Help with persuading parents to let me attend Smith

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
1

<p>Hi!</p>

<p>I really want to attend Smith but 2 things stand in my way, fin resources and parent's disapproval. I figure if I bug the SFS enough and compare my award with Mt Holyoke's, the fin problem might be solved. So now my biggest headache is convincing my parents to let me attend Smith.</p>

<p>My parents are very traditional Asians, who only only about ranking and how much recognition my degree can give me back home in Singapore (not much to say the truth, Singaporeans are ignorant about LACs in general). They are currently refusing to budge on their viewpoint that I'll have no future if I attend an LAC, and I've tried a lot of methods to convince them but its all not working.</p>

<p>I was thinking I can compile a list of benefits that Smith can bring to me and force them to read thru it. I will need inputs and elaboration on this as I'm sure my knowledge is neither complete nor perfect. Btw, I'm intending to double major in economics and government, with the focus on international relations. I will take elementary French and proceed from there, and probably take many philosophy classes (I'm interested in ethics).</p>

<p>Ok, my current points are:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Smith gives me the best of both worlds, the attention and community feeling of a small LAC and a combined 5-colleges resource that can rival many large schools.</p></li>
<li><p>Smith's CDO (and alumnae network) is very strong. I can find a summer internship at a reputable firm with the help of PRAXIS, and have the additional opportunity to complete a one year internship after graduation as part of my Optional Training Period (for F-1 visa holders). This will be of great value to my resume.</p></li>
<li><p>The housing system builds a sense of community that cannot easily be found at other colleges. The ability to interact with juniors and seniors since day 1 will ensure that I network across levels and find out more about the better courses on campus.</p></li>
<li><p>Smith is very reputable in the US (please let this be so! I'm not very sure).</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Can anyone suggest any more/elaborate on my points? Perhaps current Smithies/alumnae/parents can tell me more about the frequency and quality (well fame mostly, since it'll speak more to my parents) of people who hold guest talks and lectures on campus? Basically anything that will convince my parents that an education at Smith will prepare me for life, and get me a job.</p>

<p>Thanks so much! I'll be forever grateful if they change their mind and let me attend smith :></p>

2

<p>Smith is very reputable in the US. D got a job in a think tank with a Smith resume, hundreds of applicants for the job, etc.</p>

<p>No way to put this politely: the Asian fixation on rankings is totally misplaced when it comes to US undergraduate and, as you observed, is biased towards large research universities whose reputation is based on their graduate work rather than quality of undergraduate teaching. Certainly this is true of most of the Ivy League…Yale and Brown are the only two I’d even consider versus Smith in terms of undergraduate. Smith has the advantage that first priority of the professors won’t go to graduate students and that you have research opportunities beginning with your first semester.</p>

<p>Both the Econ and Gov departments are strong at Smith. D majored in Gov and Math but took several Econ courses and has been admitted to several very good PhD Econ programs including a Top 3 that I can assure you your parents have heard of…details available in about 10 days.</p>

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<p>@The Dad,</p>

<p>Thanks! You have been of great help :)</p>

<p>I totally know about the fixation on rankings right! I’m so angry at my parents for trying to push me into a big and famous school. They just don’t understand that the focus is not on undergrads at those schools. My mom even said that I’ll get the same attention at both types of schools - totally wrong. My father finds Smith overly small, and to think that my ideal size is 2000 students, not 2600 as with Smith. I applied to Yale but boohoo they didn’t want me… and to think I spent a large part of last year fixated on Yale and worked so hard on my essay. Dec 15 was a terrible day.</p>

<p>May I ask, what type of research did your D take part at Smith? I’ve been a very sciency and maths person until now so I’m not very familiar with research in the humanities and social sciences. I’m looking forward to knowing what grad school she will be attending!</p>

4

<p>yxyxyx, take a look at what both Mini and I wrote in the recent post, “Smith and Mount Holyoke: totally confused!”, about large universities vs. LACs. Maybe hearing about my husband’s personal experience at Harvard would be helpful.</p>

<p>As far as reputation, take a look at CC posts in the last couple of years about Smith’s consistent and phenomenal success in Fulbright scholarships among LACs for the last several years. That’s a very competitive field of endeavor; Smith is right up at or near the top for LACs, and no other undergraduate school–either prestigious university or competitive LAC–can touch the consistent, nearly 50% application success(!), so as a result, Smith has more total Fulbrights than any other LAC. See Mini’s thread “Fulbrights again!” from 5/28/10. That may be a ranking your parents understand. </p>

<p>I hope this helps.</p>

5

<p>Well, if your parents are Asian they probably want you to become a physician :)</p>

<p>I am a Prof at Johns Hopkins which has been ranked the #1 hospital for ~20 yrs in a row and also ranks #1 for research $$ and top 2 or 3 for medical school reputation. You can tell them that in 1917, Florence Sabin became the first woman promoted to full professor at Hopkins -she was a graduate of Smith in 1893. She was also the first woman elected to the National Academy of Science. Of the women who followed her, 5 of 6 graduated from women’s colleges (3 from Smith, 1 Radcliffe and 1 Vassar). #6 is a Smithie and is still active on the faculty. When I mention that my daughter goes to Smith, there is instant recognition and congratulations soon follow. Good luck!</p>

6

<p>Thanks, upbeat, for sharing these tidbits of women’s and Smith’s history. I love facts like these!</p>

7

<p>@CarolynB</p>

<p>I will def check out Fulbright scholarships and the threads that you’ve mentioned above. In fact I’m in a dilemma between Smith and Mt Holyoke also because I really want Smith, but Mt Holyoke is just financially more feasible.</p>

<p>@upbeat</p>

<p>Thanks for that very interesting piece of info :slight_smile: It adds to the long list of Smith woman who did what others thought they could not do. </p>

<p>You are partially right, my parents def wished I had chosen the science path. They are both very scientific people, my father is an engineer and my mother used to teach physics back in China. My mother has already accepted the fact that I’ll never study med (I don’t like the being a doctor part, I only like to analyse e.g. the effect of smoking on health, genes that cause a certain disease, whether fats at the waist is more harmful than fats at the hips etc). My father still can’t quite accept the fact that I’m never going to do science again. Doing science is a easy way out for me because I do get scientific and mathematics concepts very quickly (and thus I get As with half the effort that others put in), but I don’t think I have enough interest to sustain it for long.</p>

<p>The fact that I’m going down the econs/international relations path in a LAC that happens to be single-sex is really a triple-whammy for them.</p>

8

<p>Hi,
Here is some information that you may want to show your parents about Smith. Smith was active in founding the first women’s College in China. It also has had a number of famous Asian and Asian-American alumnae (including the prominent physicist and president of Fudan University, Xie Xide). I have enclosed a transcript of President Reagan’s visit there. Also enclosed are some lists of other notable Asian alumnae as well as a website to the Smith Asian Alumnae Club. </p>

<p>I am an Asian American who currently lives in Singapore so feel free to pm me. My daughter graduated from Smith in 2009 and had a wonderful experience there. She had learning experiences in and out of the classroom, made life-long friends, and forged close connections with profs and other alumnae. She will be attending one of the top graduate schools in her field so Smith prepared her well. She also was able to find two very interesting jobs during this difficult economic time in the U.S. Her job search was assisted by a number of supportive alumnae.</p>

<p>I agree with the Dad that most people in Asia do not know much about LACs. On the other hand, I think when parents recognize some of the well-known alumni/ae from LACs, they have more confidence in sending their children abroad and paying for their tuitions. Asians tend to fixate a lot on prominent research universities which do not always provide the best undergraduate education. Also, they sometimes can be overly practical about the “value” of their education, as they look at the financial return on their investment rather than looking at education as an investment in life itself. Incidentally, Yale has just started a co-operative venture with National University of Singapore to start a liberal arts college in Singapore. It remains to be seen what type of students they will attract; however, based upon my interactions with many students/parents in Asia, it may not be easy to attract the absolute top tier of students. Many parents seem much more fixated on their children obtaining a pre-professional education rather than one in the liberal arts. On the other hand, the government here realizes that in order to foster creativity and unconventional thinking, there needs to be educated citizens who are comfortable working with ideas from very different disciplines rather in narrow fields.</p>

<p>[Smith</a> Asian Alumnae Connection (Smith College, Northampton, MA) Founding Members](<a href=“http://www.smithaac.org/about/founding-members/]Smith”>http://www.smithaac.org/about/founding-members/)</p>

<p>[acccc</a> > Ginling college Records in the Smith College Archives](<a href=“Explore the Divinity School Library | Yale University Library”>Explore the Divinity School Library | Yale University Library)</p>

<p>[Smith</a> News Release](<a href=“http://www.smith.edu/newsoffice/releases/NewsOffice_10-058.html]Smith”>Smith News Release)</p>

<p>[Smith</a> College: Notable Alumnae](<a href=“http://www.smith.edu/notable_list.php]Smith”>http://www.smith.edu/notable_list.php)</p>

<p><a href=“AliExpress - Online Shopping for Popular Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles and More.”>Loading...;

<p>[Remarks</a> and a Question-and-Answer Session With Students at Fudan University in Shanghai, China](<a href=“http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1984/43084d.htm]Remarks”>http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1984/43084d.htm)</p>

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<p>Here is information on Prof. Hoon Eng Khoo of Singapore
<a href=“http://www.asian-university.org/newsAndEvents/documents/HoonEngKhooBio.pdf[/url]”>http://www.asian-university.org/newsAndEvents/documents/HoonEngKhooBio.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Great posts, Pmyen. And from a perspective most of us could not offer. Thank you.</p>

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<p>Upbeat, I also have some strong connections with JHMI.</p>

<p>One of the medical student colleges at the medical school is named after Sabin. Here is a NLM website for her.
<a href=“Changing the Face of Medicine”>Changing the Face of Medicine;

<p>Other early Smith/Hopkins physician pioneers:</p>

<p>Caroline Bedell Thomas who linked hypercholesterolemia with heart disease
[Changing</a> the Face of Medicine | Dr. Caroline Bedell Thomas](<a href=“Changing the Face of Medicine”>Changing the Face of Medicine)</p>

<p>Dorothy (Reed) Mendenhall who did early work on Hodgkins disease
[Changing</a> the Face of Medicine | Dr. Dorothy Reed Mendenhall](<a href=“Changing the Face of Medicine”>Changing the Face of Medicine)</p>

<p>Emma Walker anti-suffragist and birth control advocate
<a href=“http://asteria.fivecolleges.edu/findaids/sophiasmith/mnsss118.html[/url]”>http://asteria.fivecolleges.edu/findaids/sophiasmith/mnsss118.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Elizabeth Hay Embryologist and first female full Professor at Harvard Medical School
<a href=“MTCI - Consultations”>MTCI - Consultations;

<p>Some more recent Smith/Hopkins grads:</p>

<p>Prof. Barbara Migeon renowned geneticist
[Migeon</a>, Barbara R., M.D.](<a href=“http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/geneticmedicine/People/Faculty/migeon.html]Migeon”>http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/geneticmedicine/People/Faculty/migeon.html)</p>

<p>Prof. Susan Bressler July Levy Professor of Opthalmology
[Bressler</a>, Susan B.](<a href=“http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/wilmer/employees/cvs/Bressler_S.html]Bressler”>http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/wilmer/employees/cvs/Bressler_S.html)</p>

<p>Prof. Katherine Hajjar, discoverer of tissue plasminogen activator, a mainstay therapy for coronary artery disease and strokes
[Katherine</a> Amberson Hajjar, M.D. - Biography | Weill Cornell Medical College](<a href=“http://www.med.cornell.edu/research/kahajjar/biography.html]Katherine”>http://www.med.cornell.edu/research/kahajjar/biography.html)</p>

<p>Prof. Barbara Korsch pioneering work on physician/patient communication
<a href=“http://web.me.com/carolineharding/Portrait_of_a_Pioneer/Barbara_Korsch,_M.D..html[/url]”>http://web.me.com/carolineharding/Portrait_of_a_Pioneer/Barbara_Korsch,_M.D..html&lt;/a&gt;
a documentary on her work-<a href=“http://web.me.com/carolineharding/Portrait_of_a_Pioneer/Preview.html”>http://web.me.com/carolineharding/Portrait_of_a_Pioneer/Preview.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Wow, Pmyen! Your first post was so informative and helpful, especially from your perspective. And now you have provided even more links about Smith women and medicine. What a great compilation! Thank you.</p>

13

<p>I hope Yx comes back and finds them.</p>

14

<p>@ pmyen</p>

<p>Thanks!! I will try to show these articles to my parents. They are really not the most receptive of people. I mentioned all the famous alumnis before but they insist that the success of a few people do not represent the potential of everybody who graduates from Smith. Even after I tell them that parents who graduated from ivy institutions gladly send their own children to LACs, my father rebutted by asking why Lee Kwan Yew sent his son to Cambridge, his own alma matar instead of an LAC. They are very screwed in their thinking, there isn’t even a LAC in the UK.</p>

<p>They also don’t get the Yale-NUS tie up. I was thinking that even if the HR people are have no inkling what is Smith, they’ll at least be curious enough about LACs to give me a shot at the interview for a job. They don’t like this kind of uncertainty. I was also thinking applying for jobs at MNCs instead of local companies would give me more opportunities for employment, but they don’t like the chance factor, because it’s still a hit or miss about whether the HR people in MNCs know about LACs.</p>

<p>Another problem is that they are mistaken very easily. When I mentioned to them about the resources vs size of college that I’ll have, they took it as Smith has nothing to offer, that’s why they have the 5 college consortium. When I said that everybody is urging me to go to Smith and only the 2 of them are objecting, they took it as a case of peer pressure.</p>

<p>Even a report by the Ministry of Ed in Singapore listing the benefits of a liberal arts education doesn’t sway them, so yes, they are a VERY had bunch to convince.</p>

15

<p>Seems like your parents have formed opinions on very little facts. As scientists, they should be more open-minded. Skeptical yes but open-minded nevertheless. Having said that, you definitely have your work cut out for you. </p>

<p>Where do your parents want you to go instead of Smith? It’s probably best to make a direct comparison of your options than try to argue about the merits and disadvantages of attending a LAC. </p>

<p>If your other option is NUS, I would argue that you have a once in a lifetime to study abroad, meet students from around the world, live in a new and friendly culture, and get to learn and know from professors who are great teachers. Smith has a billion dollar plus endowment so the expenditure and resources per student would be MUCH higher than NUS. This is then reflected in the quality of faculty, facilities, housing, etc. that can be provided for students. It is one of a handful of LACs that has an endowment larger than most universities in the U.S… </p>

<p>Your parents need to look at what type of opportunities you would have as an undergraduate at Smith vs. NUS, and not compare your potential undergraduate experience with that of a graduate student. I would argue they are two different phases in life… The first enables you to learn about yourself, other people, and the world around you. You also will learn to THINK in new and different ways than you would have imagined. The latter is to gain some professional expertise so they you can build a career. I have let my children make their own college choices. In some ways, it is one of the first important choices they made as young adults. It required them to look within themselves and ask what type of learning and social environment would they thrive in? I would argue that if you are happy and excited about school, it will be much easier to do well. I hope your parents could see that type of reasoning. Perhaps you can use that as a selling point to them.</p>

<p>The rationale for founding a liberal arts college in Singapore is that the government, and others in business and academia, recognize that unilateral or technocratic thinking leads to a very sterile environment. If Singapore is to maintain a competitive edge, it needs citizens who are creative. Just as manufacturing is outsourced to places like China and India, technical work is already moving in that same direction. The only way someone from a first world country can compete with someone similarly educated person from a less developed country (who is willing to work for one third your salary) is to be able to offer something that is substantially different than what can be interchangeably performed. Those who lead with new ideas and solutions to problems will do well in either environment; those who do not, may find themselves outsourced or “retrenched” which is the term commonly used here. I would argue that having a liberal arts education gives you the breadth and foundation to move into new professional areas and seek new opportunities during your lifetime. Someone who only knows one skill, runs the risk of getting replaced. I also think that to have the time, opportunity, even luxury to read great literature, learn about ancient cultures, engage in academic areas outside of your comfort zone-to explore-is a priceless experience. Once you enter the professional world, it becomes very had to have such large blocks of time solely dedicated for learning. </p>

<p>I find it interesting that classical Chinese education in Imperial times focused on poetry, literature, philospphy, music, and art. There was something intrisically beautiful and meaningful about these pursuits apart from their practical value. Learning for its own sake was prized. Somehow that view of learning has been lost by many modern day Asians.</p>

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<p>@pmyen</p>

<p>wow thanks for that very long and insightful post.</p>

<p>My parents just want me to go to a big and famous school, one that will get me a branded cert that every single HR manager will recognize. I however see my higher education as an education, an experience, not a means to get a branded certificate. Of course getting a good paying job is in my immediate plans, but I don’t want to learn for the sake of getting a job. I have been accepted into 8 LACs, but only 3 are affordable (excluding Smith which is just out of the currently affordable range, but it may be possible IF the sing dollar remains strong). The other 3 schools that accepted me are NYU, U of Virginia and College of William and Mary. Excellent schools I admit, but are too big for my liking. I wouldn’t call College of W&M huge, but since it’s a public institution I will have no fin aid. They want me to go to NUS Law. Because I scored extremely well for the GCE A levels, they are insistent that I don’t waste this advantage on some college that’s unknown in Singapore.</p>

<p>I think something on the news a few days ago just made them more skeptical about LACs. Apparently they heard that a lot of small schools in the US are recruiting in Asia because they need the money. My dad also has a deeply entrenched idea that small colleges are all over the US and are not reliable at all. He does not want to believe me at all when I say that many people who more than qualify for HYPMS gladly choose Williams/Amherst over it.</p>

<p>Also, my parents do not buy my reasoning that I would thrive in a small college better. I am extremely introverted, many times I have a lot of ideas in my mind but I just lack the courage to voice out my opinions. I know that I wouldn’t survive in a big school where you can just disappear and nobody cares. They insist that if I really want to change myself, I can do it on will alone regardless of environment. However the problem is not so simple because I’m shy to the extent that unless teachers ask me to speak, I wouldn’t open my mouth at all in class, even if I have the answer to what they’re asking/have an opinion to offer. During group work, I can be the one contributing all the ideas but refuse to go up and present to the class. They just don’t get how terribly timid I am in class, and no matter how I try to illustrate and explain they don’t want to believe it.</p>

<p>Of course I want to use my liberal arts education to my advantage, and bring new ideas and perspectives to the table when I start working. In fact, my goal is either to work in the UN addressing ethics and rights issues or as a prof in a LAC. However, they just want me to settle quietly in Singapore and get a nice stable job. They are first gen China immigrants and know how hard it is trying to integrate into another society, so they don’t want me to go through the same thing. They keep questioning me why I want to break into another society when they’ve spent so much effort bringing me to Singapore. I do appreciate this effort, but Singapore currently does not offer the kind of environment I need, both academically and in my work aspirations.</p>

<p>The big problem is really that they don’t want to listen to anything, no matter how logical my arguments, and how concrete my evidences are.</p>

17

<p>I really sympathize with your situation. I think you know yourself much better than your parents know you. I also understand the first generation issue as my parents immigrated to the U.S. as students and wanted me to have the best possible education. I also chose a LAC over one of the schools you listed. I had to do my job selling it to them but they eventually saw that it was the best choice for me given who I was as an 18 year old. In the end, I think my education shaped my thinking and personal development in ways that might not have occurred had I attended a larger university. I think the real difference, as you point out, is do you want a degree or do you want an education? </p>

<p>A law degree at NUS is hard to turn down if you truly are interested in law. Even then, I would argue that lawyers that know a lot more about other areas (and life) outside the law, make better lawyers. In the U.S., most law students have some work experience before they apply to law school. They are older, more educated, and generally more mature than students who would have entered law school at 18. Additionally, they know what they want to do. I am more familiar with the medical field; however, I have heard of a number of students who dropped out of medical school or later quit their residency (usually passive-aggressively by performing poorly because their heart was not in it) because they were coerced into the profession by their parents. I understand filial piety and the parental expectations that children conform to their wishes in Asia, but ultimately it is your life to live. It is indeed a shame to be doing something that you do not enjoy, despite whatever salary or prestige it may command. </p>

<p>My daughter who graduated from Smith has chosen to pursue her Ph.D. in an area that does not pay very well. I remember she asked me freshman year what did I think. I replied that as long as you love what you do, you will likely do well in it. If you do well in it, you will do fine economically, even though you will not become wealthy. Moreover, you will have the unique privilege of doing what you love in life and creating a meaningful life from that. It may be hard to talk about these things with your parents but certainly worth pondering about them yourself.</p>

<p>By the way, regarding Lee Kuan Yew enrolling his son at Cambridge. Former President Nixon’s daughter, Julie, attended Smith when he was president. </p>

<p>I don’t want to oversell Smith or any particular college but am happy to talk with your parents if you think you are convinced that this is where YOU want to go.</p>

18

<p>Yes that is the differing viewpoint - I want an education and they want a degree, a branded one at that. They think that they are helping me by pushing me into a program recognized by Singapore, but what I need is somewhere which will encourage me to open up, and a large school is simply not going to cut it. They still think that my life is theirs to control, and every time I argue with them they will say that I don’t know anything because I’m still a small child (at the grand age of 19!). Even if I do not know as much as them, I’m sure I know myself better than them and can actually see that the world now does not need skilled workers as much we need creative workers.</p>

<p>I do want to read Law, but only at the graduate level. I think that right now I am too immature and know too little about the world to take full advantage of a legal education. Even with a law degree, I do not intend to go into the field of law permanently but rather use it to my advantage in other jobs that I am more interested in. The reason why I’m going for econs+international relations for undergrad and law for grad is because I think that will complete a whole thinking process and teach me to see things from all angles. My parents however do not see the value of this and would prefer me to study something that can get me a job immediately upon graduation.</p>

<p>Well if only my parents realize that my happiness hinges on my love for what I’m doing rather than what my potential earnings are, I may have a easier time now. They’re more scared of me being poor than I am, even though I’ve assured them that I’ll never ask them for money when I grow up. Btw, my father will just dismiss Pres Nixon’s daughter as an isolated case. That’s what he always does. When something to his disadvantage appears, he dismisses it for one reason or another.</p>

<p>I would be so glad if you are willing to communicate with my parents. They just think that I’m some small kid whining for the American dream (untrue, I have the Geneva dream) and thus don’t want to listen to me. The problem is not with Smith, it is with LACs in general. I’ve already told them that I’ll do anything I can to go to an LAC so I am 100% sure that the only institution of higher ed I’ll go to is an LAC. If I was born 2 years later I’ll have gladly gone to NUS’s own LAC if they so insist that LACs in the US don’t get recognition in Singapore.</p>

19

<p>Hi yxyxyx, I am currently a senior at Smith and sincerely believe that coming to Smith was the best decision I have ever made. I went to high school in Singapore and was also choosing between NUS and Smith. </p>

<p>I got into all five graduate schools (all top schools in my field) I applied to and will be attending my dream PhD program in the fall. Based on my conversation with friends back home, Smith does a much better job preparing you for graduate school as compared to NUS. Feel free to pm me if you would like to know more about my experiences at Smith.</p>

20

<p>@blur</p>

<p>Thanks! Will PM you tonight or tomorrow - going for French lessons now.</p>