<p>Geeeeez... Tell her good luck! That's ridiculous!</p>
<p>Hey, shogun. Maybe you could just share your college recreation stories with us - your small group of cc friends. No one else will ever find out. :D</p>
<p>Oh man...........I spent a lot of my time with my eyes closed..........</p>
<p>i just thought i's throw something out there. if you look at the princeton review, which is highly respected, they review all colleges and compare them. they list usma as number 13 on a list called "their students never stop studying." they also rate each college academically giving it a number (1-100 i guess). usma was given a 97 rating, usna a 92, and usafa a 98. in comparison, harvard was given a 92, cornell an 89, princeton an 88, yale a 97, and stanford a 96. i thought that was kind of interesting.</p>
<p>Why are you trying to compare. The main reason you should be going to West Point is if you have a desire to be a commisioned officer in the United States Army. Not because of prestige, percentages, or anything else. Rankings are fubar guys. I applied to Princeton and Yale, and didn't get in. Of course, they were my 4th and 5th respectively, so I didn't mind much. But who wants to be immersed into the liberal hoopa of civilian college life anyhow??</p>
<p>If you are concerned about the "liberal hoopa" of civilian colleges there are plenty that might satisfy you...Bob Jones University comes to mind.
The thing I am impressed with at West Point so far is that there doesn't seem to be a "liberal" or "conservative" bent to it.</p>
<p>Service to the nation is apolitical. As it should be. The notion that patriotism and "love of country" is a "conservative" OR "liberal" value is absurd and un-American.</p>
<p>Excellent post Shogun. There are tons of conservative kids at the Ivy schools and plenty of moderate/liberal kids at the academies. I know bc mine is one of the latter.</p>
<p>Amen, shogun!</p>
<p>Labels like "liberal" and "conservative" are more frequently than not misleading, and seem more designed to end discussion than to encourage it. Most of the people I know are politically all over the road, and that's how it should be. And Shogun, I couldn't agree more that no group has the inside track on patriotism though there are those who would like you to believe that if you don't aspose to their form of politics you're somehow deficient in this regard. Some of this discourse reminds me of when we were involved in Viet Nam and the "love it (meaning support the war) or leave it" rhetoric. Some things never change.</p>
<p>Anyway, to add to this discussion, my son, who wants to study engineering chose West Point over his prior first choice of the U.C. Berkeley Engineering Department. For those who aren't familiar with U.C. Berkeley Engineering, it's one of the most highly regarded programs in the world and extreemly difficult to get into. But in my son's mind there really is no way to compare West Point to any non-service academy university because they are simply too different. For my son, who wants to serve his nation in the profession of arms as as the best Army officer he can be, the choice was simple and he's never looked back. You choose Yale/Harvard/Princton/Cal/Mit/etc. for one reason; you choose West Point for other reasons.</p>
<p>When I mean liberal, I mean overtly liberal. Greenpeace, protesting constantly over meaningless things. Constant bashing of government, communist/socialist-like individuals, hippees, individuals who don't seem to think there is anything remotely wrong with smoking marijuana, changing partners every week and have absolutely no values or sense of ethics. I don't believe liberal is the right term for these individuals. They, in my book are called "wrong," "unethical," "unpatriotic," and "immoral." They are the ones that apply the term "liberal," not me. Thats what they choose to be called.</p>
<p>WPSON2010,</p>
<p>Welcome aboard and thank you for your insightful post. You raised a wonderful son and I hope you keep us posted on this first year.</p>
<p>A really moral and just person once said, </p>
<p>"Oh wouldn't it be nice if everyone had the same sense of morality, justice, equality, values, ethics, and religious beliefs as I."</p>
<p>Fortunately in a free society that never happens.</p>
<p>momoftwins, thanks for the welcome! I hope I can contribute something constructive to this group. Certainly this past year has been an amazing journey of discovery for our entire family and for our close friends who have given nothing but support to our son. West Point is a unique institution and national treasure we should all be very proud of.</p>
<p>ragmanlaw; being a work in progress I'm in no position to be throwing stones about morals or ethics and I try to listen to the legitimate concerns of people from groups like Greenpeace, the ACLU, and pot-smoking hippies. And bashing the government and protesting are time honored American traditions I hope will never disappear. What I enjoy listening to are carefully thought out positions based on information from both wide and broad sources of information. Not infrequently these positions are the opposite to my own, but that's when I also seem to enjoy them the most.</p>
<p>Conversely, it becomes obvious pretty quickly when someone hasn't done their homework and is simply regurgutating the company line. I give my boys hell when I hear them parrot my own positions and god save them if they ever quote me verbatim because then I know they've taken the easy way out and really don't know what they're talking about.</p>
<p>Interestingly, West Point is known for inviting well informed speakers from the "opposition" to talk to the cadets. Those speakers are often shocked at the invitation, and then even more shocked when they ask if there are any topics that are off limits and are told there are none. From what I have read from the memos from these speakers the experience is intellectually transforming and they leave West Point with a new found appreciation for this country, our history, and our military. And because these folks are real sharp the cadets learn that there can be more than one well reasoned side to an argument, that anti-war is not necessarily anti-american, and that liberal is not dirty word.</p>
<p>Sweet! Another fabulous Mom to add to the list of great folks in here. I enjoyed reading your posts. :)</p>
<p>Welcome WPSON2010! Last week at our WP parents club we were able to meet 5 newly accepted candidates eagerly awaiting R Day. A smart bunch of young men and women. Iam sure your son will fit right in!</p>
<p>Thanks shogun! We had my sons graduation party yesterday and he runs with a pretty smart group of kids, but the cadets I've had the pleasure to meet at WP are a different breed apart and a group he's really looking forward to joining. After the party my son's WP laison gave him one of his Ranger tags for my son to keep in his wallet for inspiration when the going gets tough. My son was speachless and tried to give the tag back knowing it had to be earned even to be touched, but his liaison, who is a tremendous person, insisted he could keep it. To my son, who aspires to be a Ranger, the tag ment more than all of money and other gifts he recieved combined.</p>
<p>Jamzmom: If you were refering to me thanks!...except for the part about being a mom. My wife of twenty years would be very surprised to hear the news I've been so careful to keep from her all this time.</p>
<p>LOL! Sorry about that WPSON2010. With such thoughtful posts I assumed.... Not that Dad's aren't thoughtful mind you... LOL I'll just shush & taste my shoe leather now. My son is at USMMA but I like to come in here and bug Momoftwins & Shogun from time to time. Thats a really great story about the tag. He will treasure it forever I think. You have to be so proud and so many others here share that with you. Great luck to your son & your family. Enjoy every minute! This first year flew by and you won't believe how fast. They told us that last year & I didn't buy it. They weren't kidding.</p>
<p>Again, sorry (Dad) :)</p>
<p>You’re joking right, define academically! West Point’s average GPA is about 3.8 and average SAT Score is about 625M and 642CR. Most of them are in their top 10% of their class, NHS members, and NSMQT qualified. So in your mind 4.0 is the only exception of high academic quality. I also forgot to tell you that West Point requires leadership skills. Ivy League schools wants you with high grades, numerous club activites and communty service hours, and they just want your tuition. My friends and my teacher go to an Ivy League school, so I know. Being Captain of the football team is different than to be just on the football team. West Point looks more of this. Oh yeah, West Point is also competitve physically. To be appointed at West Point you have to pass all parts of the CFA and you have to be physically competive once you get there.</p>
Shogun,
Bingo!
Not sure if I’m fully qualified to answer your question but I’m a West Point grad who has written a book on selective college admissions. In terms of admissions rates, the Ivy League schools vary from 5 percent admit rate to something like 12 percent at Cornell. West point’s admit rate is 9 percent. The academic credentials of most incoming cadets are not as strong as those of Ivy League students but there is much greater emphasis on leadership. An Academy education is like drinking from a firehouse. There is never enough time to do everything so you become talented at multi-tasking. Two of my classmates were Rhodes scholars.