have an interesting college situation, and would like some advice.

College Search & Selection
1

I have never used this site, but I have an interesting college situation that I would like to get some advice on.I am a senior in high school and have applied/will soon apply to the following schools:
Fordham (EA)
Notre Dame (EA)
Case Western (EA)
Northwestern
Washington and Lee University (and Johnson Scholarship)
Oberlin
Washington University in St. Louis

Just a bit about me, heres my most important info:
SAT: 2270
Math: 770
Reading 730
Writing 770

Subjects
Spanish 740
Physics 740

Jesuit School, 4.14 W/4.0 UW

5’s on APUSH and AP Spanish, and many honors classes.

National Merit Semifinalist (and most likely finalist)

Strong community service and leadership on resume

My situation comprises a couple things: First, my parents have agreed to give me all of the money they have saved for me for college, no matter scholarships. They have saved up enough that they can pay in full any of the colleges that I have applied to. Also, I intend to go into engineering. I am confident that I will be able to get a full tuition scholarship for Fordham, but if I were to go there I would do the 3-2 engineering with Columbia. I guess my first question would be if anybody has done a 3-2 engineering program, how is it? there is very little information online about it, as far as I can find. Also, I know this is the wrong section, but what are my odds of getting the presidential or jesuit scholarship at Fordham?

If I end up with money left over, it will all be invested wisely for me. For one, what would the better value be? Spending the money on Notre Dame/Northwestern full tuition or investing it while attending Fordham for 3 years (and then pay full tuition for 2 years at columbia)? Also, I am having a difficult time finding this online as well: What matters more for future employment, where I went to school or my class rank? That would seriously affect my choice.

I guess my main question is, is a great education and college experience worth a quarter million dollars more than a good one?

2

There are many previous threads on 3-2 programs. The general consensus is that few students intending to the 3-2 actually transfer to the “2” school. There is often uncertainty in getting admitted to the “2” school, or the “2” school may be too expensive (and it is a total of five years). For example, Columbia has rather strict grade and GPA requirements to get admitted as a 3-2 transfer; see https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/apply/combined-plan .

If you want to study engineering, it is best to go to a school where your engineering major is offered natively. Many excellent schools for engineering are state universities; those in your state may be among them. There are a number of smaller public and private schools with engineering majors if you prefer a smaller school.

For engineering employment, larger companies tend to recruit more widely; smaller companies often recruit mainly in their regions. School reputation in engineering may matter for companies that have to travel to recruit. Some companies do have cut-off GPAs to get interviews, supposedly commonly 3.0 but sometimes other values.

Your stats are high enough to get full tuition to full ride scholarships at some schools. See
http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/ (e.g. Alabama, Howard, Tuskegee, Florida A&M, Louisiana Tech, Prairie View A&M)
http://competitivefulltuition.yolasite.com/
http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/ (e.g. Texas A&M, Arizona State)

3

Don’t go to a 3-2 program.

Have you applied to Alabama?

With their NMF award, and engineering award you would get:

5 years of tuition ( you can opt to use those 5th year semesters to pay for summer abroads…very nice)
1 year of housing
3500 per year stipend from the univ
2500 per year stipend from eng’g
2000 summer experience
iPad or some other tech choice.

Bama has amazing new STEM facilities. over 1Million Sq Ft of new STEM academic space…all very impressive and state of the art…and gorgeous.

http://eng.ua.edu/buildings/
The buildings pictured in the above link are the new STEM space buildings.

4

A third vote for not going to a 3-2 program. A better approach is to go to a school with a strong co-op program and on campus recruiting. Look at which companies are coming to career fairs on campus. Co-oping is a great career move. You get on the job training and graduate with work experience and references. (Fwiw, most coops pay extremely well. My ds earned 2/3 of his post-graduate (as in after completing his BS) salary and was awarded scholarship $$ for his remaining semesters.)

5

^The 3-2 program is usually complicated, but there are exceptions, namely 1° the student doesn’t need FA for the “2” part, and 2° the universities are in the same city, making the transfer “logical” and easier logistically (vs. Portland, OR to Columbia, NY). With Fordham/Columbia, (like with Agnes Scott/Georgia Tech), things are rather smooth, and OP has already said they could pay the Columbia part fully and even have money leftover, which would be invested for him/her. So, in that sense, spending for 2 years at Columbia after 3 years at Fordham (potentially 4 years + 2, which OP should check is allowed), would be a better deal than 4 years full costs at Northwestern or Notre Dame.
A NMF with a 4.0 from a Jesuit secondary school has as high a chance of getting the full tuition scholarship as possible.
Obviously, if OP does not get the presidential scholarship, then s/he wouldn’t have any incentive in attending Fordham, and would presumably choose between the full costs options where s/he has been admitted.
OP: Case Western will likely give you merit money, so factor it into your calculations and go visit.

6

Attending school for 5-6 yrs for a 4 yr degree also requires factoring in lost income as additional cost.

The list of good engineering programs not listed in this thread are numerous and with wildly varying costs. The OP might want to consider broadening their application strategy by evaluating their choices, for example, why W&L for engineering, and then add a few more options with varying costs.

7

I, too, was surprised by the inclusion of both Washington and Lee * and ,* Oberlin…

The list seems.to be in early stages of drafting even though we’re in November. Has the college adviser at your prep school been consulted ?

Op may want to have both a traditional BA and an engineering degree, or may not be sure about engineering?

8

OP is a well rounded student with many options. I second @mom2collegekids and @Mom2aphysicsgeek - add more choices with a native engineering program. Lafayette and Bucknell , if you are interested in smaller programs ; You could also look at Northeastern, RPI, WPI, Stevens Institute - you may have shots at some merit aid some of these places.

Universities with good co-oop and internships should be priority as well. Your investment returns of the money you save by attending a 3-2 program may not match the intangibles associated with attending an engineering university with good placement and co-ops. Don’t expect huge returns in the stock market - anything can happen in the next 3 to 5 years . And don’t forget to factor in the one-year of lost income from the 3-2 arrangement. You may just break even, and that’s assuming you did quite well with your investments.

Do you have W&L and Oberlin because of the 3/2 programs? Maybe you could keep them in the mix as an option, but you would be behind other engrg majors who would have already had internships lined up after sophomore year. And you would hit the 4th year at engineering school with all the tough courses in an unfamiliar environment. Would not suggest that to anyone except as a last resort.

9

Actually, after they complete their 3rd year at the Liberal Arts college, the students enter the 3rd year of engineering, not the 4th, and sometimes actually take 2nd year engineering classes. All their gen eds are completed by the time they attend the “2” part which means no “light” course to balance out the “tough” courses.

Overall I don’t think 3/2 programs are efficient but in this case, the Fordham-> Columbia sounds like a good compromise.

W&L is SO COMPLETELY OPPOSITE to Oberlin though that I can’t fathom a student who’d have both on his/her list.

There’s also the Bryn Mawr/Penn program, which is actually a 4+1 program - students actually get a Master’s in Engineering in 5 years. (Also exists as Haverford/Penn).

OP: why engineering? why liberal arts?
Have you looked into Olin? Lafayette?

Essentially, Engineering and Liberal Arts are very different in orientation and perspective. Some students are very interested in co-ops whereas others see them as turn offs, since they disrupt the sense of community. Some students find philosophy or great book discussion awesome (most kids attending Jesuit universities better like those since it can be up to 3 to 5 required classes in the core curriculum) and others may find them tedious and pointless. Some students can’t think of a reason to study abroad while others can’t imagine not being fluent in a language and living in another culture.

10

For a student with a school list like the OP’s I wonder if starting engineering courses earlier than later in addition to trying a co-op might not be a good idea in order to determine if engineering is truly a career they would enjoy.

11

Regarding having the funds “invested wisely”, you need the money to be there for sure, and your time horizon is fairly short. You really want an investment that protects the principal to ensure that is the case.

12

I have to agree with the others about the 3/2 program. (And that is even with having a S who went to Fordham and loved the school). I would think about adding Cornell and UMichigan to your list. And you might get merit aid at Lafayette (where my D is and also loves it) or perhaps schools like Bucknell, Lehigh.

And I might be in the minority on CC, but if you can afford to go to any school, go to the best you can – just be sure to thank you parents…

13

But start your list with a safety. Otherwise, your default safety is the 2-2 program starting at community college and finishing at a state university. That is a perfectly good (and often inexpensive) option in many places (though it depends on which state you live in), but it may be seen as a let-down for many high achievers in high school.