for your viewpoints and advice. I am definitely taking them into consideration as to where I want to spend the next four years of my life (or even eight, in this case).</p>

<p>As of now, I am currently leaning towards the combined medical programs, none of which are “accelerated” (for those of you who were unfamiliar with the specific programs). So it’s basically down to Brown PLME or USC Bacc/MD. I’ve visited both campuses and I’m having a difficult time parsing down the qualities I prefer at each school. Brown and USC are completely different flavors, in my opinion, and both have their perks and drawbacks.</p>

<p>Just to be safe, though, I will be visiting Harvard soon to evaluate if it’s really worth all the trouble of being premed at one of the top institutions in the nation.</p>

<p>Again, thank you all. :)</p>

8

<p>go to PLME for sure.</p>

<p>Best combination of guarantee (LOW REQUIREMENTS) and awesome school.</p>

9

<p>Keep us updated on your choice!</p>

<p>Best of luck on your decision :).</p>

10

<p>PLME seems like a great option. you can complete concentrations in both neuroscience and visual art (both of which are very strong at brown) and have a secure seat in med school–you get it all in one fell swoop!</p>

11

<p>If Brown’s only requirement for getting into the medical school is passing a certain number of courses and maintaining a 3.0 GPA (i.e. there is no subjective elements involved in the medical school application process and no MCAT) then I would go to Brown. But, from what I know about PLME, I’m not sure if that is the case. For USC, I think they have GPA, MCAT, and other requirements for acceptance into the medical school. I would get clarification with regard to how certain your chances are that you will get into medical school from USC and Brown. If not 98% certain, I would go to Harvard. Very few Harvard students have a tough time getting into medical school. It has the best record of placement in to medical schools in the country.</p>

<p>Some “guaranteed” 8 year or 7 year programs aren’t truly guaranteed, so that is the time of investigation I would recommend.</p>

12

<p>Some posters don’t really seem to realize: Brown’s PLME program is an eight year program to which the OP is already admitted. Unless s/he wants to go to a med school other than Brown, s/he is already admitted to med school! My D is at Brown and is concentrating in visual art. She absolutely loves it, even if she does not choose to cross-register at RISD, which she may one day decide to do. I don’t know anything about the USC program, but if nothing else, the difference between California and Rhode Island is pretty profound.</p>

13

<p>Ignore the guarantee for a minute. Would you choose Brown? It sounds like it. Then go.</p>

14

<p>To maintain the guarantee at USC you have to have a 3.2 GPA and a 30 on the MCAT’s. Additionally, you have to take some 1 unit classes.</p>

<p>But, pick PLME, it has everything you want and more.</p>

15

<p>Right now I am leaning a bit towards Brown. I examined the “PLME Class of 2011 Handbook” (they haven’t posted the 2012 one), and their requirements are very reasonable.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Minimum grade of “B” in the introductory biology course (which can be replaced by a 4 or 5 on the AP Exam) and two additional biology courses.</p></li>
<li><p>Complete CHEM 0330 and CHEM 0350</p></li>
<li><p>Complete MATH 0090 or equivalent course (can be replaced by a 4 or 5 on the AP Exam)</p></li>
<li><p>Complete two physics courses; they give you 3 pairs of courses to choose from (can be replaced by SATII Physics score of at least 650, or a score of 4 or 5 on any AP Physics Exam)</p></li>
<li><p>At least one behavioral science, psychology, or human development course; courses in the humanities are encouraged, but not specifically required</p></li>
<li><p>No MCAT required, but nowhere does the manual say you can’t take the MCAT.</p></li>
<li><p>Complete the AMCAS application (but ALL premed students do this anyway)</p></li>
</ol>

16

<p>I was also told by the Brown representative you can take those Chemistry and Math courses required for admission to Alpert as “Pass/Fail” rather than A, B, C, D, F scale.</p>

17

<p>ppenquin757,
If taking required courses pass/fail, a teacher evaluation is also needed to show proficiency.</p>

<p>From the PLME website:</p>

<p>V. EXPECTATIONS FOR ACADEMIC PERFORMANCE IN THE UNDERGRADUATE YEARS</p>

<p>To remain in good academic standing within the PLME, students are expected to meet certain minimum guidelines</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Brown University does not calculate grade point average (GPA). Therefore, the PLME does not impose a GPA requirement. However, the biology courses required to fulfill the biology competency must be taken for a grade, and a grade of A or B must be achieved. For students who choose to take more than three biology courses, the first three (two if the student places out of BIOL 0200) taken from the approved list must be taken for a grade.</p></li>
<li><p>PLME students who elect to take courses on a Satisfactory/No Credit (S/NC) basis must ask the professor of the course to complete a Course Performance Report (CPR). CPR forms are available in the Registrar’s Office on the third floor of University Hall. These CPRs will be used in the PLME academic evaluation process. Students who need any help in obtaining requested CPRs should contact the PLME Office (863-9790).</p></li>
<li><p>PLME students must demonstrate consistent and satisfactory progress in meeting competency requirements in basic preclinical sciences (biology, chemistry, mathematics, and physics), in the behavioral sciences, and the humanities and social sciences. All undergraduate requirements are reasonably expected to be attained within a four-year period, though a longer period of time may be allowed for students taking a leave of absence, seeking advanced degrees, engaging in work-study options, or possessing extenuating circumstances other than poor academic performance. In all cases, an undergraduate PLME student must satisfy all competencies listed on pages 4 through 7 of this handbook by the end of the spring semester of the senior year in order to begin medical school.</p></li>
</ol>