<p>One thing UF, FSU and other Florida universities have in common equally today is a cash crunch. UF and FSU shouldn’t be bragging about what they did in the past or what their rankings are today, but rather the universities should be concentrating on how they are going to fund their futures and what changes need to be made in the way they operate.</p>
<p>Federal stimulus money is running out, endowments are shrinking, funding by the state of Florida is being reduced, and at the same time, expenses are increasing. How well Florida universities meet today’s money challenges will largely determine the future academic integrity of the universities.</p>
<p>Rivalry and competition have their place, but practicality and reality dictate that schools like FSU and UF cannot realistically seek to be better than each other in everything. Striving for excellence in some things sometimes means doing without a few things like trying to be good in everything. Both schools don’t and shouldn’t have agriculture or veterinary colleges, it does not make economic sense for the state of Florida and its university system. If FSU has a fine arts dept., is it necessary that UF have a fine arts college too? How many medical colleges and law schools are really needed in Florida public universities? Too much duplication in Florida universities is a wasteful use of limited financial resources.</p>
<p>Hopefully the Florida universities Board of Governors, university boards of trustees, college administrators, Florida legislators, alumni, students, faculty, and everyone else involved in Florida higher education will work together to improve and keep Florida universities going and allow them to get better. The alternative is universities like FSU and UF will have fewer tenured professors, more adjunct and inexperienced instuctors, fewer courses and academic depts., larger classes and poorer opportunities for learning for students squeezed into overcrowded Florida public universities.</p>
<p>UF’s strengths over FSU is more than just in Ag and Engineering (undergrad and grad). You gotta add business, communications, journalism, medicine, practically all the health science fields, etc… but strength isn’t based on history so what matters is right now. </p>
<p>You don’t agree with the USNews rankings that say UF is ranked over FSU in many areas. Fine. Then if not based on rankings, what do you base your criteria? Endowment? Research money? What?</p>
<p>A friend’s child returned from a UF visit recently. They touted research dollars and endowment, neither of which they could explain nor connect to their proposed undergraduate education. Great marketing campaign. ;)</p>
<p>The medicine program at UF is older and established. They have good research programs. Indeed, the bulk of UF’s research comes from Shands. However, the UF Med school follows the old model where they rely on a single teaching hospital. Florida State’s [College</a> of Medicine<a href=“established%20in%202000”>/url</a> is just now coming up to a full student load of 120 students and is a 21st century med school and based on the [url=<a href=“http://med.fsu.edu/education/Regional/default.asp]distributed”>http://med.fsu.edu/education/Regional/default.asp]distributed</a> campus concept](<a href=“http://med.fsu.edu/]College”>http://med.fsu.edu/). It is too early to tell, unless Sunny wants to weigh in with an informed opinion, which model works better. However, if corporate America is any guide - sending students around to different campuses for different methods, instructors, environments and facilities is preferable as a societal good or to build a more competent manager. FSU Med also has some 1500 MDs who participate for the med students at these various hospitals and facilities, which is an enormous advantage in teaching experience. We should also note that UF Med was complaining about the better funding FSU med students received.</p>
<p>As for dentistry, well that is a red herring you’re offering as UF has the only state college for dentists. FSU has the only National High Magnetic Field Laboratory in Florida, so in parallel they greatly exceed whatever UF is doing on campus in this area.</p>
<p>As to how I think universities should be measured the answer is complicated. As birds of a feather flock together, so should like university programs - to a granular, area level and cover the objective outputs particularized to each discipline. Subjective measures should be minimized or eliminated as these tend to reward established programs. How is that Harvard, for example, always rates in the top 10 but seldom falters? In the Olympics we see variation from competition to competition but less so in university rankings. I find this lack of variation indicative of sclerotic thinking and, likely, metrics.</p>
<p>For example, Simon Hix in his rating of world political science departments is more right than wrong with his approach:
<p>UF/Shands have like 10 hospitals/facilities, where the two teaching hospitals are Level I trauma centers in Gainesville and Jacksonville. The difference between UF and FSU’s med schools is that Shands doctors are actually UF/Shands employees. FSU on the other hand PARTNER with already existing hospitals to allow FSU med students to learn at these hospitals where the facility is primarily operated by the hospital itself. As I’ve shown you in a past thread, many of the facilities that the FSU COM partner with also partner with other academic institutions. UF has its own exclusive health care system that it calls “Shands” where its VP reports to Machen. Understandably, FSU’s COM is new so it needs time to mature and grow.</p>
<p>Think about the current situation with UM and Jackson Memorial Hospital. Jackson is in so much dept right now they are going to file for bankruptcy. How do you think this partnership will effect UM COM? Do they end up partnering with someone else?</p>
<p>UF shares in the magnet program by hosting their own research facility to do MRI experiments on brain and neural science related tissue that is used by the department of psychology, biomedical engineering, and college of medicine. Btw, a good buddy of mine hooked me up with a complete brain scan on one of the MRI machines for some experiment the department was conducting. I have a 3d model and over 1000 cross-sectional slices of my entire brain stored on a DVD. Coolest thing I’ve ever done. :)</p>
<p>After watching D1 go through the med school admissions process at various schools and states, I think most docs are a ferociously independent bunch. I doubt if it matters much to them if their checks are signed by a university comptroller or the COO of the hospital administration. Most are united with a passion to practice medicine and to heck with the administrivia.</p>
<p>That’s a difficulty I have with some of these “ratings” conversations. Once you reach a critical mass of resources and maturity (which Florida State and Florida clearly have) the differences seem negligible or even indecipherable. I’ve read some of the discussions on CC over time on these issues and after a while the discussion resolves to parsing the numbers of [angels</a> who can dance on the head of a pin](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_dance_on_the_head_of_a_pin%3F]angels”>How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? - Wikipedia).</p>
<p>So, if I ever feel so rude as to ask that you need your head examined, you can confidently respond you’ve been there and bought the tee shirt. Seriously, that’s really cool.</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter to the doctor who is paying them. But it matters that the Shands health care system’s mission is completely aligned with UF and its COM’s mission because they are both directed by the same person. One can say that UF/Shands is too focused on medical research, but the new UF/Shands VP from Rochester University will bolster the primary care side.</p>
<p>Actually I do have a tee shirt from it! My brain was analyzed by a bunch of research people but not examined by a doctor… so I could still need to get my head examined. ;)</p>
<p>I hate to break it to you but US news rankings mean absolutely nothing. You should actually go to both universities and develop an independent opinion instead of just looking at some arbitrary rating and deciding that UF must be so much greater than FSU. For example I chose FSU over UF because of the seven year Medical Scholars Program and because of the presence of a biomathematics major. Also the people at FSU are much nicer and less arrogant than people at UF. The staff at FSU is infinitely more helpful and it is much easier to get around on FSU’s smaller campus. Also, dorms are better, class sizes are smaller for honors students, and research opportunities are equal at both universities. Ratings truly mean nothing it all depends on value for the individual. For me FSU is more useful is it has the programs i need and i find the people to be much nicer, which provides for a better college experience. Perhaps you find that UF better suits your needs. No one school is better than the other it just depends what you are looking for in your college experience. However, if you just rely on silly ratings than you might find yourself in an unfortunate situation.</p>
<p>All of a sudden, even by US News rankings, FSU and UF aren’t so far apart, simply because we removed schools that aren’t sufficiently similar. (Have to wonder why you overlooked this ranking…just a bit)</p>
<p>Then, let’s recall that US News rankings are based significantly (25% of the total) on personal opinion that can be improperly influenced:</p>
<p>Wow…what rankings remain now are a bit more uncertain. Then, let’s recall that U.S. News operates to make a profit. They seek to sell as many copies as possible, as often as possible, and charge the highest possible rates for advertisements in their publications, which includes Internet publications. They seek controversy, perpetual controversy, because it sells what they write.</p>
<p>Now - would you want to build a nuclear power plant in your city with only U.S. News approved graduates or would it be wise to be just a bit more skeptical of them and seek better measures?</p>
<p>I understand why you look at the rankings and use that to factor in to your decision. There is much focus on those things especially among high achieving academic students. The reality is however, as the previous posters have suggested, that the rankings really should not be a primary determinant of where you decide to go to school, simply because the rankings are far from perfect, a bit outdated and not reflective of the campus experience you will encounter as a student.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, academics are extremely important, however both UF and FSU have strong overall academics. What really matters, is how much you choose to get out of your educational experience. You should most definitely visit both campuses, speak with students etc and see where you feel most comfortable. I know in Florida, there is enormous focus on UF v. FSU in terms of academic standing. </p>
<p>Once you leave the borders of Florida, most people you talk to don’t know or care about the difference between the two. </p>
<p>Both are great places to attend college and have tremendous things to offer their students.</p>
<p>Our s is at FSU and loves it. Good luck wherever you choose. the good news is you at least have choices and good ones at that.</p>
<p>I disagree with that. People in their perspective industries know which schools are tops in their field. For example, do you honestly think the HR department of an engineering company wont know the difference between UF and FSU engineering? Or do you really think that film companies won’t already know that FSU has a film department and UF doesn’t? Your argument about perception/reputation outside of Florida is only valid when it comes to sports. Someone who isn’t sports inclined won’t know which school are the Gators, Seminoles, or Knights. Every company has a list of preferred schools for any given field that they choose to hire from – that is a fact. Will the HR person know the mascots of the schools on that list? Probably not unless they are into sports.</p>
<p>“Who knows? Winning two national championships in nine months probably makes making out with a fat girl not so bad.”</p>
<p>Ouch!</p>
<p>The caliber of women at FSU is unarguably better, but most people don’t base their college choice solely on the opposite gender.</p>
<p>Parent2noles ranking of just public schools actually widens the discrepancy between FSU and UF, especially considering their are only 64 schools on that list.</p>
<p>FSU is behind Bama, Auburn, and three SUNY’s. </p>
<p>Outside of Florida, I bet both universities are respected equally, but in-state UF is perceived as being a clear step ahead FSU.</p>
<p>On the other hand, one may argue that some of the school’s ranked ahead of FSU completely invalidate the rankings. In my senior year of high school, Drexel BEGGED me to apply to their school, even waiving application fees and essay requirements. They are ranked ahead of FSU? Give me a break. </p>
<p>Iowa State admits over 85 percent of the people who apply. They probably don’t even have a formal rejection letter. They are ranked ahead of FSU?</p>
<p>Those are just two examples. I’m sure when I go to a potential employer with my FSU degree, they’re going to say, “well US News only has your school at 102; you’re not qualified to work here.”</p>
Seriously, that’s really cool.</p>
My brain was analyzed by a bunch of research people but not examined by a doctor… so I could still need to get my head examined. ;)</p>