Help please! College of Engineering & SAT scores (UCB, Cornell, Stanford, etc)

Applying to College
1

I’ve read that freshman applicants to the CoE at top tier universities have much higher statistics than students applying to other colleges/schools. I’m a little confused as to how applying to CoE affects college admissions at schools like UCB, Cornell, and Stanford. I know that it is much more difficult to get into the CoE at Berkeley compared to other majors. My June SAT scores were: 780 CR 730 M (740 M superscored) 770 W–2280 single sitting 2290 superscored. My questions is whether or not my SAT math section score will be a deal breaker. 730 It seems a little low to me, and I am a little concerned since CoE applicants generally have very high math scores. I am aiming for at least 780+ on my Math II and Bio E subject tests that I will be taking, so would that offset my SAT I math score?

Also, I am still deciding between premed and engineering, as I do not know if I want to go to med school or become an engineer. Should I instead apply to the College of Letters & Science as a biology major (for med school)? I have demonstrated interest in biomedical research (2 week biotech lab volunteering/shadow, authorship on a published scientific review paper, 1st place in statewide bio competition).

I would like to apply to these schools as a Bioengineering major, and decide from then if I should go to med school or become an engineer, but I’m afraid that my Math SAT I score will prevent me from getting into the College of Engineering (thus forcing me to apply as a Biology major at the College of Letters & Science). I cannot take the SAT again, since I am using the October and possibly November test dates for my subject tests. Perhaps it would be better for me to apply to CoE/Letters&Science as undeclared?

I’m fairly new to this whole college admissions thing, so I do not have a very good understanding as to how applications/admissions work, so please tell me if I am misunderstanding anything!

2

You are smart to be considering your options and chances at some very selective schools.

Cornell’s overall admission stats show SAT Math 25/75 ~680/780, whereas Engineering specific admit range is ~740/800. It doesn’t mean that you won’t get accepted, but your chances are lower with a 730. Of course bio is also a very popular major for pre-meds, so admissions is also very selective. You do not have to be a bio major to be pre-med. You can be any major as long as you take all the pre-med requirements. At Cornell you can choose the Ag school for bio and other science majors (doesn’t have to be Arts&Sciences) - but your gen-ed requirements will be somewhat different, so you should see which you prefer.

There are many schools that offer eng/bioeng where your stats will be very competitive. Just be sure to have some match and safety schools on your list.

3

For Berkeley specifically, it is easier to be admitted to L&S (note: all L&S frosh enter undeclared) than most or all CoE majors. However, changing into a CoE major from a non-CoE division is very difficult. In contrast, getting admitted to a CoE major is likely more difficult, but changing into L&S later is much less difficult.

Also, from a curriculum standpoint, it is not required to major in biology to do pre-med. Some engineering students do add the additional pre-med courses, though the schedule can be very crowded. Bioengineering is popular among frosh applicants (and therefore one of the most selective for frosh applicants) probably for this reason, since it includes most of the pre-med courses already.

4

@WhataProcess I have a similar question, if I applied to an arts and sciences school at a top university and between majoring in bio or econ I chose Econ, I know the degree requirements change obviously but how would my general ed classes differ?

5

Your math score is fine. The difference between a 730/740 and an 800 is 2-3 additional right answers. Colleges know that. 2290 is also good. Whether you get accepted or not to your top choice colleges is very unlikely to be because your SAT score “should have been higher”.

In some cases, and perhaps in yours, it can be difficult to transfer from the University’s College of Arts and Science to the University’s College of Engineering. My sense is that you’re overthinking the application process. Apply to the department that makes the most sense to you based on academics and not on chances.

6

Re: #3

It depends on the school, but usually general education requirements are the same for all majors within the division. Of course, a biology major would take biology for biology majors, rather than biology for non-majors that a non-biology major may be allowed to choose at some schools that have a biological science general education requirement.

7

Thank you all for your responses!! So basically for me, applying to CoE gives me more flexibility, since it’s easier to transfer to out of CoE than into it, and bioe courses cover a lot of the premed courses. The drawback is that CoE is harder to get into. However, L&S is easier to get into but it would be very difficult for me to transfer into the CoE second year, so engineering is pretty much out of the question if I apply to L&S. Ugh… I’m just not sure which one to apply to. Given what I’ve described so far, which school do you guys think that I should apply to if I value engineering slightly over premed (but I’m scared of not being accepted into Berkeley/Cornell/Stanford just because I applied to the CoE instead of L&S… I really want to go to those schools!)?

8

When I went to the cals information visit this Monday, they said It was easy to transfer to another college.

9

It is not easy to transfer because there is typically very limited availability in high demand programs, like engineering or CS which require large resources compared to liberal arts. Engineering core courses also need to be taken and can be difficult to catch up on when transferring, and might require an additional year of school.

To answer the OP’s question, I would apply directly to engineering. GPA and rigor are usually more heavily weighted, and a high SAT II math score will offset the SAT math of 730. A bachelor’s in biology will have limited job prospects compared to engineering should the OP change his/her mind about med school (and still has to go through med school admission and residency hurdles)

10

Thanks for the explanation. I agree go and apply directly to the college of engineering! I’m not sure what engineering you want to major in, but CALS have two inside their college. Biological Engineering and Environmental Engineering

11

Do med schools look at your overall GPA or just the GPA of pre-req courses such as biology, chemistry and physics?

Because if they look at the overall GPA, your GPA will be much lower than people majoring in science which will hurt you when you apply for med school. Engineering has a much lower average GPA than science. I’d go for College of Engineering if I were you for the added flexibility, but I don’t think majoring in bioengineering would help you for med school as you would have a lower GPA and med schools heavily weigh GPA when it comes to admissions.

Stanford I heard you can basically transfer into anything so if you go in as a science major, you can directly transfer to engineering, and Stanford doesn’t admit by major so that is a good option for you.

12

Both overall and BCPM GPAs are important for pre-med purposes.

Really? http://www.gradeinflation.com/tcr2010grading.pdf (page 4) says that science GPAs tend to be lower than engineering GPAs on average, though individual schools can certainly vary.

Of course, a given student’s GPA will likely be highest in the subject that s/he is strongest and most interested in. The fact that humanities tends to have higher GPAs than engineering, social studies, or science does not mean that a pre-med should expect that loading up on humanities courses will help his/her GPA if s/he is not that strong or interested in humanities.

13

@ucbalumnus From what I’ve heard, a 3.5 GPA in engineering is very impressive while 3.9’s majoring in biology are a dime a dozen.
At UCB, are engineering GPA’s lower than science majors?

14

If it were true that biology major courses were easy to get a 3.9 GPA in, then pre-meds would not be so stressed out about getting a medical-school-worthy GPA.

Unknown. Data may have been available on UC StatFinder, but that is long gone.

15

Thanks everyone for the advice!!!
Another thing that I’m concerned about is the CoE supplemental essay. I’m not sure how to display my interest in engineering specifically. The big problem I have is that I don’t have any ENGINEERING experience. This being the case, I have absolutely no idea how I am going to convey my interest in engineering without any engineering experience for the supplemental essay. (I’m interested in engineering because I like solving problems (broad, I know)). As I’ve mentioned above, I want to major in bioengineering or biology and have demonstrated interest in biology/research. I’ve only looked at the Cornell CoE essay, and I couldn’t find one for UCB and Stanford (is it correct to assume that they do not have one for frosh applicants?).

For more info, I’ll just provide my stats below (perhaps there’s something in here that I could use in my CoE essay?).

Given the feedback that I’ve gotten, I have decided to apply to the College of Engineering.
My schools list as it stands includes UCB, UCLA, Stanford, Cornell, University of Washington (in state applicant, safety), RPI, and NYU. Of this list I’ve only found a CoE supplemental for Cornell (hopefully this is the case so I don’t have to worry about it so much!).

Male, Asian (Chinese)
GPA: 4.0/4.0 UW, 4.33 UC GPA (only male in my class w/ 4.0 GPA) Top 1% of class
SAT: 2280[2290 superscore] 780CR,730M[740M superscored], 770 W
SAT II expected scores: 780+ Math II, 780+ Bio E
9 AP’s: World Hist 4, AB Calc 5, English L&C 5, US Hist 5, Psych 5
(Sr year AP’s= BC Calc, English Lit, Physics, Stats)
All core subject classes are either honors or AP exclusively

EC (listed in order of importance to me):
**Authorship on a published scientific review (collaborated with researchers at Fred Hutch Cancer Research Center). Based on recent research done on cancer growth inhibitors.
Community College Biotech lab volunteering (2 weeks [17 hrs] so far, might do more)
Debate club officer (“Captain”)
Science club
Orchestra all 4 years in HS (7 total)
50+ hours volunteering sorting food at local food clinic
NHS
Random unofficial peer tutoring (does this count? a lot of friends come to me for math help, and I spend usually 1-2 hours every time tutoring them)

Awards:
1st in statewide science competition
1st in division orchestra festival/2nd overall
Commended national merit scholar
Student of the month
AP Scholar w/ distinction

**I’m not sure if this is as glamorous as it sounds. Basically I spent a few weeks researching very high level science, and was asked to design an image depicting the processes involved in cancer growth inhibitors which was included in the review paper (so I was listed as an author). It was several months in length, and a lot of time was invested learning about the dense topic of tyrosine kinase inhibitors.

I’m sorry for asking so many questions! I’m just super stressed right now thinking about all of this stuff!

16

Be careful – Washington may not be as safe as you think because so many majors are impacted (including all engineering majors, CS, and biology). If you are not directly admitted as a frosh, or otherwise want to change into one of these majors, it can require a highly competitive admission process based on your college courses and grades.

http://www.washington.edu/uaa/advising/academic-planning/majors-and-minors/list-of-undergraduate-majors/
http://data.engr.washington.edu/pls/portal30/STUDENT_APPL.RPT_APPLICANT_STATISTICS_YEAR.SHOW_PARMS

Also, will your parents pay the cost of out-of-state publics and other schools like NYU that will not give you good need-based financial aid? If you are serious about medical school, you may want to consider looking for scholarships so that you can do undergraduate inexpensively and save money for expensive medical school.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1678964-links-to-popular-threads-on-scholarships-and-lower-cost-colleges.html

17

^ Based on his record, if by some oversight he is not a direct admit to the major of his choice at UW (and to the Honors Program), he should have no difficulty gaining admission upon completion of the prerequisites.