<p>Kwibbles, I can understand your frustration with your D. Cornell is a wonderful school, and though UChicago has it's great points, I can't see spending more money to go there over Cornell. It's hard to help kids see the world from an adult's perspective!</p>
<p>
I'm rather stunned by the paucity of aid offers this year for my daughter, as compared to my son 5 years ago. For us it has worked out fine-- but percentage wise, my son's college search produced more reasonable offers than my daughter's. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, their academic profiles and choice of schools is different, so I can't do a school-by-school comparison. But even in state, we have awards from the UC's that gap us, whereas 5 years ago they were full-need awards. Now I know that state money is tighter... and its really hard to draw conclusions in general. But I'm wondering if others who rely on financial aid have found that funds seem to be drying up these days?</p>
<p>Kwibbles, yes your daughter is in a quandry and because the NYS tuition at Cornell's non-endowed colleges is about $18k the 4 year differential in cost will in excess of $50,000. Yikes! The other consideration she must be struggling with is the limitated degree programs which she may enroll in. </p>
<p>These issues do need to be discussed and well thought through early on in the process. We had "the talk" early during our son's junior year and everything worked out wonderfully for him and us and is receiving $100,000 in merit scholarships which reduces his tuition bill to about $6000 this year. Because $60,000 of this was awarded to him during his HS jr year, this would not have been possible if we had not laid the groundrules down very early on.</p>
<p>I cannot emphisize how important it is to communicate issues having a significant impact on a student's college choices during junior year. That might seem early to some, but many students begin mulling over their choices during this time. Students who are resilient enough to adjust their thinking to concrete realities will end up at their dream college. However it may very well be a different dream than would have been the case if the parents did not clearly communicate family realities at such an early stage. </p>
<p>Good luck to your daughter!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Blumini, I saw the Bank of Mom and Dad article in the Times and I had to laugh. Not because these parents are helping out their grown children, or that helping grown children is such a bad thing... but compare this article to the one of several weeks ago, where the Times reported parents were encouraging their college-bound kids to take on huge education loans! No wonder these grown children need help from mom and dad -- they're paying off huge education loans.
This is really so sad.
[/quote]
kwibbles, thanks contrasting these two articles. I sometimes just can't help wondering if the whole loan concept is just another way of "supporting the habit" of having to have what one really can't afford. :(</p>
<p>kwibbles -
"While the amount of debt she will be taking on (at least $25,000) seems horrible to us, there is no way to convince her of this. Perhaps the only positive way to look at this is that it might help her think about her future in more realistic terms. "</p>
<p>Is that $25,000 total or for each of four years?</p>
<p>25k of debt for 4 years isn't horrible.Both of our college attending daughters will have about 15k of debt by graduation.I think its a rather modest amount and I think installs a sense of "ownership" over their schooling.
25k a year is preposterous.No kid should graduate undergrad with 100k of debt hanging over their heads</p>
<p>Why so little emphasis on having students work, both during summers and during the school year? I'm going to a school next year that (with super-generous financial aid) is just on the border of affordability, and I plan on working for every extra cent, though I'm still going to be in debt ($20k or so) by the time I graduate. There's a point in time where education is not the parent's responsibility any more. My parents are doing what they can, and I appreciate that, but I could not imagine letting them pay for my entire college education.</p>
<p>jpro where you wrote
[quote]
25k a year is preposterous.No kid should graduate undergrad with 100k of debt hanging over their heads.
[/quote]
makes me think of this past Sunday's 60 Minutes in which they did a brief piece on Sallie Mae - and what has befallen several students... I was surprised no one mentioned this on CC - or perhaps I missed it, but, for me anyway, it was an upsetting eye opener. Many are taken in by the offers of debt, but are unable to handle it.</p>
<p>gonewithfergus - good for you and your motivation. I hope you're very successful in your summer jobs and do well! :)</p>
<p>"Why so little emphasis on having students work, both during summers and during the school year? I'm going to a school next year that (with super-generous financial aid) is just on the border of affordability, and I plan on working for every extra cent, though I'm still going to be in debt ($20k or so) by the time I graduate. There's a point in time where education is not the parent's responsibility any more. My parents are doing what they can, and I appreciate that, but I could not imagine letting them pay for my entire college education."</p>
<p>I give you a ton of credit for being so responsible, and I wish you the best of luck. I truly believe that because you have a bit of skin in the game, you will appreciate your education that much more and take advantage of everything that your school has to offer.</p>
<p>If it was too expensive and no aid offered, yes. That is our agreement going into the search process. He can look anywhere, but if we are paying any of the bills, we get to say no if something is out of reach. At this moment, we have no idea where he will be admitted or what type of aid will be offered.</p>
<p>The bottom line is: some kids simply refuse to listen to reason. I know this has been said before, but my daughter -- who, by the way, is super book-smart but has zero common sense -- believes she can do anything. She's going to be successful and get out of debt fast. And you know, I'd like to believe it. After all, how many of us were told by our own parents that we couldn't do something we loved because it didn't make enough money, that we could have that has an avocation but not a job? Maybe Steven Spielberg's parents tried to talk him out of a film career.
Unfortunately, I am only optimistic for about thirty seconds a day. The rest of the time I am totally depressed about my daughter's impending debt. And even though we talk about it a lot, and I show her articles from the newspapers, etc., it doesn't seem to bother her at all. My only alternative was to forbid her from accepting UChicago and well, that brings us full circle to the beginning of this thread. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
What I'm really worried about now is that with me as her cosigner on the loan, she may very well decide or need to default, and then what will I do?</p>
<p>Kwibbles, why can't you just say, "no, I won't cosign." If the kid can find an alternative source of financing or someone else to cosign, fine. But when you say, What I'm really worried about now is that with me as her cosigner on the loan, she may very well decide or need to default, and then what will I do? -- you are absolutely right to be worried. I would never under any circumstances cosign for a large loan for one of my kids. </p>
<p>It looks like the decision has already been made, but I think that you really could have stood firm if you had wanted to. Since her other choice was Cornell (post #60), its not as if she would be sacrificing basic educational quality. That is, its not the same as some kid whose only affordable choice is the local jc or lower-level state U. </p>
<p>This really isn't any difference than the ability to say "no" to kids in any other context. My money, my limits. </p>
<p>I have another personal rule: I never lend money to friends or relatives unless I really intend it as a gift. If they want to pay it back, fine -- but if I am not prepared to let go of the idea of needing to be repaid, then I don't provide the funds in the first place. The same is true of co-signing. The problem is that in the long run, disagreement or misunderstandings about repayment will drive a bigger wedge in the relationship than saying no in the first place ever could have. </p>
<p>I hope it does work out for you in the long run. I'm sorry it ended up with a situation where you are uncomfortable with the outcome, though.</p>
<p>I have to say, I feel both heartened and disheartened as I read through this thread.</p>
<p>I'm not a parent so sorry to barge in here but I just wanted to ask your advice about the whole financial problem that may (and usually does) arise during the college selection problem.</p>
<p>My mom recently remarried and though she doesn't make much, she and her husband now make roughly around $70,000. We've been talking about me going into a 0-6 PharmD school that would assure me of a seat in the pharmacy school in my third year. Ever since we've really decided on it, I've been looking and researching colleges to see where I think I'd like to go and which ones I think I can afford. </p>
<p>My stepdad has made it clear that he won't help with my college education (he has to support his son still) and my mom doesn't make enough to really afford an OOS school without any form of financial aid.</p>
<p>I think, however, that I might be able to get some aid. I've kept my grades up, my ranking in my school is excellent (even though it's not the most competitive one out there) and my ACT score wasn't bad at all. I've done some volunteer work and I've been active in sports. I might not have the strongest profile out there (not HYSPM material, good thing I don't want to go there) but I do try. I'm just a junior so I have a few months before I have to send in applications. When we first started talking about my list of schools, my mom decided that I'd apply to all of the reasonable ones (ones that I would actually consider attending and wouldn't cost an arm and leg to attend) and choose the one that offers the most financial aid. I'm going to start working this summer and all throughout my senior year to save up for college expenses which would put me at a savings of around $6000 if I watch my cash output.</p>
<p>But my goals have been clear from the beginning. I would go to a direct-entry pharmacy school. I would just rather not spend 2-3 years in college fulfilling prerequisites for a school I would end up not being able to attend. </p>
<p>Recently, however, she has been hinting that she would rather have me stay in-state so that the costs would be cheaper.</p>
<p>But here's the catch. The 2-3 years it would take me to complete my prerequisites would practically be free. But the ONLY pharmacy school in my state (which isn't a direct-entry one) would cost the same (around $30,000/yr) whether it's in-state or OOS. And my seat is not guaranteed. At the end of those 2-3 years, I might end up not getting in (competition, I hear, is very strong).</p>
<p>I guess I'm just feeling a little betrayed. I've explained all this to her but she doesn't seem to understand it all. And she's not very involved in the process, in case you haven't noticed. She's turning back on her word and now she's hinting no aid from her at all if I go out of state. But the OOS schools could offer me aid and maybe even merit awards. They would also cost practically as much as the in-state pharm school here. </p>
<p>Also, to fulfill my prerequisites, I'd have to go to the community college. It would just be impractical to go to the local university. </p>
<p>How do I deal with this?</p>
<p>My #1 choice isn't even an elite school. Oregon State University. I liked it because it was still in the west coast, it's not overly expensive and I can apply to the WICHE program or WUE which would make my tuition in between in-state and OOS. My mom hates the idea though. I'm not exactly sure what her problem with Oregon is but everytime I come up with that name, she comes up with excuses like "It's a country life there" or "People there are very clannish" or "It would be hard for you to fit in there".</p>
<p>Granted, I've never visited ANY colleges. Haven't had enough money for it. But then again, neither has she. I thought it was a big deal that I was willing to go with the school that offered the most aid. Or am I just full of myself?</p>
<p>We said no.
I was not happy to say it but it needed to be said. Attending an elite school with insufficient aid is not a possibility in our family. We chose not to sacrifice our retirement, younger sibling's future, home equity to fund our son's dream school. I just couln't sign on that PLUS loan line.
So much here on CC is focused on gaining admission to the desired school. Not so much about financing the choice. And it usually IS a choice unless the student did not apply to any academic or financial safeties.
Sure hope our son doesn't regret being born into this 'poor' family of his!</p>
<p>mediocreme: I'm an oregonian, and it's not all country life! Only the eastern part is, and not really anymore. The valley, where OSU is plenty normal, just highly liberal. OSU is a good school and Corvallis is a nice town, although I do find it dull. It's not hard to fit in here at all. People are extremely down to earth, way more so than the east, where I'm going. I'm sure you'd fit in fine. Besides OSU is large enough that there are all types of people there.</p>
<p>Good luck in your search. What state are you from btw?</p>
<p>Mediocreme...why don't you check out Univ. of the Sciences in Philadelphia, Pa. Its a small school(2500) 70% girls, 6 yr. program. Since you are from Nevada they would scoop you up, maybe at least half scholarship 1100 sats ..... check it out</p>
<p>gcards1: I live in Las Vegas, NV. Thanks for the input. I don't really know what Oregon is like. My best friend visits there each summer and she just raves about it all the time so I'm sure there are good things about it. I might come up for a visit this summer, just to see what it's really like.</p>
<p>conan: I have looked into USIP. Thanks for that though. I'm glad that they'd offer aid for me. I was actually looking into applying there along with Northeastern (haha, I'm a dreamer), MCPHS, URI, and Rutgers.</p>
<p>mediocreme, you should find out if you can just list your mother's income on your FAFSA since your stepfather is not supporting you. I don't know the legalities, but it would be a good idea to talk to someone with a financial background to find out. You might qualify for aid if that is the case. Also contact Oregon State to find out if there is a way you can qualify for in-state tuition by your sophomore year. I know of one student who did that in Washington State by living there year round and working during the summer. I don't know how the family handled the child's dependency status on their income tax forms (I suspect the child became self supporting)</p>
<h1>77 Mediocreme: Most of OR is like NV. Dry, hot, high elevation and sparse, scrub, mountainous. But there are some parts that are green, wet in winter and comfortable in summer.</h1>
<p>At the beginning of the application process, I went through all my son's possible college choices and ruled out any school that would cost over $35K per year (taking into account likely scholarship packages but not loans) and which included housing (my EFC is $32K). My son then asked if he could apply to 2 different schools that cost over this amount (they were only slightly over) if he paid the difference in loans--and I replied yes. The agreement was that my wife and I would pay $30K per year and anything over this amount he would pay through work, loans, or gifts from grandparents/aunts/uncles/etc. The key was that we wanted a choice that would neither bankrupt us, nor end up with him having more than $20K in loans at graduation. </p>
<p>In the end, he chose a reasonably priced OOS school with a strong business program (Indiana Univ, Bloomington) that costs about $26-27K including room and board for the first year (and offered a small 4-year scholarship). One must also be aware, however, that by year 4 this will probably cost us at least $32-33K. But in the end, his cost will be minimal--and I end up saving a bit as well.</p>
<p>I think the key to both of us ending up happy is that we set guidelines at the beginning--but we still allowed him to have choices at the end. And there were no surprises about what school he would or would not be allowed to go to on account of finances.</p>