Help me help my divorced friend vs. scheming husband.

Paying for College
1

<p>I'm helping a good friend deal with her ex-husband. </p>

<p>Their divorce settlement set aside money to cover a state college. The husband wants their kid to go to a private college and he earns enough money to pay for it. -- but he wants his ex-wife to pay as much as possible. My friend is not as well off financially and has little saved for retirement. She wants the kid to go to a state school.</p>

<p>The husband wants to change the divorce settlement, I'm helping her respond.</p>

<p>Their combined incomes are well over $200,000, there's home equity and there is at least $150,000 in 529 accounts, so I don't think they qualify for financial aid. As for merit -- the kid is applying to reaches so I doubt she'll get any merit (if she manages to get in). The idea that the kid look for colleges for which she might get merit aid has fallen on deaf ears.</p>

<p>Husband insists wife fill out both FAFSA and Profile.</p>

<p>I understand filling out FAFSA, to get a Stafford loan. </p>

<p>If they do not qualify for financial aid, is there a reason to do the Profile? He claims that their kid cannot get work/study jobs, grants or loans unless Profile is completed. Is this true across the board, or does this vary from college to college so it's worth calling each college to find out?</p>

<p>I know that divorced parents fill out the FAFSA separately. Is this true for the Profile, too? (He wants her to fill out the forms and then give them to him. I keep telling her that her ex does not need to see her financial information.)</p>

<p>And then he has the nerve to ask her to apply for any "federal parental education loans" that he promises to pay off. </p>

<p>My friend is torn. She knows her budget and what she can afford, but her husband and kid are guilting her into paying more. I keep telling her that protecting her retirement has to come first. The husband won't let the kid work (!) and insists that the parents should pay all expenses for entertainment, the kid's car and "summer programs during college."</p>

<p>One other thing -- the husband wants my friend to close the college accounts in her name and transfer them to new accounts under his name, and to give the husband a durable power of attorney for the 529 account that's in her name. Any reason not to do this?</p>

2

<p>She shouldn’t change ANYTHING that puts her at a disadvantage or lessens her power. She shouldn’t feel guilted into anything…including pricier schools.</p>

<p>ONLY the custodial parent does FAFSA.</p>

<p>Both parents do CSS ONLY at schools that require both parents.</p>

<p>Who is the custodial parent.</p>

3

<p>She is the custodial parent. Based on what I know of her financial situation, I don’t think they would get much financial aid even on her income alone.</p>

<p>Obviously I agree with your first point. I repeat it to her constantly. She would have folded weeks ago if I wasn’t telling her not to.</p>

<p>What do you mean that both parents do CSS (is that the profile?) at schools that require both parents?</p>

4

<p>Only SOME schools require CSS (usually the top schools). And only some of the CSS schools require both divorced parents’ info. Many don’t. Many only require custodial parents’ info…but those are usually the ones that don’t give a lot of aid.</p>

<p>It sounds like the ex knows that the mom can’t pay a lot for college, but he’s using this as a wedge to make her “look bad” to their child…(Uh, I will pay, but your mom won’t.)</p>

<p>Help your friend figure out how much she CAN pay each year (and be conservative with the figure since costs go up each year). Then, once she’s determined that, she needs to inform her child.</p>

5

<p>She absolutely does not need to give her ex the CSS (actually, she will either fill out the CSS Profile or the NCP, depending on whether the kid lived more with her than with him last year). When she fills it out it goes to the school, and he does NOT see it. He can’t get access through the school, so she shouldn’t worry about that.</p>

<p>She should also hold her ground on hanging onto the accounts in her own name and not allow any legal change to the divorce decree. And she should not allow herself to be bullied into taking out any loans.</p>

<p>I see nothing wrong with filling out the forms (CSS/NPC) as long as she tells her son and ex how much she can pay and sticks to her guns on it no matter what FA awards come back. And make sure the kid and her ex know that is her position. If he wants the kid to go to a more expensive school, he should pay for it. And if the kid wants it and the dad can pony up the extra, the kid still ought to work and earn his own spending money. My kids also pay their own expenses for summer internships when they don’t live at home, too. </p>

<p>She has plenty of power in this situation. However… her ex is surely positioning her as the “bad guy” to her son in all of this, which is also damaging. But I think she needs to stick to her guns on this if it is what she can afford. She should be sure her son applies to a few schools they know are affordable with what she can pay and whatever the ex is willing to pay.</p>

6

<p>The privates they are looking at are the top schools – I know Cornell, Tufts and Hamilton are on the list.</p>

<p>Yes, mom2colleges, that is exactly what the husband is doing. You’ve described it to a tee. I keep telling the mom that she shouldn’t have to buy her kid’s love, and that her financial future is more important than her kid going to a private college. The kid would do fine at a state school. She’s had that conversation with her kid, but the kid is guilting her out.</p>

<p>What are the reasons for her to hold onto the money in her name? I’d like to justify it for her. </p>

<p>I still don’t understand why they need to fill out the CSS/NCP if they don’t qualify for financial aid.</p>

7

<p>Do not move any money from the mothers control. I have seen ugly divorced couples and college financing disasters. Here is one reason the Dad may want control - if the divorce decree spells out financing (i.e. 50% from each parent for state school) the account could be counted towards the controlling parents 50%. In other words the Dad could take the 529 and spend it as his “share” or the mother could keep the account and spend it as her “share”. </p>

<p>The 3 schools you mention all would require the CSS Profile from both the custodial and noncustodial parent. Each parent would submit their financial information directly and not share it with one another. Only the custodial parent would file the FAFSA. Filing FAFSA allows the student to obtain students loans. </p>

<p>The only way I would change the court agreement would have the Dad put his “share” in an account that could be drawn on by the party paying the bills (probably the mother). It is always difficult paying the tuition bills and hoping the other party reimburses their portion. I speak from experience.</p>

8

<p>I still don’t understand why they need to fill out the CSS/NCP if they don’t qualify for financial aid.</p>

<p>there is no need. No one has to fill it out. She can refuse. However, if she wants to fill it out, she can. If she wants to fill out FAFSA so her child can take a small student loan, she can.</p>

<p>The child will NOT get work study no matter what because you have to have need…and you say that she has no need.</p>

<p>I’m wondering if the ex is demanding that she fill out these papers because he thinks he’ll get to see the info…and use that info in some way. But, he’d never see her info from the college.</p>

<p>Does she get paid any kind of support? </p>

<p>I don’t know how this all works - court wise - but maybe he thinks that if she fills out the CSS Profile and FAFSA, he can get a court to order that he can see that info and use that info in some way to his advantage?</p>

<p>Anyway…you do think that he’s trying to make her look bad to the child.</p>

<p>She should NOT give up ANYTHING…not accts in her name, not anything. Help her figure out what she can pay, and then she can tell her child. Period. </p>

<p>She shouldn’t let herself get caught up in some game the ex is playing. Don’t play the game.</p>

9

<p>Perhaps the OP should have a conversation about the finances with her kid. I’m not saying she should bad mouth the ex but tell her/him the reality and then hopefully the kid is mature enough to put the dots together about the drama the ex is pulling. Maybe the kid will realize going to state school is not so bad especially if there is an honors college.</p>

10

<p>Is the kid interested in any of these schools for which she qualifies, which (from the kid’s point of view) could minimize the effect of the divorced parents’ drama on of her college funding?</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html#post16451378[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html#post16451378&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-4.html#post16224918[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-4.html#post16224918&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation-56.html#post16465904[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/national-merit-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation-56.html#post16465904&lt;/a&gt; (if National Merit)</p>

<p>The kid needs to realize that she is being used as a pawn in the parents’ continuing fight against each other and needs to minimize her exposure to the effects of that.</p>

11

<p>Lawyer up. If he’s trying to change the divorce settlement. No, an attorney won’t know the ins and outs of financial aid, but can certainly insist on a proportionate split, after accounting for Mom’s income, her particular expenses and retirement needs.</p>

<p>Mom needs to have the same frank talk with kiddo that we advocate for all parents: “here is what I can pay.” If dad earns more, can’t she simply state that he does and perhaps he would be willing to pick up the additional costs? I hate to call this throwing the guilt trip back on Dad, but she didn’t start it.</p>

<p>But- how much is she reasonably willing to pay? Just as we tell all parents, there is an expectation from the colleges. There isn’t always allowance for discretionary spending (eg, that higher mortgage or other needs.) Most of us would prefer to divert college costs into retirement. Has she run an NPC or sample Fafsa? Does she know what her budget will allow, with some retirement set-aside? Or is she looking only at the 150k?</p>

12

<p>What about private schools that offer merit aid if he is not interested in their state schools? If there is $150K in a 529 account, that is about $37K/year covered. If he goes someplace that offers him 15K of merit money, that gets up to about $52,000, and it seems like the he could work summers and the parents could split the rest, or he could take out loans to cover. Maybe this isn’t so much about TOP schools as it is about not going to his state schools – I can understand how some kids don’t want to attend their state public schools. The dad and student might not even be aware of those options.</p>

<p>If he has the stats for a place like Cornell, then he likely can get decent merit aid at schools like Macalester, Dickinson, Kenyon, Earlham, Grinnell, Occidental, etc. Maybe the solution isn’t “top school” or “state school”, but second tier private school. Or someplace like St. Mary’s College of Maryland (state honors college in Maryland, quite rural but almost a summer-camp type atmosphere on the St. Mary’s River, and less than top private colleges even for OOS).</p>

13

<p>ucbalumnus: Kid is not National Merit. As I said, the topic of applying to a school that would give significant merit is a total nonstarter. (Father thinks kid is “special,” father is an education snob who wants kid to go to top selective school – although kid doesn’t have the stats so who knows what will happen there. Father thinks kid needs to devote time to important studying and should never, never work. Oy.)</p>

<p>SweetTea: Mom has had financial conversations with kid (based on my advice). Dad seems to be winning the public relations war. Unfortunately, kid hates the state schools and doesn’t want to go to. Frankly, I’m not even sure this kid has the stats for state schools to be safeties.</p>

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<p>OK – this is what I needed to confirm. That was my impression. </p>

<p>I really cannot figure out why this father insists on mom filling out profile when this family clearly does not qualify for aid. Unless it’s just a power play and he wants her to be miserable, which she would be if she has to do the profile. </p>

<p>I don’t totally understand the game the dad is playing. There’s plenty of money on his side to pay for private college. But he’s trying to squeeze every penny out of ex-wife and then tells kid that she’s the problem. I know she’s told him more about her financial situation than she should (and she is willing to tell him everything and I keep stopping her!). I don’t know what he has to gain from seeing her numbers.</p>

<p>Here’s the thing – she really can’t afford to pay much of anything. She was assuming the divorce settlement covered her, since state school would be paid for. She’s been guilted into telling me she’ll pay $20-25,000 total, which she would take out of her retirement account (about 25% of what she has). She loves her kid and thinks kid has worked hard and “deserves” the best school out there. I’m trying my darndest to tell her NOT to take money from retirement. </p>

<p>And I am beyond furious at his insistence that she apply for parent educational loans that he (the father) would pay back. If he wants loans, he can take out loans. The idea that her credit is affected for a loan that he says he’ll pay back – my blood boils. Trust me, if I have to handcuff her I won’t let her do that.</p>

14

<p>intparent: Kid doesn’t have the stats for Cornell or Tufts. so doesn’t have stats to get merit at the schools you mentioned. Plus she will ONLY look at NE schools. I think Union and Wheaton are also on list, so there may be merit possibilities there. I would build a totally different college list for this kid, but at this point all I can do is roll my eyes. I made all those college suggestions to mom, but dad is in charge of the college search.</p>

<p>Mom can’t run a sample FAFSA or NPC – her financial situation is not straightforward so the results would be totally wrong.</p>

<p>Now, I won’t go into details, but there are things she is doing financially that I don’t agree with, and she could definitely increase her income and make this easier. I’ve taken on the role of supporter and protector, though, so I don’t feel I can go there.</p>

15

<p>

Please tell me she doesn’t believe that!

He’s perfectly welcome to pay whatever he wants. Not letting the kid work is really going to put her at a disadvantage after graduation, when she’ll have a hard time getting hired without any prior work experience.

Sanity? She needs to lawyer up. NOW.

I do. It’s called “make life miserable for the ex-wife.” She needs to realize that anything he requests is going to hurt her. By design. No way in hell should she take anything out of her retirement account!</p>

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<p>fireandrain is there any chance the school guidance counselor could echo what you are telling the mom? Maybe the kid will listen to a 3rd party in regards to realistic schools and costs. You are being a good friend and what the dad is doing makes me pretty mad too!</p>

17

<p>Their divorce settlement set aside money to cover a state college</p>

<p>This has been settled, and the mom just needs to hold her ground with that issue and keeping the college money in HER name. The issue isn’t REALLY whether she can afford a more expensive school. Maybe she can…at the expense of her retirement. The ex can’t make that decision. maybe he’s going to come into some inheritance so his situation is different, even if their earnings are similar.</p>

<p>She doesn’t have to play this game. The divorce was settled, stick with that.</p>

<p>If the student has the stats to go ELSEWHERE with merit that will get costs down to the state school, then fine. If DAD wants to kick in more money, then fine.</p>

<p>the husband wants my friend to close the college accounts in her name and transfer them to new accounts under his name, and</p>

<p>He can want all he wants…so what. He can want her to put her own savings in his name…so what. Who cares what he “wants”. She seems to be oddly controlled by what her ex wants. The beauty of divorce? You no longer have to give a rat’s patootie about what the other wants.</p>

18

<p>Okay, it just isn’t real punishment to fill out the CSS Profile. It is a minor pain, but she might as well do it. They might get lucky and get some money from some schools, and if not – well, then the dad knows she is not hiding assets or income that could pay for the school. And if the kid isn’t getting into Tufts or Cornell anyway with their stats, then that is on the kid and the dad to slog through the application and deal with her rejection. I would just let that one play out if I were the mom, and consider filling out the Profile to be a small price to pay so the kid can at least say she tried for top schools and not blame her mom for standing in the way.</p>

<p>It seems to me that all you can do is offer some school options and discourage her as best you can from taking out loans… You could still try to get them to add St. Mary’s College of Maryland to the list as a NE option. Do you know the kid’s actual stats? What state does she live in? If you post this info, we might come up with a few NE options with merit aid. What about Gettysburg, St. Lawrence, Muhlenberg, or Allegheny? If nothing else, I assume she would like her kid to have some acceptances and choices in the spring – if they only have a couple of matches on the list, that could be tough.</p>

<p>Also, if she is going to consider giving him control of the accounts, she should consult a lawyer about that. But there is no need to “lawyer up” if she plans to stand her ground unless he takes some legal action. I am divorced and went through 2 college searches with an ex involved. Legally it seems like she is on solid ground to ignore ALL of his demands if she chooses to.</p>

19

<p>Your friend is just letting ex and maybe kids push her around. She doesn’t HAVE to do anything. She can tell her kid that the state school amount of $X is what’s there for college. That anything else the kid has to get elsewhere, and she can’t afford to pay more including through loans. If kid can get merit or financial aid from the schools to make up the gap, earn the amount needed to make up the gap or if dad will pay via loans, then, that’s all well and good, and end of the matter. If she allows herself to get guilted into paying more, that’s her fault, her problem. It’s the same issue all of us have that can’t pay full freight for any number of colleges and our kids, and maybe our spouses and even ourselves really want to be able to send our kids wherever they want to go. It hurts. Hurts me, I can tell you. It’s even more difficult when the other parent happens to be your spouse, and you don’t want dissension in the marriage, family and you don’t happen to agree on what the college costs should be. One parent wants to borrow and spend to give the kid whatever opiton he wants, and the other sees that it just isn’t a good financial move to do so. At least when it’s a scheming nasty ex, you can tell him to go jump in the lake and refuse to discuss it further. When you are still sleeping with the person, and living a life , like if it’s your DH, it’s not so easy. So she has it easier than many who are married to the parent that wants to go bust in paying for college.</p>

20

<p>Tell her we all flipped at this.
If she does fill out a Profile, she does not share the password with the son. I’d hate to think “anything” could get back to the ex, who may be angling for who-knows-what.</p>

<p>The idea she could contribute 25k is a bit confusing. She’s earning less than Dad and the total is about 200k. Even if she is responsible for half, on a 60k COA minus 37 from the 529, isn’t the whole balance only roughly 23k? So, even paying 50%, hers would be about $12k-?</p>