<p>I'm applying to colleges this fall, and I want to apply as an international relations major. IR has long been my passion and my application shows that. After I get in, I also plan to double or minor in economics or communications.</p>
<p>The problem is, my parents will only let me apply as a BUSINESS major. They're convinced that this is the only way I can get a decent job, and that the majors I'm interested in are complete garbage. I have tried reasoning with them, but they say that if I don't major in business, I will have to pay for my whole education by myself.</p>
<p>I have no idea what to do and I'm quite upset about this. My application won't look good as a business major because I have no past experience in that area, and I'm not very passionate about it. Does anyone have 'proof' that IR, economics, or communications are equal or better than business, job-wise? And if not, what should I do???</p>
<p>Not sure I can provide “proof”. But my D1’s boyfriend graduated from a 2nd tier LAC last year with a degree in Econ (double major with public policy). He is working for Deloitte in their consulting business. Jobs these days have at least as much to do with whether you were able to wrangle some good internship experience as your major. Econ and business are not treated very differently in the marketplace (although I personally do think business courses are a bit more interesting than Econ courses – wondering how much Econ you have actually taken… so you might want to keep an open mind about that).</p>
<p>@intparent, that sounds like an interesting major, and I think I would enjoy the international side of it. However, I’m not sure that all schools that I’m applying to offer this.</p>
<p>And another note: it would be much, much harder for me to get into colleges if I’m applying to business. It’s definitely more competitive, and I have no real evidence to show that I’m interested in it so my chances would decrease by a lot. My parents are okay with this though, and want me to apply to lower-tier business schools and give up my dream colleges :(</p>
<p>Why don’t you look for more programs like this and change your school list if you can get your parents to support it? They might go for this – it could satisfy both sides. Are they open to a double IR/business major? Honestly… I do not think your combo of majors is more employable than a straight business degree, so I doubt you are going to get any studies or info out here saying it is. You didn’t really respond to my comment on Econ coursework – an IR and business double major could be pretty powerful in the marketplace given globalization. And I personally found classes in marketing, operations, etc. more interesting than a lot of high level Econ courses (just me, but unless you have truly spent some time on Econ – I wouldn’t be willing to die on that hill).</p>
<p>To answer your question about econ, I don’t have extensive experience. Just an AP economics course and dealing with the EU debt crisis in MUN a few times, both of which were enjoyable.
I would actually be fine with an IR/business double major. However, what would be the process of getting into that? Could I apply as an IR major, and then later add business as a double major? Would it be difficult to do that, since business is pretty competitive? Sorry if I’m getting too detailed, I just want to make sure that this is possible.</p>
<p>For most (maybe all) schools I’m applying to, yes. For example, UPenn. If I applied to Wharton instead of arts & sciences, my chances would be significantly lower. I heard that business school is almost as competitive as engineering or pre-med.</p>
<p>If you’re applying to Penn, your parents should know that companies recruit EVERYONE, not just Wharton students. If you truly don’t want to do business (by the way, good for you… I really just don’t like undergraduate business education on principle), go to the career websites of the schools you are applying to, get career plans and salary surveys, and show them to your parents. At Penn, College students get the same jobs as Wharton students; you will see that salary is lower on average, but that is distorted because College salary statistics include people who don’t have any interest in business (some do legal type stuff before applying to law school, others become teachers, others are doing research before heading to grad school, and all of them sacrifice salary for passion). Among those who go into the different business disciplines after graduation, salary is pretty consistent across schools and majors.</p>
<p>Also, for what it’s worth, nobody expects you to have legitimate business experience before applying to a business program.</p>
<p>Do they realize that lower tier business schools may have fewer connections to sought-after companies for internships? They may also receive less focus from recruiters depending on the school and location. I personally know many business majors who were unable to secure internships and eventually full-time employment, and I think part of it was due to their colleges not having many connections with local businesses. But another part of it was because the individuals themselves, like you, did not have their hearts in it, their personalities weren’t well-suited for leadership, and they mostly majored in business just to get a job and make good money (which never happened). </p>
<p>I don’t personally know any IR majors to compare. I just know that business has become such a popular major that it is going to become saturated and there will be more business majors than there are jobs for them.</p>
<p>Thanks, chrisw and NovaLynnx. I plan to do more research to show them that business isn’t the only way to go.
They’re adamant in having me apply as a business major… I don’t know why. I’ve shown them statistics and my counselor has tried talking to them, but they seem to think that liberal arts majors=unemployment.</p>
<p>and NovaLynnx, I tried explaining that going to a lower tier business school won’t get me as many opportunities than if I studied IR at Georgetown, or something similar. They respond that I “only” have to get into USC or U of Michigan’s business program. I also tried telling them that since there are so many people studying business, jobs will be scarce. To which they respond with, “Why do you think so many people are studying business? Because its such a good major.”</p>
<p>So the best I can do is settle for an IR/business double major. My parents are even against that, because they said it’ll be almost impossible to get into business school once I’m admitted.</p>
<p>You could research some successful business men and women and show your parents that many of them do not have business academic backgrounds. Look at Steve Jobs for example, who dropped out of college. Although he grew up in a different time, you could probably find younger, more relevant examples. </p>
<p>I am a salaried HR manager and I majored in psychology. Many of the store managers I know didn’t even graduate/attend college, and some are making over $100k/year. It is about starting off on the right path and working your way up, no matter what you choose to study in school. </p>
<p>Honestly, I have found that business majors who recently graduated college have no idea how to write a resume, interview poorly, and have ridiculously high expectations for salaries, prestige, and power. They have studied numbers and trends, but miss the abstract thinking and reasoning that a liberal arts, or social science education can give to an applicant to round out their skills. The more an individual specializes, the less marketable they become because they become qualified for a smaller subset of jobs. And I find (again, only in my personal experience in life and as an HR manager) that business majors are not as well-rounded as is desirable.</p>
<p>Then again, I don’t know if IR students have the same problems or not because I’ve never needed to recruit or work with them.</p>
<p>Note, however, that the popularity of the business major increases as one goes down the selectivity level of colleges and universities, while the popularity of liberal arts majors (humanities, social studies, and science) tends to be higher at the more selective colleges. So a straight comparison of business majors versus liberal arts majors without controlling for the selectivity of the colleges and universities attended may end up comparing students of very different levels of ability and motivation.</p>
<p>This does not necessarily mean that majoring in business is the optimal thing for the OP, especially since the OP prefers to major in something else. Perhaps one way to escape the parental restrictions on major is to look for full ride merit scholarships (see the sticky threads at the top of the financial aid and scholarships forum for lists of such).</p>
<p>Okay. I just had a looooong discussion with my parents, which involved actually looking for jobs online that required IR or business majors. I ended up finding little to no entry-level IR positions but a bunch of financial jobs with a business-related BA required. So it made their argument look good.</p>
<p>But I did get them to bend a little bit. They’re willing to have me apply to 3 colleges as an IR major, 3 for economics, and 4 for business (USC, UMich, Boston College, and one other). This is probably the best I can do, but I’m wondering if my profile will hurt my chances for schools that I’m applying econ/business in. I’m writing my Commonapp essay on Model UN and how it changed my view on the world, so would that look suspicious or something? Just a side question.</p>
<p>ucbalumnus - I made my comment because OP stated they did not expect to get into the top business programs in the way they expected to get into other top programs. I’ve interviewed business students from some excellent business programs who still fit the description I described above (though not from Wharton or HBS, but top 15-20 programs). Maybe they were on the low end of their graduating class, but these are some basic skills that I would expect from any college graduate and yet few really have them. Particularly those who did not work before, or who worked minimal hours through work-study and were used to large amounts of flexibility.</p>
<p>vivendium - Are you familiar with the types of entry level positions a bachelor’s degree in IR will get you? They may not be obvious or have “IR” in the title or job description, so I just want to make sure you were doing a fair search. Many careers require starting at the very bottom and working your way up to the job you want. Also, consider that the few jobs you found will still have less competition than the many business jobs you found. The business jobs may be listed as entry level, but experienced applicants will likely be considered as well. A company would still rather have someone with 2-3 years experience over someone with no experience.</p>
<p>I do surely hope that one of the schools you applied to for social science is Penn! We have a top notch IR program and economics program, and basically everyone I know who did those programs loved them.</p>
<p>As for your common app essay, why would that look suspicious? I wrote mine about being a lifeguard at a municipal pool and how it was harder than it looked haha</p>
<p>NovaLynnx, my parents and I used sites like careerbuilder and practically no jobs specified an IR major. That being said, I still believe that jobs are available for that major, just not as many as accounting or marketing analyst jobs.</p>
<p>and chrisw, I’m 90% sure I’m applying to Penn as an IR major and that’s good to know about the essay; I was worried I’d have to write an alternate one for my econ/business applications haha</p>
<p><a href=“http://careercenter.depaul.edu/_documents/international.pdf[/url]”>http://careercenter.depaul.edu/_documents/international.pdf</a> Did you look at something like this? It’s a career guide for international studies - I’m not familiar with the major but I assume IS/IR is similar, and this is just an example when I google’d “Entry level IR jobs.” International business is listed, and management among many others. Sometimes it takes creativity to put together your career plan and few people follow a “straight” path.</p>
<p>Note that it does suggest a concentration or minor in business. It doesn’t hurt to have the basics even if you don’t expect to go that route.</p>
<p>I honestly don’t think you should let your parents influence your college major that much since you both might end up regretting it at the end. You guys should sit down and discuss both of your opinions and if you can’t come to a conclusion maybe get an external opinion like a guidance counselor or something. Or you can consult relatives or friends that majored in IR and business and try to get their opinions. At the end it should be what is best for you and what you are happy at doing.</p>
<p>They honestly want it their way, and I can’t change that. The college counselor they hired agreed with ME, so they started thinking about firing him. I don’t really know anyone who has graduated from college with an IR major, just a friend who is going into USC with one this year. I’m fine with what NovaLynnx mentioned, a minor or double major in a business-related field. It’s either that, or my parents will freak out and I might have to pay for my whole education w/ no financial aid.</p>
<p>I am not sure how the changes to the Common App this year will affect this. But as of last year it WAS possible to have a different common app essay for different colleges. My D actually used the same essay for all colleges, but she did juggle the order of her ECs for a few of them (so created new versions for that). Also, she had new EC info as the fall went on that she wanted to include. At least as of last year’s version, she had to create a new version of the Common App to revise that info once she had submitted to one college! It wasn’t super obvious how to do it, you had to search the help somehow. Now… the new version may handle all this differently, might not even allow it. But for what it is worth.</p>
<p>I will say that this compromise still seems a little strange. Why not apply as a business/econ major with a strong interest in international business (you can at least play that angle, even for the business or econ applications)? I don’t think colleges would think that is unusual or a problem. And then your model UN essay might make more sense in the context of the application.</p>
<p>Girlengineer, the OP always has the option of trying to do this without parental financial support. It IS their money. That would likely mean an in-state college (or two years of CC, then an in-state college). But that is an option if he/she feels strongly enough about it. I do see the parents’ point – IR without a strong minor or double major is not the most employable major… honestly, if it were my kid, I would say go ahead with IR, BUT you have to pick up something else to go with it that is more useful (business/econ/statistics/public policy/etc.). I would let my kid review those options and any others they think would be a strong combo with IR – but I would expect them to have some kind of plan and some kind of addition to the IR degree to make themselves more employable. Call me too practical, but the parents could be dropping as much as a quarter of a million dollars on an education these days – you can hardly blame them for wanting their kid to be employable at the end of that.</p>
and that’s good to know about the essay; I was worried I’d have to write an alternate one for my econ/business applications haha</p>