Help - daughter has COMPLETELY changed mind about college - what now???

Parents Forum
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My thoughts in no particular order about your daughter’s situation:

  1. Just because she has expressed a bit of interest in theater and screenwriting right now doesn't mean that you should jump the gun and add a bunch of extra college applications at the last minute.
  2. Just because she's in ONE school play doesn't mean that she's going to become a theater major.
  3. She's trying on different hats right now. That is NORMAL!
  4. Engineering majors are hard. Perhaps taking a theater class in college might be a fun way for her to let off some steam.
  5. If you don't want to or can't pay for 5-6 years of college, determine what you ARE willing/can pay for. And then communicate that to your daughter. Give her a deadline. "We'll pay for X years of college. If you don't have a degree by then, you are on your own and have to pay for it yourself and you will have to support yourself while doing so."
  6. Just because she's temporarily expressed interest in ONE humanities subject doesn't mean that she should go to a LAC. Especially since she didn't really like any of the LACs she toured.
  7. If she's starting to wonder about having picked engineering as a major and isn't sure if she wants to be an engineer when she grows up, then help her find an engineer who's in the line of work that she would be studying and help her set up an informational interview with that person.
  8. If she starts to talk about wanting to do screen writing or go into theater, etc., then she needs to do an informational interview with somebody who is actually IN that line of work.
  9. go to Los Angeles and practically half the city (I'm exaggerating, of course) is a screen writer, a wanna be screen writer, an actor, a wanna be actor, or somebody who wants to get their foot in the door in the entertainment industry.
  10. Go to NYC and the theater business is hard to break into and it can be very competitive. You can find yourself having to work 1-2 other part time jobs in order to make ends meet...and do this for YEARS while you build up your theater resume and eventually land that perfect gig/role. And even then, it's only good for as long as the play/musical is being presented. Once the final curtain closes, then you are unemployed again and you have to start over like every other person. I have a friend who got an MFA in theater lighting design at a midwest university and he's been working in theater productions now for YEARS and it's STILL a challenge for him. He's often had to take gigs on traveling theater shows in order to pay the bills back home. So many months on the road.
  11. Going to a larger university (not an LAC) might actually be a better option for your daughter. Usually lots of majors to choose from, so if she temporarily changes out of engineering and then changes her mind back to engineering again, she won't have to transfer to another university. Not all LAC's offer engineering as a major.
62

But what @gearmom suggested is what is required to become a performer. A university degree isn’t required. She’ll need high end training to “keep her options open”. I have two kids who are into performing. One is in university. She performed professionally through middle school and high school. She had an agent. People who are successful performers have many years of training, starting when they are very young. Only a small percentage of those with many years of training make a living at performing.

To quote, type [ QUOTE] at the beginning of the text, without the space and [ /QUOTE] at the end of the text, without the space.

63

All of the schools she has been accepted at allow exploration and double majors. UMD also. Why panic or change anything? DS1 has CE major and a Japanese major. No big deal to explore or add on (except a time consuming theater). What is really hard is to add CE. Let it ride. She is in the right place. You don’t change your plan for a hobby.

64

My D is a sophomore at Pitt. Went in thinking math, now has changed to dual major in Economics and Business. Engineering there has pretty strict 1st year requirements, but computer science (as opposed to computer engineering) is not in the engineering school and would allow much more exploration.

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@NLEPeeps "I’m a little lost as to how to direct her - she is talking about drama or screenwriting, despite never having expressed an interest in these before! "

Education should be a broadening experience. Some “engineering” schools have come to this conclusion and have put a major effort into their educational blueprint to nourish and develop interdisciplinary thinking. A major example of such an effort is WPI’s interdisciplinary, project based system (see https://www.wpi.edu/project-based-learning/wpi-plan). They believe the application of interdisciplinary research in the solution of real world problems. An individually designed minor in the humanities is also required of all science/engineering majors.

As direct result of this 40+ year design effort, a very robust Humanities faculty and a wide selection of courses programs have developed. This same kind of “out of the box” thinking nurtured new majors including Interactive Media & Game Development (see https://www.wpi.edu/academics/departments/interactive-media-game-development). The latest data (class of 2016) reports 40 graduates with 23 taking jobs with average salaries of $71,644, five attending grad school (Northeastern, Rhode Island School of Design and WPI) while seven were still seeking employment st the time of the study. Many students double majored in Computer Science and some with Arts & Humanities and Professional writing.

Regardless of what you major in, you may minor in Drama (see https://www.wpi.edu/academics/study/drama/theatre-minor). With this minor you can perform, design, direct, produce, or do something else entirely. “New Voices” has been running continuously for 34 years to present student written productions (see http://users.wpi.edu/~theatre/). Very few do, but you can major in Drama and would still have to complete the WPI degree requirements (see For a project-based engineering curriculum developing leadership, innovative problem solving, interdisciplinary collaboration and global competencies).

WPI seeks out and encourages students with broadly ranging interests. We know they make the best professionals, even in the STEM world. In 2016 WPI was awarded the prestigious GordonPrize by the National Academy of Engineering “For a project-based engineering curriculum developing leadership, innovative problem solving, interdisciplinary collaboration and global competencies.” See https://www.nae.edu/Activities/Projects/Awards/GordonPrize/GordonWinners.aspx#tabs.

CMU has very highly regarded engineering college and a serious national reputation in drama. You might ask them about the options and flexibility of switching or blending majors at CMU.

66

Pitt also has very good writing programs. My daughter wanted nothing more than to become a writer when she was a senior in high school, and Pitt was very much in the mix for her. She had a number of friends going there whom she knew from selective writing/arts summer programs. And in general, at her public school in Philadelphia, Pitt was the in-state public university where kids went who were bona fide Ivy candidates but weren’t accepted or didn’t get enough aid. There are some very smart, very ambitious kids at Pitt.

Re CMU: I think you will find that CMU is not known for “options and flexibility of switching or blending majors,” especially between different colleges. It is very, very selective in both Computer Science and Drama. Both programs are very silo-ed (although I think CS allows some courses elsewhere in the university), very intense, and very professional. Someone in the position of the OP’s daughter would probably not be a viable candidate for the Drama program. There is a small joint-degree program that includes Computer Science and some aspect of Fine Arts, including Drama, but it requires separate admission to each school (including as an internal transfer). I don’t think it’s a program with a lot of students.

67

My friend’s son studied engineering of some sort at U of Rochester. He had performed in HS in generally supporting roles and really enjoyed it. In college, he participated in a number of theater productions as a non major and decided that performing life wasn’t for him.

68

I think there’s an ideal middle way if she can do a CS BA - allows for tailoring a strong CS major and adding another major, a minor, or electives in whatever she’s interested in. In CS, it’ll be what she’s able to do, not her degree, that gets her a job (how efficient is she at debugging, for instance - not whether she took x or z class.)
CSE has very, very little leeway and few electives. Classes are almost all mandatory and on a specific sequence. She may balk at having her whole college career chosen for her - but a CS BA, which would still be in STEM, would have all the flexibility of a BA while not giving up on a technical career. Considering the dearth of female CS majors, it should quiet any fear you havenasbto her future. And cs as a side gig bests waitressing. :wink:
(Also, if admitted to Engineering, she should be able to switch to CS relatively easily during orientation - do check whether there are special barriers to switch to cs though, especially at UMD).
At Pitt she would prepare the B.Phil through Honors. It’s pretty flexible.
She could apply DUS and Schreyer at Penn State (nobody is enrolled in a major except nursing students. All students take “entrance to major” classes over four semesters, including 4-5 premajors classes which typically dovetail gen eds and meet many major requirements, so that you could take 4 different specific entrance to major classes along with the entrance to major classes common to all majors and gen eds.)
UWisconsin could be a good choice too.
UMN Twin Cities has a good CS BA program designed for a major+ minor.

69

There is no reason she cannot explore and continue with engineering at her admitted schools. Plenty of CE or CS kids double major. Plenty of CE or CS kids are in the honors program where she can take anything from Jane Austin to philosophy.

She might be having a case of nerves. She might have simply had a fun experience at a school play. Once she shuts the door on CE it will be difficult to go back. You can easily be a CE major who explores writing. You cannot easily be a writing major who explores CE. You can get your undergrad degree in CE with a writing minor. You would actually be very valuable as a technical writer. She can have a CE degree and then do something completely different for a career with that as a back up. My guy is just normal smart. He is taking CE and Japanese which is a completely new language for him. He has completed a math minor, is finishing a cyber security minor and will be starting a robotics minor. You have some space to try different things. I don’t know that I would turn away from a good CE choice, which you have researched, for the possibility of maybe something else. She has not put in the time for theater that her peers have. She does not seem to want to train like they are training. It is a hobby. There is no reason she cannot have a hobby and a CE or CS major at most places.

70

Three random ideas:

Entertainment Engineering at U Nevada Las Vegas. Their grads design all kinds of cool stuff.

UMBC for theater as the department is smaller than at UMCP.

If you are close enough, the Summer Dinner Theatre program at Montgomery College - Rockville campus is open enrollment for everyone. She can try out for an acting/singing/dancing part, or just walk into one of the generic backstage positions.

71

I don’t see this a completely changing her mind at all. She didn’t like small LACs so has a few large universities to pick from and they all offer a full array of CS, engineering, and arts and sciences classes.

72

Perhaps a double major or major/minor will get her what she wants. She still needs to earn a living, and engineers are heavily involved in the technical side of creative production as well.

73

@JHS @retiredfarmer CMU’s drama department operates as a conservatory, and students are not able to double-major. Other majors within the CFA (College of Fine Arts) do allow double majors, and just under 1% of the students at CMU participate in their BXA program which supports double majors across the different colleges (e.g. stagecraft and CS).

@NLEPeeps I’d also recommend looking into drama clubs at the MD, Pitt, et al. CMU’s Scotch and Soda for example is open to all students except drama majors. She could do that while still doing the freshman CE curriculum and get a better feel for whether she wants to major in Theatre, Minor in it, or just take the “appreciation” class to fulfill the FA core requirement.

One other note…why it may be challenging, it’s not impossible to transfer into engineering (albeit CE may be more difficult at some schools). Many (many) years ago I changed from Architecture to Civil Engineering after my sophomore year. The only useful AP credit that I had coming into college was Calc 1, and none of the Architecture technical courses could apply to engineering. I took Physics 1 and a math elective over the summer so that I could get on track to join the sophomore CivE’s in the fall. Overall, it took me 9 full time semesters plus the two summer courses.

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IF she’s truly interested in pursuing theater AND CE majors (and I suspect she’ll change her mind), I would look at which schools will grant her significant AP/DE/CLEP credit, unless she’s prepared to do five or six years. I just learned of a student who earned dual degrees in engineering and theater at Bama and is now headed to a paid Disney engineering internship, which sounds amazing, but he had to have come in with upper-class standing to have been able to do that in four years.

I do think a university with a wide range of options makes a lot more sense than a LAC, unless your student has NO idea what she wants to study. There are some larger ones that may be a good fit, but it’s probably late to be applying to them.

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@JHS CMU is somewhat siloed, but the CS major actually requires you to have a minor. A good number do related things like robotics or math or a science, but at least one kid did a bagpipes performance music major. And someone in the school had a robot programmed to play Pomp and Circumstance on the bagpipes for the SCS graduation.

76

If it’s in the budget, Why not apply to Lehigh Lafayette and U of Rochester which encourage exploration and have engineering? Then she can make some decisions in 4-5 months when she has thought a bit about it.

77

My D is a Senior at UMD. She is not in Engineering or CS. She actually applied Undecided and was admitted to Letters and Sciences. She was also admitted to Pitt, Delaware, and a few others.

She had a major in mind, but decided on a different major around Thanksgiving of her first semester. She applied to that Major at the end of the first semester and was admitted. It;s one of the Limited Enrollment Programs (LEPs) (Restricted Admission) No one rushed here into this decision, she did for her own reasons. In her Junior year, she declared a Minor also.

At UMD, both Engineering and CS are very rigorous Majors. I’ve been working in CS for a long time and I work in the DC area. I know many UMD grads in both disciplines. Engineering is a LEP. CS is Not. Starting either one later requires a certain amount of catch-up That’s just a fact.

Every year, about 1300 students, admitted to UMD, seeking an Engineering major are denied and put into Letters and Sciences. However, if they take the Gateway courses and get the required GPA, applications for an internal transfer are NOT competitive. Lots of students, who think they want to be Engineers, decide otherwise once they start taking real engineering courses. They switch into other majors.

I am not aware of any students having issues if they need an extra semester or two, to graduate (other than time and money).

Also UMD seems pretty generous with AP credit, which can give a student a leg up.

UMD also offers courses during winter and summer breaks for students who want or need them (these are extra cost also)

78

@NLEPeeps

True story.

Our number one kiddo was a music performance major in college…both undergrad and grad school. He is a freelance musician, and is paying all of his bills and supporting himself doing music, and music related work.

Our number two kid has an engineering degree that she will never use. She finished her degree requirements…but also picked up a second less practical major…biology.

My point is…kids in the fine arts can support themselves working in the fine arts.

Just because a kid gets a degree in engineering doesn’t mean that kid will ever USE that to get an engineering job.

My kid just felt that engineering wasn’t her cup of tea…and she is pursuing other options. But the reality is…she will never be a high paid engineer. She doesn’t like the field.

If your daughter doesn’t want to be an engineer…please…please…don’t make her feel guilty about it.

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@thumper1 I’m sure kiddo #1 had been studying and practicing music for many many years before college.

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Kid who major in the fine arts do not have to end up working in that field. A theater degree is highly valued for skills in public speaking, personal presence, and articulation, which are applicable to everything from law to sales and marketing to teaching to speech therapy, and many others. And a bachelors degree in theater gives access to jobs that “require a bachelor’s” as well as to grad and professional schools.

Clearly she loved doing the high school musical. I know other kids who have done one musical in senior year whose paths were altered some.

She obviously applied to schools with engineering in mind. I would encourage her to pick 2-3 schools with her new interests in mind and apply to them. It is a much happier late spring if all options are covered.

She is not going to make it into an audition BFA program but there are plenty of colleges where she can try some theater courses and decide on a major. There are also plenty of schools where she can do extracurricular theater and major in something else.

I think our kids are made to feel, usually by schools, that they need to know their career early. But the work world doesn’t really fall into the simple easy categories. If career and finances are her concern, encourage her to look at craigslist and, in MA, hireculture.org.

Many of us had kids in the arts or music who used the “apply to all options” strategy and then they decided in late April.

Some possibles: Bennington, Drew, Skidmore, Vassar, Barnard, Kenyon, Oberlin, Macalaster, Muhlenberg, Brandeis, Syracuse, Hollins, Bard, Wesleyan, Williams, Lewis and Clark.