Rochester and W&M OOS acceptance rates are around 30%. Bates at 18% overall but lower for RD. Midd was 16% this year and lower for RD. I believe the others all have RD acceptance rates at ten percent or lower. Your D needs to understand that she could easily be shut out of any or all of these. We saw kids with the same stats denied or waitlisted at all of these schools over and over on CC this year. It’s a bummer but it’s a reality check!
@homerdog That’s great info about Oberlin–thanks! We will consider that carefully. As for the acceptance rates, this is all true. The problem of course is that we don’t see the stats of the rejected students. Again, I strongly suspect that the massive increase in the number of applications over the past few years has been driven by more students applying to more “reach” schools. Nothing is guaranteed, of course, not with the uncertainty brought by the “holistic” process, but I’ve been led to believe that the IB diploma, while not a golden ticket, carries a lot of weight at many schools. Ten years ago, for instance, Rochester accepted roughly 100% of the IB applicants. I really think she has a decent chance at these schools, especially at Bates and Rochester, given what I believe will be the totality of her application, including her LORs and her lab experience this summer. [edited to fix typo]
Definitely visit Williams! There’s a nice street or two with shops and restaurants right in the middle of campus, and the town of North Adams is a 10 minute drive away—it’s very easy to get to, both by shuttle or by catching a ride with someone else. And most students find that there’s so much stuff happening on campus that they don’t need to leave. I think that Williams fulfills basically all of your kid’s criteria and not including it on the list would be a lost opportunity, especially when you are applying to such similar schools (Bowdoin, Amherst).
“She also reiterated that she has ZERO interest in Greek life, either in joining a sorority or being at a school where the social scene revolves around parties at fraternities. So maybe that eliminates Colgate and Richmond, and several others not mentioned above like Lehigh, Lafayette, and Bucknell.”
Yes, do drop these if she doesn’t want greek life.
Oberlin can be a very polarizing school. Definitely one that should be visited, IMO.
“That’s great info about Oberlin–thanks! We will consider that carefully. As for the acceptance rates, this is all true. The problem of course is that we don’t see the stats of the rejected students. Again, I strongly suspect that the massive increase in the number of applications over the past few years has been driven by more students applying to more “reach” schools. Nothing is guaranteed, of course, not with the uncertainty brought by the “holistic” process, but I’ve been led to believe that the IB diploma, while not a golden ticket, carries a lot of weight at many schools. Ten years ago, for instance, Rochester accepted roughly 100% of the IB applicants. I really think she has a decent chance at these schools, especially at Bates and Rochester, given what I believe will be the totality of her application, including her LORs and her lab experience this summer. [edited to fix typo]”
My guess is your daughter will have choices but I think you are being overly optimistic/rosy in your outlook and your daughter’s chances. It’s easy to focus on the very selective schools but I think the most important part of the college process is focusing on the bottom of one’s list. It’s the more challenging task for a high stat student. A good read would be @Lindagaf’s Average Excellent thread: http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1878059-truthful-advice-about-getting-into-top-colleges-for-your-average-excellent-student-p1.html
If it was my daughter, I’d add both geographic diversity ( 1 or 2 midwestern schools) and 2 women’s colleges to the list. Both will increase the odds while forgoing nothing in terms of a high quality education.
Agree with @homerdog that apps are a lot of work and time! But there are several lacs that last yr had no supplement, so they are ‘easier’ to throw on the list if you become nervous about having options at the end. As I recall from last year, Bates, Colby, Conn College and Hamilton had no supplements though after the app was submitted Hamilton came back with a short optional one.
A few other random thoughts.
As for Williams, the town is tiny, really like one or 2 streets, but really not much smaller than Midd’s.
If she likes Bates, she should do the interview. ED to Bates would make it a solid match or probable, but at RD it’s a different story. Lots of high stat kids get WL at RD, so the interview can help.
I would add Conn College, but your D would need to demonstrate interest in some way.
And it’s not as if Hamilton is an easy admit, but it will give your D better odds than most of the definite son her list. They used to publish admit rates by score, and those above a 1500 had a very good shot of admittance.
"If she likes Bates, she should do the interview. "
She should interview at any school that offers one and deems it evaluative. Check each college’s Common Data Set to see how interviews and “level of applicant’s interest” are measured in the application process. Here’s Bates as an example. Look at section C7: https://www.bates.edu/research/files/2019/05/cds1819.pdf
Yes, with LACs you need to show them love – try to visit, request an interview, she should open their emails and click through some links, reach out with any questions, sign up for admissions webinars. Demonstrated interest is important!
Agree you need a true safety and they can be the hardest to find. My definition is the student is at or above 75th percentile and the overall acceptance rate is 50% or higher.
Glad she’s making progress in narrowing the list!
Another consideration is your appetite for risk. Applying to Bates a school she loves ED will likely mean she’s done with the process before Christmas (barring a disastrous recco or interview). Going RD for all, you may end up somewhere not at the top of your list. I’m not familiar with the legacy preferences at Brown, but that’s another card to play. I would venture to say that her chances at Brown with legacy are better than her chances at Williams, Swat, Amherst, Bowdoin.
Midd could be another good ED strategy. Because they take more kids in the ED round than some of the other lacs, there is more of a bump there.
@RayManta I’m afraid you’re overly optimistic as well. Lots of 1500+ kids with high rigor getting rejected in RD at all of the schools on the current list. Your D could easily be shut out of all schools except W&M and Rochester. And she could get waitlisted at those. Both are great schools but I would caution you to become a little more realistic for fear your D will be disappointed if that happens. A white unhooked woman candidate to Amherst RD has the teeniest tiniest chance. Same with Midd and Bowdoin and Swat and Brown.
A large percentage of spots taken for URMs, first gen, QB, legacy, athletes. Then only the tippy top would get the nod and, while scores and grades help, they are not the ticket to those spots. I believe it’s fit at that point. What will your D bring to campus other than her academics? How will she contribute? Will she fit? What’s interesting about her experiences? How does she stand out versus the hundreds or thousands of other white woman with high stats? A unrecruitable athlete with a little research experience and some volunteer activity is not going to stand out without some leadership and some bigger awards.
I had a lot of people tell us that it made no sense that S got into Bowdoin and not Midd. Not getting into Midd was not about his SAT or grades (which seems to be on par with your D’s). For whatever reason, Midd wasn’t sure about him and put him on their waitlist. I saw so many high stat, and yes IB, kids on CC this year get waitlisted at all of their top 10 LACs. Waitlist after waitlist. I urge you to go to each of the decision threads. A lot of the decisions were head shakers.
As the parent, you need to bring your D the message that many high stat kids get shut out. If you’re telling her what you’re writing here, she’s not going to work very hard to find safer schools.
My town offers the IB diploma. Yes, many schools like it but it doesn’t equate to a hook. It doesn’t give a student that much of an edge especially among the most selective schools.
Congrats on making progress is shortening the list and finding core attributes to focus on! I agree that at any LAC, interviews are essential – off the top of my head, I can’t think of any where the Common Data Set says interviews are not considered. And, spending time on campus helps the student understand the culture both to identify whether it is a fit and to help shape the essays.
Next step – a safety – as those schools to apply to are all reaches right now (and for those on the "bubble, only Holyoke and BMC would be matches). Yes, if a student shows interest and applies ED, chances are better than the sub 20% acceptance rates at most of these schools, but remember that much of higher acceptance rates for ED at these LACs come from recruited athletes who have had an admissions pre-read and only apply ED knowing they have the “green light” and will likely be admitted. An ED deferral in December can make it very hard to get the energy to finish a slew of RD apps for January.
I’m biased, since we live in the midwest and our college searches all started with midwest LACs. But an EA to Wooster, Earlham an/or Lawrence, even without visits, as long a a kid emailed admissions rep to show interest, would go a long way to settling nerves in the fall and winter. Each of those would bring merit, probably 1/2 tuition, all have strong sciences, are walking distance to town, and have students that are intelligent, active and engaged. A student can apply ED and EA, the only caveat is that, if they are admitted ED before the EA decision comes out, then they withdraw the EA apps.
“I can’t think of any where the Common Data Set says interviews are not considered”
Williams, for one.
And Amherst. No interview. If schools offer them, do them. S19 had seven. But don’t read too much into them. His Midd interview went way over time. Two hours long with an older alum here in Chicago who is very successful and owns his own company. He kept in touch with S19 through the process and still does today. It’s safe to believe he wrote a very good rec for him but S still didn’t get in. I believe alumni interviews, for the most part show interest, but the recs don’t boost admissions all that much.
One other thing I just thought of. Many kids who get into these small LACs come from high schools the AOs have relationships with. While we don’t have a ton of kids apply to LACs, I knew our high school was on their radar because many of the AOs visited our school. Or we had one or two kids matriculate to these colleges either every year or every other year. We also knew the history that, for the NESCAC schools, all and I mean ALL, kids from our high school who were admitted were ED athletes in the last three years. Even though S19 wasn’t recruited, I think he did have the advantage of being able to walk on.
If your school has no history with these top LACs, that could be a disadvantage.
I’m not trying to be a downer. Just trying to convince you that your D needs matches she likes.
Don’t underestimate the effect that rejections/waitlists have on kids, even if they know going into it that admissions to the colleges are long-shots. It’s nice for students to have wins. Yes, kids can only go to one school in the end, but it’s important that they feel like they’re making a choice – not that the choice is made for them, even if it’s a school that they really like. A top student in our school had a list of all reaches and literally got into one school – a very good school, and perhaps one she would have chosen to attend over others, but the choice was made for her and the rejections were hard mentally. I agree that your D should get into Rochester and/or Bates (if she shows interest and interviews), but having a couple of more wins will be good for her ego.
OP wrote: “She doesn’t like to drink or party.” If true, then a small rural LAC in a cold environment should not be her top choice.
I have read OP’s original post in this thread a few times and do not see any theme or attribute that would make her “stand out” as a candidate for admission.
Excellent grades & SAT scores followed by nothing. This suggests that applying ED may be her best advantage as the family is prepared & able to be full pay.
P.S. Consider an ED application to Williams College as that is currently the best “bargain” in college admissions for a highly qualified applicant. Be prepared with a list of “ED II” schools.
^I have to reluctantly agree with Publisher; the list of criteria is approaching Goldilocks territory. (Edit: adding, smilie emoticon) 
Thanks, folks.
I think we just need to identify a safe-ish LAC or two on the east coast, near a small town, and with little Greek life to complete her list. If not Oberlin and Richmond, maybe Connecticut College or Skidmore will be the one. She really isn’t interested in going to a school in the Midwest or west coast. In part, she wants to be relatively close to someone she trusts in case she needs assistance, and she has extended family in Pennsylvania and Massachusetts that will give her a sense of security. We’re a transplanted northeast/mid atlantic family.
I’m not really concerned about the (assumed) lack of history with these schools from her HS. I suspect that every school in Florida (and, heck, let’s add the other states in the deep south) has a limited history with the northern LACs, so there is no disadvantage compared to students in the rest of the region. Most of the smart kids in the state end up at UF, and the ones who leave the state will gravitate toward Georgia Tech, Duke and Emory. Period. Maybe add Vandy. The limited competition by other FL students could help her at schools like Middlebury and Bates, maybe Swarthmore and the other super-competitive schools, too.
She is on each of these school’s e-mail and snail mail lists.
I feel like we are making progress due to the information and opinions you have all so thoughtfully given me. Yes, I am fully aware of the chances and probabilities at these schools and don’t need to be reminded. I’ve read all the threads from disappointed students. But, again, it’s a matter of finding the right balance. You only need two or three of the "probables/“safeties” to fill out the list, while throwing the net wider among the schools with a lower chance. I’m not saying anything none of you don’t know, just clarifying that I and we fully understand this. But again, she doesn’t have to–or want to–apply to 20 schools. It seems like she’s now down to a manageable core list of schools to apply to, with a few of her “bubble” schools sprinkled in (maybe Hamilton and Wellesley?). Just need to find that solid anchor. The fact that we don’t feel like we have an in-state option hurts here. Again, to repeat what we said earlier, we have around a 75% chance of leaving the state when she graduates due to job situations. If we happen to find out where that will be in the fall, then we can scramble and apply to a public option there, and if one parent has already moved, maybe they will consider her in-state, who knows. We’d have to explore that. She doesn’t want to apply to a Florida school as a safety and then worry about transferring.
You know, when I was a teenager, I visited a school in New England that I just adored. My sister had a friend that had started there and I think she wanted to stop by and see her when we were in the area. I didn’t apply there myself, but I wonder if it would make a good safety for my daughter. The school is Clark.
OP wrote: “She doesn’t want to apply to a Florida school as a safety and then worry about transferring.”
Interesting comment because that my thought about your daughter’s suitability for Bates College as “she doesn’t like to drink or party”.
With respect to transferring, keep Vanderbilt, Northwestern & Rice in mind.
As somewhat of a safety, Rhodes College in Memphis, Tennessee may be an interesting option for one interested in biology & medical research. Rhodes, I think, does offer generous merit scholarships.