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Does recruitment help with admissions? absolutely. But dont underestimate IVY athletes academic or skill level. Way beyond being a captain / all league high school player.
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<p>nightsky, I agree with you. The kids we know who have been recruited athletes at Princeton, for soccer and tennis, were also excellent academic students and they have amazing credentials in their sports. A student who letters in h/s sports might, indeed, be a good athlete but there's a big difference between most h/s sports stars and those who are recruited, and who have the ability to play, at Ivy League colleges.</p>
<p>There's also a HUGE difference between the kids that "just sing in the choir" (or "just play in the band/orchestra") and those that make All-State, All-East, play concertos with renowned symphony orchestras, etc., etc. And yet musicians (and all others of varying types of talent, for that matter) are still held to a higher academic standard than athletes. </p>
<p>Don't get me wrong. I have always respected the talents of athletes very much and I think having athletes at colleges is great because it provides a "balance" of all types of people. I just think that everyone ought to be held to the same standards.</p>
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The "premium" Harvard, Princeton, and their peers place on scholar-athletes has nothing at all to do with a determination that a scholar-athlete is somehow better, more dedicated, more talented, or more worthy than a scholar-musician (or a scholar-debater, scholar-scientist, etc.). It has to do with which type of student generates more revenue for the university. No contest there.
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I think that Yoyo Ma probably gave more to the school when he was at Harvard than the members of the Harvard kids who made it on the 1976 Olympics crew team, or the kids who played football while I was there.</p>
<p>I don't mind that some athletes may have lower SAT scores and GPAs than the average kid at the school - I'd just like to see schools taking more chances with some other talents as well.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to know what Yoyo Ma's GPA and test scores were. His wikipedia entry says he attended Juilliard and Columbia before Harvard. Was he a transfer? </p>
<p>Mathmom, What do you mean by he "gave more" to the school while there, than the Olympic crew team or football team? Did he give concerts every weekend? I don't think he did much for Harvard recently when he gave an interview confessing how much he disliked it there.</p>
<p>Harvard's website says that about 1,500, or 20% of the student body participates in intercollegiate athletics. Most of them must be pretty competitive academically, based on Harvard's published stats on GPAs and test scores.</p>
<p>The star basketball player at our high sch. is headed to Harvard to play bball next year. The Harvard coach (Tommy Amaker) made the trip down here to watch him play against our big cross-town rival last Fri. According to our newspaper, this young man has only made one "B" in his academic career and is ranked in the top twenty (of over 500) students in the senior class. He is also a urm if that matters one way or the other.</p>
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Mathmom, What do you mean by he "gave more" to the school while there, than the Olympic crew team or football team? Did he give concerts every weekend?
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<p>Perhaps not every weekend, but he did play with the orchestra, and he did give concerts. I recall going to one of them.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild, I very much doubt that 25,000 people go to the vast majority of artistic OR sporting events at Harvard. The venues simply aren't large enough. </p>
<p>I do know that Yo Yo Ma has contributed a hell of a lot more to the world, then and now, than the former Harvard student who is my relative by marriage who rowed for Harvard, and later rowed for the USA in the Olympics.</p>
<p>Frankly, I'm shocked that you would respond in that way.</p>
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I do know that Yo Yo Ma has contributed a hell of a lot more to the world, then and now, than the former Harvard student who is my relative by marriage who rowed for Harvard, and later rowed for the USA in the Olympics.
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<p>No disrespect intended to Yoyo Ma, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are more fans of the Olympics than there are of cellists, even those of Ma's calibre. My point being, that obviously the relative value of an athlete versus a musician is a personal thing. You and mathmom are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it is no more "correct" than that of those who prefer football and the Olympics over classical music.</p>
<p>[btw, Harvard stadium seats 30,000+, but I think it only sells out for the H-Y game]</p>
<p>Agreed, no disrepect to Yo Yo Ma but he is a professional entertainer, albeit an elite one as are many elite athletes. I have been just as moved by wonderful moments at my kids' high school orchestra or band events or sporting events as I have been by watching professional events. Lots of heart and passion. Although, as a native Pittsburgher-Go Steelers!
Many of former Harvard crew, Yale basketball(as my brother-in -law),etc. are contributing very much to society in different ways beyond their sport. Of course, not all former college athletes go on to be great in something else but that is no different from life in general. Not all of us are superstars.</p>
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No disrespect intended to Yoyo Ma, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are more fans of the Olympics than there are of cellists, even those of Ma's calibre.
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<p>Nope. Sorry. We're right, you're wrong. We're not talking about Michelle Kwan here, we're talking about a guy who is one of several rowing a crew shell. Even the sports fanatics don't give a $%<em># about that. In fact, if I were taking the position that it DID "matter" as much as football, you sports fans would be very swift to tell me that NO ONE is interested in crew except those who do it, their families, and a bunch of old preppies and other oddballs who used to row themselves. (You know what? *I</em> actually make a habit of watching crew events in the Olympics, on the rare occasions that the network deigns to show them. I also watch equestrian events. And fencing, if they show it. I have no interest in watching pros play basketball. I'm not your typical Olympic fan.)</p>
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Agreed, no disrepect to Yo Yo Ma but he is a professional entertainer, albeit an elite one as are many elite athletes. I have been just as moved by wonderful moments at my kids' high school orchestra or band events or sporting events as I have been by watching professional events.
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<p>So sorry to hear about your hearing loss. :D </p>
<p>No, but seriously, being "moved" by listening to junior play in an out of tune school band in the gym is very sweet. We've all been there.</p>
<p>There is no way that this can compare to the experience of listening to a world-class virtuoso play great music. It's just something different.</p>
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We're not talking about Michelle Kwan here, we're talking about a guy who is one of several rowing a crew shell. Even the sports fanatics don't give a $%*# about that. In fact, if I were taking the position that it DID "matter" as much as football, you sports fans would be very swift to tell me that NO ONE is interested in crew except those who do it, their families, and a bunch of old preppies and other oddballs who used to row themselves.
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<p>Those generalizations sound pretty funny in the context of my neighborhood. Our city has one of the top rowing centers in the country, and regularly sends high school recruits to the top university rowing/crew teams. Our family also has college football season tickets, watches nearly all of the Olympic events <em>except</em> figure skating (holds no appeal), and has never desired to attend a Yoyo Ma concert. :) I guess you can't be right all of the time.</p>
<p>He gave a lot of concerts. He was a class ahead of me and I think I heard him at least a couple of times a year, maybe more. He was friends with a sophomore year roommate. I have no idea what his grades were, but he's always seemed pretty smart to me when I've heard him interviewed. He was very nice to a roommate I had who was having issues and ended up dropping out for a term.</p>
<p>I watch crew occasionally when the olympics are on, but it's incredibly boring to watch! I went to a couple of Harvard Yale football games and one ice hockey game (we beat Yale 3-1 in the last minute of play.) Not much of a sports fan.</p>
<p>I'd just like to see music or other talents valued equally. You know with early writes, and extra scholarships.</p>
<p>"Don't get me wrong. I have always respected the talents of athletes very much and I think having athletes at colleges is great because it provides a "balance" of all types of people. I just think that everyone ought to be held to the same standards."</p>
<p>so, if the 2400 SAT kid cant bench 275 or run a 4.6 40 he's out..right?</p>
<p>I have been to the opera, symphony,etc. many times, have seen world class performers. I am not denying their talent. Please do not deny the talent of athletes or talented high schoolers in the arts or sports- the thrill of the unexpected-sports, high school musicians with ability. I had no involvement with crew but was very taken with it in the Olympics with the dedication of the team-"pull" -very exciting. Teamwork,dedication.</p>
<p>Consolation, Sorry to hear you have not seemed to have access to great music in your schools. I have indeed been "moved" by my son's orchestra in his public school. They have won national competitions . My son is only 1st chair in second violin but I am proud of him nonetheless. The orchestra is great and his teacher is the most dedicated I have seen. Sorry if your experiences have not been as positive. I do not need to see Yo Yo Ma in person to be moved to tears.</p>