Help with Duke v Rice for Business

Colleges and Universities A-Z Duke University
1

<p>I am still undecided on college!</p>

<p>I am getting a pretty substantial scholarship from Rice to the tune of 80,000 dollars.
However, I am planning to go to business school after working following my college graduation.</p>

<p>Looking at job placement between Duke and Rice, Rice has a pretty meager placement through the top banking companies compared to Duke.</p>

<p>Are the opportunities that would be available to me through graduating from Duke worth the 80,000 dollars additional I would have to pay?</p>

2

<p>Depends really on where you want to work.</p>

<p>I'd say Duke, here's why:</p>

<p>1) 80,000 is a lot of money, but you can make that back in a year on wall street (meaning, by year 2, you could be earning 150-200k).
2) You'll likely be placed in NYC (assuming you do well enough), and NYC jobs tend to have the most upside + prestige.</p>

<p>However, you could easily pick Rice with your scholarship. Be aware, however, that you'll likely end up in Houston, where most BB are in their oil/energy sector.</p>

3

<p>Hi college stat, I was wondering how you are still undecided. Did you recently get off the waitlist at Duke? I'm on their waitlist and am wondering if they are still calling people</p>

4

<p>Nobody can make that decision for you - it depends on your personal interests and financial situation. Remember that your interests may change. You could wind up disliking business/econ/investment banking after taking a few related courses or an internship in that area. I wouldn't pick either university specifically for future opportunities in a specific career area unless you are almost certain to have an interest in that area (meaning you have a lot of direct experience and really know what you would be getting into).</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
I'd say Duke, here's why:</p>

<p>1) 80,000 is a lot of money, but you can make that back in a year on wall street (meaning, by year 2, you could be earning 150-200k).
2) You'll likely be placed in NYC (assuming you do well enough), and NYC jobs tend to have the most upside + prestige.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is a naive take on the situation that makes many assumptions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Assumes that the OP will major in business and will not discover something else that is more interesting. Most people go in undecided or change from what they were certain they were going to major in.</p></li>
<li><p>Assumes that if the OP does major in business he or she will want to go into banking/finance, instead of auto manufacturing, technology, agribusiness, hospitality, or any of the other thousands and thousands of endeavors that don't involve moving other people's money around.</p></li>
<li><p>Assumes that if the OP does major in business and does want to go into finance/banking, he or she will want to work on Wall Street and not Charlotte or Denver or Chicago or his or her hometown.</p></li>
<li><p>Assumes business major, wants banking, wants Wall Street and that a $200,000/year salary is guaranteed. Only a small percentage of the population makes that kind of money. Yes, an education at Duke or Rice (or a number of other schools) increases the chances, but there is no guarantee. The poster of these comments is young, soon to graduate from high school and looking forward to attending Duke, and this sort of naivete about the realities of adult life is not atypical. However, the OP is at the same point in life and might actually make this decision based on such faulty logic.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>The $80K scholarship money at Rice is a sure thing right now. It would seriously decrease your out-of-pocket or your loans. You don't say where you are located and whether one is geographically better (which could be closer or further, depending on your preference). You don't mention the financial situation, other than the scholarship, so it is not known whether Duke would be a financial burden or whether it is chump change. </p>

<p>In this situation, my inclination would be to say that these are two excellent schools, one is a significantly lower COA, so Rice appears to be the obvious choice. But, there are so many other factors that we don't know and that you have to identify for yourself and decide what is most important to you. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

6

<p>Naive? I'm not so sure.</p>

<p>The OP explicitly stated that he was "planning to go to business school after working following my college graduation." Furthermore, he also mentioned the quality of recruiting at "top banking companies." I never said that Rice was a horrible school- it's actually an incredible one. However, for his purposes, I feel that Duke's strong placement would be much more beneficial.</p>

<p>Oh, and the whole salary issue. While I'm not saying it's guaranteed that he will make that much money, odds are that he will if he snatches an analyst spot in a BB Investment Bank. </p>

<p>Here is an average BONUS spread sheet that details how much 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year analysts are getting on top of their base salary.</p>

<p>Dealbreaker</a> - A Wall Street Tabloid - Business News Headlines and Financial Gossip - 2008 Bonus Payouts?</p>

7

<p>Sorry, CNI, that source wouldn't even be acceptable from one of my fifth graders. Don't try to get away with such a non-source at Duke. This is some random spreadsheet on some blog and the blog even notes its unknown and questionable origin and many of the bonuses are even sourced as "rumor."</p>

<p>Every high school basketball player is confident he is the next Michael Jordan with a $100M contract on draft day, every high school drama star knows he will be starring in a blockbuster action flick with a $10M salary and five times that in royalties within two years of landing in Hollywood, and every kid headed off to college to study "bidness" figures on six figures within two years and first million by the five year reunion. Only about 5% of the population makes in excess of $100K - $200K is a lot less than that. I'll let you future millionaire bankers do the math.</p>

<p>The odds are that the OP will change his mind and his major within a year, probably even by Christmas. So, if he does major in business, and if he is one of the best and brightest coming out that year, and if the economy isn't still or again in the tank, and if the housing/mortgage crisis hasn't forced massive layoffs in the financial industry, and if he wants to work on Wall Street, and if he gets one of these almost guaranteed six-figure analyst jobs, and if he turns out to be one of the few who is not weeded out during the first year, if, if, if, if. How many ifs do there have to be for the "odds" to favorable that he will be making $150-200K by his second year?</p>

<p>You can't plan your life but you can plan for your life. A plan for his life would include a really long, hard look at a guaranteed $80,000 right now. We don't know all the other factors he has to consider, but that $80,000 is one heckuva tiebreaker.</p>

8

<p>K9Leader,
You're completely right in the fact that a majority of the population will never make a 6 figure salary, but on the other hand, a majority of adults did not go to a T10 school. I don't see how you can say that the "odds" are that the OP will change his mind- do you personally know him? I, for one, am extremely passionate about economics, and while the field is at an extremely volatile point, 3-4 years is plenty of time for the market to right itself. The source, I admit, is not the most official- however, it really isn't any type of surprise, to me at least, that people on the street make a lot (One of my parents is in business (not an Ibanker), but has many friends who basically reaffirmed the fact that you'll be in the six figure range very quickly after you graduate, assuming that you don't screw up.)</p>

<p>Nevertheless,
It's pointless for us to argue any further, because we each obviously have stated our opinions--It's the OP's decision to make, not ours. $80,000 is a LOT of money, and Rice is certainly a great school, so you really can't go wrong with that option. I just feel that Duke will provide the better opportunities.</p>

9

<p>Most people change their desired field and/or their major from whatever they thought they wanted to do at 18 by the time they actually start doing something. Without knowing him, I can say that the odds (i.e., greater than 50%) are that he will go off in a new direction because most people do.</p>

<p>Not many people are doing today what they thought they would be doing when they were 18, and they're not making as much as they envisioned/assumed they would at 18 before they really understood the realities of "real life." </p>

<p>Realizing all of this is part of the decision-making process and to automatically assume a six-figure salary is poor decision making, which I an sure is taught in business classes at both Duke and Rice.</p>

10

<p>Yeah folks and let's not forget the simple (but sadly misunderstood) fact that a Duke diploma does NOT equal a job on Wall Street. I work at the Career Center and have to see econ major after econ major not even get interviews for NY firms, much less BBs. Now engineering majors on the other hand, wow...no j/p. </p>

<p>Each year a bank may take an analyst class of 150-200 from an applicant pool in the tens of thousands, most from "T10" schools. There simply aren't enough positions around for you to be able to bank on one (sick pun there for ya) regardless of economic conditions. </p>

<p>k9 you are absolutely correct about everything.</p>

11

<p>Funny how some things are so timely. My daughter was telling me tonight about her journalism teacher, who I already knew had gone to Duke. She went to Duke for engineering, got 2-1/2 years into it and decided she hated engineering so she switched to business and actually managed to graduate on time with the business degree (BBA at Duke?). She got into some sort of management job with some retail operation as a buyer or something. After a few years was disillusioned with the "bidness" world, went and got a master's in literature and ended up teaching high school English and French (and now, journalism). Just one example of people's majors/careers veering off in ways they could not have imagined when they were 18.</p>

<p>I went off to William & Mary at 18 to major in English to either get into magazine publishing or go to law school. Figured out pretty quick that the lawyer thing would be worse than poking 12-inch long needles into my eyes. Still majored in English, did one small job in publishing and then spent 17 years in higher education regulatory affairs, and have spent the last 8 years teaching - 4 years of high school writing and computer literacy, 2 years earning my M.Ed. in Elementary Ed., and 2 years now teaching elementary school. At 18 I just knew there was no way I would ever go into teaching.</p>

<p>The changes, they are a-coming . . .</p>

12

<p>Another point worth mentioning. For some reason people compare average student at Duke v Rice (or whatever school), but what one should compare is how the student who lands the big IB job out of Duke would do at Rice. He would also probably land a big IB job out of Rice as well. You cannot fairly compare the top Duke job that a person would (could) get with the average Rice job any more than you could compare the top Rice job with the Duke average.</p>

13

<p>Perhaps this is a silly question, or I just completely missed it on the website, but I notice that Duke doesnt explicitly have a business undergrad program...is this correct? If so, what are the options for someone interested in business?</p>

14

<p>for students interested in business or banking, academically their options are an Economics major and an MMS minor. The Duke Economics major features several finance electives should someone be interested in financial markets. The Markets and Management Studies (MMS) is a minor which has several business-related classes taught in a Sociology context. However, a student should feel free to major in whatever they want and may consider minoring or double-majoring in one of these subjects.</p>

<p>There are also research assistant positions available in Fuqua although these seem time consuming. There are also several business-related student organizations on campus.</p>

<p>Generally speaking, since there is no finance program at Duke, employers aren't expecting much in terms of technical skills from students as much as they are in terms of liberal arts education</p>