I read the Fiske description for both these schools and they seem to be pretty similar and I like both of them. I was wondering what some of the differences between these schools are?
Some factors that are important to me:
good for poli sci
debate team
research opportunities
professors who care about students
supportive, not overly competitive student body
not a party school
So both are excellent schools, but both definitely are quite liberal. I raise this point because you have expressed a strong interest in Claremont McKenna College (CMC).
CMC’s campus culture strikes me as much different than Swarthmore & Haverford.
If accepted to all three schools, which would you choose ? If uncertain, then which school would be the first to be eliminated from consideration.
Probably the biggest difference, is that Haverford is a mile from Bryn Mawr, and the class schedules are fully integrated. Getting from Haverford to Swarthmore or Penn for classes is a bit more challenging, and is roughly equivalent to getting from Swarthmore to any of the other three. So check through what Bryn Mawr has on offer for a student with your potential major and other interests.
And yes, it is perfectly OK to apply to both Haverford and Swarthmore. Lots of students do.
They are very similar in the things listed as important to you. My daughter applied to both Haverford and Swarthmore. She was waitlisted at Swarthmore and is now attending Haverford. This was for the class of 2023, not the current incoming class for the fall. Both are excellent schools. Haverford may be a little bit more laid back? Great opportunities for research and working with exceptional faculty at either one. She’s very content with her choice. Good luck.
I differ with the above comments in one way, and that is to carefully consider the “not overly competitive” aspect of Swarthmore. From everything I’ve heard, it’s on the “competitive” side of things–much, much more so than Haverford. Because tastes vary, I will leave it up to you and your assessment but I’d check that aspect carefully.
I have several anecdotes to point to from various people, none of whom know each other. The most striking is from someone who is one of the alumni interviewers. This person asked me “Should I tell them the truth?” And I was like: Truth about what? And this person confessed to me over lunch that s/he “never enjoyed” it, that Swat was great when s/he got there bc s/he’d come from a HS and family that didn’t value his/her intellect and everyone at Swat was very smart. That lasted for a short while and then s/he realized how relentless the academics and the students were about their (and this is my term but I feel I’m getting this person’s assessment fairly accurate) intellectual prowess. In the end that social and academic environment plus Swat’s relative isolation made life miserable for this person. Regarding the isolation, Swat students can go to Philly and the Tri-Co schools. There’s transportation etc. But they rarely do compared with H and BMC students.
H and BMC share values about how tests are taken, how they purposefully reduce tensions through communal governance, and so on. The schedules of BMC and H are meshed so that the students can take classes more easily between campuses. Buses run continually–although this year will be more challenging b/c COVID and they are only allowing few students per bus. They might use more buses during busy times. They share facilities, such that BMC students go to Haverford for art, and H students to to BMC for geology, the pool, etc. They agree on for example how to handle COVID issues and other major policy decisions that affect both campuses. They are practically two colleges for the price of one. Swat in contrast is just a little further out and it’s set where even finding the gate is challenging. And that seems to reflect somewhat a different culture. At H if you decide that you want to take classes at Swat, you can do so. That’s not an issue. You can also take classes at UPenn.
Other anecdotes are less colorful but all of them underline this same message about Swat’s relative competitiveness. None say the opposite. One is of a woman who attended and she said that freshman year, chemistry class, Day 1, the professor started on Chapter 3 and said blithely “You all should have had the first three chapters in HS.” Well not everyone had including her and she was lost immediately. That set the tone for her college career. Another person I know calls it “Sweatmore” for the workload. Another person who is still there was thrilled at first and now is not happy.
Maybe in my life I’ve only bumped into the people who found it this way. You should check it out thoroughly, but I’ve come to think of it as an LAC equivalent of U of Chicago, that relentless drive academically in the classroom combined with students who have fun being the cleverest or smartest person in the room. There are students for whom this atmosphere is wonderful (Full disclosure: I have several generations of family members including the present one who have attended U of Chicago.) And they do better socially and academically in this environment, if this indeed is the environment. Swat might be perfect for you. But check it thoroughly.
Quite a few kids from my son’s high school go to both. They all seem happy with their choices, but overall, the Haverford kids seem to be a bit more interested in a multi-faceted experience whereas the Swat kids are a littlemore head-down driven. A friend told DS one of the things he liked about Swat was that if he studied on a Friday night, it wasn’t weird because other kids were also studying. That same friend had a more social sibling who happily attends Haverford.
I think there are kids who could be happy at both, but overall, I would say that while Haverford is definitely "intellectual ", Swat is probably more “intense.” Both have strong academics and neither is a party school.
One perhaps minor thing to consider is that H and BMC have a line of small shops and services directly outside of their gates. Someone correct me but Swat seems not to have this …? Having small restaurants, a few coffee shops, places to get snacks, and near BMC there’s an arts movie theater, all seems to help the atmosphere feel more lively. In addition, along the H and BMC line is Villanova. While V doesn’t share facilities with the other two, it contributes students to that corridor. It helps that area feel like more’s going on.
My kid got into both schools but attended Swarthmore. I think that gardenstatelegal nailed it. “Head-down driven” is a good way to describe Swat; my kid says that the school is intense but is NOT competitive, and that there was a lot of collaboration (more than in his high school, certainly).
That said, beyond the intensity issue, I think for a lot of kids Haverford would have the edge for its proximity to BMC and (as Dustyfeathers noted) its more student-friendly town. But both schools would, I think, meet the criteria that the OP listed.
Overlap Schools:
Haverford’s overlaps are: Swarthmore, Hamilton, Davidson, Middlebury, Carleton, Wesleyan, Bowdoin, & Amherst.
Swarthmore’s overlaps: Wesleyan, Univ. of Chicago, Brown, Yale, Harvard, Princeton, UPenn, & Haverford.
Only overlap school in common is Wesleyan University.
As well as, as listed, each other.